2011.01.11 Info RE: Caylee's Second Autopsy

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Georgia PI said:
You have to remember that it is the Defenses job to try and discredit any and everything that the Prosecutors have; I bet you see and hear a lot more crap before the court date.

Phil Spector Trial ~ Dr Werner Spitz Flips out on the Stand ~ Question of Money Slows Phil Spector Trial

http://losangelestrials.blogspot.com/2009/02/phil-spector-trial-dr-werner-spitz.html

Phil Spector was 'splattered with blood', Dr Werner Spitz, who was appearing for the defence, rejected suggestions that lots of blood landed on Spector.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1558690/Phil-Spector-was-splattered-with-blood.html

Forensic Expert In Spector Case Points At 'Holes' In Prosecution's 'Puzzle'

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.ns...oints-at-holes-in-prosecutions-puzzle_1038780

Much more, just Google his name
Click to expand...

Also during the Spector trial iirc he was asked to leave the courtroom so a state expert could testify but instead he went to the witness stand and had to be asked again to leave... the media called him Mr. Magoo, lol.
:D
 
Is that protocol for a skull that would likely contain human matter versus a completely skeletonized skull from a swamp that could be inspected via light/camera and flushed with saline?

IMO. I *think* Dr. G was being considerate to Caylee keeping the skull intact, since there were other means to examine without needlessly compromising its integrity.

Thoughts?
 
Could the protocol be determined by the suspected type of crime against the victim such as if it were a suspected gun shot they would be required to open up the skull, remove the brain the track the path of the bullet? Since all tissue was gone what would be the point of opening up the skull? I think it was Kronk who described seeing what he believed was her top of her skull which was visible from the bag floating in the water in August. Do I have that right? But I don't recall any mention from Dr. G about how her body was lying during the time she was in the woods because no one knows. Wouldn't it be speculation? And if Dr. G washed the skull as she reported is it possible that any dirt/soil residue remaining could have ended on the left side after the testing?

Do you think there was any chance that the good Dr. Spitz even bothered to call Dr. G and ask her??? I just have a hard time understanding why this would point to the body not being there and placed there after KC went back to jail. I'd really like to see Dr. Spitz' report. jmo
 
cyberborg said:
Is that protocol for a skull that would likely contain human matter versus a completely skeletonized skull from a swamp that could be inspected via light/camera and flushed with saline?

IMO. I *think* Dr. G was being considerate to Caylee keeping the skull intact, since there were other means to examine without needlessly compromising its integrity.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

That certainly seems logical to me. Since it seems one could see into the cavity, I can't imagine why it would be considered necessary protocol to "open" it any further. Now if it had still been filled with brain matter and tissue I could understand the need to open it. I'm hoping there are separate protocols for varying conditions of the skull. But IDK.

I hope joypath will be by here soon. :wave:
 
So we haven't got a full report from any of the experts yet only what is in this motion yes? Is he still non-compliant or am I missing a PDF somewhere.....*confused as.
 
YellowSubmarine said:
Really?!? REALLY?!?!? First of all, to say Dr. G did an unprofessional job is laughable and desperate, at best.

Second, with the probable movement of her body by the flooding and the animals (oh, how torturous it is to type those words), who's to say where mud *should* be?

And then this --



Come on, you've got to be kidding me! So, JB, you not getting the appropriate materials turned over to the court/state by the deadline was a misunderstanding on their part????? He's going to blame his refusal to comply on the court? I mean, I can't OMG any louder!!! They have GOT to stop this idiot!
Click to expand...

No frikkin way! I did not see this yet, he actually referred to his sanctions in this manner? I really, really wanna refer to him as a female cleansing product right now.
Does he expect any judge, Perry or appelate, to appreciate this tactic of disrespect towards their rulings? Don't even know if it's a tactic, I just think he was so embarrassed, like a child he HAD to have the last word in the matter.

At any rate, I do not recall the state's witnesses indicating that Caylee was upright. It has been a while since I have read Dr. G's report, so I could be wrong. But I do recall us having a discussion here as to how she was situated in the garbage bag, and I don't recall her stating that Caylee's skull had to be eyes-facing-the-sky.

The defense also has to remember that the jurors are human, in the sense that they will only be able to take so much of JB attacking people's reputations before they just go into "the defense is bitter and has no case" auto-pilot mode. Maybe some thoughtfulness would help. In California vs. O.J. Simpson, I believe part of the problem was that the prosecution came off as hardened and was too quick to call all of the forensics bogus, without thoughtfully dismantling the defense's forensic findings. It is a touchy thing, personalities and the way that things are countered do matter.
 
sleutherontheside said:
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/getdoc/39299047-da62-43d5-8101-8cea776d10b3/MEC-2006-Practice-Guidelines-pdf.aspx

PRACTICE GUIDELINES
FOR
FLORIDA MEDICAL EXAMINERS
2006
Click to expand...

Thanks. So to me this talks to ...

Bones visible after removal of the viscera (skull, vertebral bodies, clavicles, sternum, ribs, and pelvis) should be inspected for trauma or deformity.
Click to expand...

I guess that needs to be accomplished on both sides but there is nothing on how, i.e., whether visual inspection via light/camera is acceptable? Today we have cameras that can go into and examine voids with clarity ... so is this an old versus new school thing?
 
sleutherontheside said:
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/getdoc/39299047-da62-43d5-8101-8cea776d10b3/MEC-2006-Practice-Guidelines-pdf.aspx

PRACTICE GUIDELINES
FOR
FLORIDA MEDICAL EXAMINERS
2006

http://www.forensicdentistryonline.org/Forensic_pages_1/ident_guidelines.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for finding this sleutherontheside :seeya:
To take this a step further I found Spitz's son that was NG in January of 2009 to which he states: Well, that it entails a naked eye exam of all of the bones. You`re going to want to x-ray all the bones. You`re going to want to photograph the bones. You want to -- going to want to recreate the skeleton to see what, if any, bones are missing so that you know if you have a complete skeleton or whether some bones are no longer present, look for evidence . http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0901/08/ng.01.html more at link. mo

I hope it was alright to post this link. If not mods you can delete. SIA
 
LCoastMom said:
BBM - I hope this information, IF presented to a jury has the same effect on them that it had on me - that little Caylee wasn't desecrated enough by her mother with a roll of duct tape and being left in a swamp - for this person to come along and crack open her little skull, to spew nonsense just pizzed me off all over again.
Go ahead defense give it your best shot - you just can't help but make your client look worse and worse.
Click to expand...

I think it will definitely affect the jury & imo they will hear about it because it's Spitz's (lame) rebuttal to Dr. G's findings.... I was horrified when I read he did this to Caylee's skull because it was completely unnecessary and I think he’ll have a hard time explaining why he did it since he had access to the inside of her skull with the duct tape no longer holding her jaw in place. And these weren't short little pieces of duct tape to keep Caylee quiet temporarily, the long pieces wrapped around her head were 9.75", 7.5" and 8.75", which will be discussed when Spitz testifies. Ha ha, Jose, another expert with nothing for your client but more damning evidence. moo.
 
http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/26471656/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Casey Anthony's defense team claims it has evidence that may support the theory Caylee Anthony's remains were moved to the spot on Suburban Drive where they were found.

A defense expert also claims that medical examiner Jan Garavaglia didn't follow proper protocols in her autopsy.

According to new court documents, when the defense did its second autopsy, its expert opened Caylee's skull and discovered evidence that contradicts the state's theory about where the remains were discovered.

The defense claims that Dr. Warner Spitz, who did the second autopsy, found a deposit of dirt on the inner left side of the skull. He said that could indicate the remains had been laid on the left side and not in a straightforward or upright position as investigators claimed.

More at link

Somebody ought to clue the defense and Dr. Spitz in on the facts :floorlaugh:
 
I think it would probably be protocol to open the cranium during an autopsy. However, I don't know if the examination by both Dr. G and Spitz could be termed an autopsy - wasn't it more of an examination of skeletal remains? If there was nothing in the skull to remove, which could easily be determined by x-rays, what would be the reason for removing the top of the skull? What purpose would it serve?
 
ExpectingUnicorns said:
" 'Now you've called into question a large part of the state's case,' said veteran defense attorney and prosecutor Jeff Deen, who is not affiliated with the case.
Deen said Spitz' findings are also significant because he claims the medical examiner didn't open the skull during the first autopsy, which would be against protocol."

http://www.wesh.com/r/26471656/detail.html

Joypath, would this be "against protocol?" And if so, how bad could that be?
Click to expand...

-------------
From what I've seen on tv. the skull is opened by removing the top.Why would this be necessary on Caylee,she had no neck just the opening.Someone is Fruitloops.She was examiined for trauma and any damage to bones,only a few marks from the ANIMALS. happy day B
 
Leila said:
I don't think it's going to possible to know with certainty that the remains were laid on the left side or upright. Tropical storm Fay hit the area on August 21, 2008 and before it was over dumped a lot of rain. I think it's likely the remains were carried with the current and motion of the water, and came to rest where they were found after the water subsided.
Click to expand...

YellowSubmarine said:
Yeah, my guess is JB wrote that up on behalf of Dr. Spitz . . . . He's hoping Dr. Spitz will just "go with it". We all just have to hope the good Dr keeps his Oath of Ethics in mind.
Click to expand...

Aedrys said:
Wow, this motion must be horrible. An entire post from Joypath and not one smiley. OUCH!
Click to expand...

---------------
Hi Leila,as I remember the ME.office also took leaves,plant growth and dirt from the crime scene.This would be good for comparision.TM. in his first speech after Caylee was found said her remains could have floated from another location after all the rain. I came on here because if I wait to find the right spot,I'll forget what to write~but I do remember this all happening.:seeya:
 
Well, quite clearly, the defence have nothing else do they? lol. :floorlaugh:

The best thing is, I imagine that Casey is sat in her cell, thinking her fabulous lawyer is going to get her off, not having any idea in the slightest, that this clown is writing her death sentence.
 
http://detnews.com/article/20070314/METRO/703140423/Macomb-s-next-generation-of-crime-fighters

Spitz's father, Werner Spitz, is a nationally respected pathologist who served as Macomb's medical examiner from 1988 until his retirement in 2004. He was involved in evaluating autopsies for President Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr. and JonBonet Ramsey.

"He never really gave me any advice on how to deal with the national media," Daniel Spitz said. "But I picked up things along the way by watching him. You might do a few extra things in an autopsy because of the scrutiny, not that it's going to make a big difference in the actual autopsy, but you just want to make sure every base is covered."


There we have it. Dr. G. was not lax in her protocol.....Spitz just likes to cater to the media.
 
O/T...please bear with me.After reading these pages
and realizing the defense has no regard for Caylees
remains,I'd like to make a wish.If a Spirit has ever made itself
known/felt,I pray to God Caylee does during this trial.
Little Sweetheart,make yourself known to all.xox


PS.my son has been seen in my home.
 
Nore said:
-------------
From what I've seen on tv. the skull is opened by removing the top.Why would this be necessary on Caylee,she had no neck just the opening.Someone is Fruitloops.She was examiined for trauma and any damage to bones,only a few marks from the ANIMALS. happy day B
Click to expand...

The cranium from below

Right - why saw it open when you can *look in the natural opening??*
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 58 more.
Total: 2,486 (members: 59, guests: 2,427)

Online statistics

Members online
59
Guests online
2,427
Total visitors
2,486
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
602,011
Messages
18,133,240
Members
231,206
Latest member
habitsofwaste
Back
Top