2011.02.19 - Desiree puts on the pressure in Roseburg

[gardeness]

This case breaks my heart, it's just so hard for me to come back to it. I want him home, or at least a little closure on where he is.

sbm

Me, too.

 

[pinktoes]

Hi Pinktoes, I would agree with you except if she is psychotic as Pat Brown has intimated she could be, she might feel she did nothing wrong. Especially if someone else hid the body.

Then all the more reason to run off at the mouth. Alcohol is a disinhibitor for everyone.

I'm a recently retired clinical psychologist and I don't do diagnoses in absentia. That's why I can't draw conclusions from notions about what sort of mental disorder someone I've never even met may have. Further complication for me is that I'd want to verify the sources of all her reported behavior. And interview her family and friends to see her behavior in an interrelated context.

But that's just how a clinician works.

 

[stmarysmead]

Then all the more reason to run off at the mouth. Alcohol is a disinhibitor for everyone.

I'm a recently retired clinical psychologist and I don't do diagnoses in absentia. That's why I can't draw conclusions from notions about what sort of mental disorder someone I've never even met may have. Further complication for me is that I'd want to verify the sources of all her reported behavior. And interview her family and friends to see her behavior in an interrelated context.

But that's just how a clinician works.

Yes, that is how a clinician works. And those of us who follow these trials observe that one "clinician" hired by the defense can have the absolute opposite conclusion as a "clinician" hired by the prosecution.

That seems to indicate that though their clinical "methods" may have some similarity, their conclusions can be contradictory. Therefore the reliability of the results or diagnoses seem to be heavily subjective.

Not much different, in the end, from the subjective views of a layman observing troubling behavior. Perhaps we get there differently...not...as a clinician might ...but we know when something or someone is...off.

And like those clinicians whose opinions vary with whomever signs the paycheck...viewpoints can vary.

But I agree, we cannot diagnose from afar. But I do not think it too far off the mark to say that a woman who knows she is being observed by LE...to the point she buys batphones...who will then send sexts to a new acquaintance...and go out "visiting" against her attorneys instructions...KNOWING SHE IS UNDER SURVEILLANCE...has some..."issues." A woman who writes of her hate for a small child who loves her...a child she has raised from infancy..has some "issues." A woman who will forfeit her infant child...just as an insurance policy...when (as some say) there is not one whit of credible evidence against her...has "issues." A woman who will go out to bars...when she is AT THAT TIME involved in divorce proceedings wherein her husband says she has problems with alcohol...has "issues."

The technical term for such issues ...well, that is open to debate.

 

[TxLady2]

She's handing out Halloween candy? In Feb.??

 

[stmarysmead]

She's handing out Halloween candy? In Feb.??

I think Desiree was giving an historical perspective. If you listen to the actual tape...she is not stipulating that all these things have JUST occurred.

For example, she mentions Terri celebrating Christmas. There is no attending accusation that the Halloween candy, Christmas celebrating, and bar-hopping had JUST happened in February.

 

[froginTtown]

I am totally for Desiree on her mission in Roseburg..
and I agree that the only time that TMH reacts, is when the public confronts her about Kyron...
She is obviously trying to ignore the past eight months as though nothing has happened, and attempting to continue on with her life...(example. the sexting)
Her silence speaks volumes to me... especially to give up all contact with her baby daughter because she knows she could incriminate herself...
She does not deserve to continue on with her life as far as I am concerned...!!
She needs to be locked up!!! and I think it will be soon...
I'm also hoping that her lawyer gets fed up with her antics, and drops her as a client..

 

[cluciano63]

I'm also hoping that her lawyer gets fed up with her antics, and drops her as a client..[/QUOTE]

But what antics? I've not heard of any actual, specific sightings of TH doing anything at all, anywhere.

 

[stmarysmead]

I'm also hoping that her lawyer gets fed up with her antics, and drops her as a client..

But what antics? I've not heard of any actual, specific sightings of TH doing anything at all, anywhere.[/QUOTE]




Do you think that you or I or any Internet sleuther have followed Terri's "sightings", movements, and activities to the extent a grieving Mother who believes Terri responsible has done?

And a grieving Mother...married to LE?

I can't say I have been that vigilant. Nor would I claim to have a grieving Mother's commitment to the task.

 

[pinktoes]

A clinician is not the same thing as an expert witness testifying at trial. An expert witness would not have the same breadth nor depth of opportunity as a clinician would. For instance, generally an expert witness (of any professional or technical stripe) only has the opportunity to interview the subject. That's old school. It is well understood now that an individual's behavior happens within the context of their family, school/workplace, friends and community. And that's the context within which the individual is understood, and a "label" applied.

And that's why an expert witness' testimony is rarely as reliable, or as consistent from expert to expert, as is a clinician's. Well understood that it's influenced by who's signing the check.

Add to that, that Pat Brown has never even interviewed Terri ONCE, as an expert witness would, and I say Pat Brown's opinion is no better than yours--or mine.

Just trying to clear away some distractions, like opinions that should not really be the basis for any judgments in this situation.

 

[stmarysmead]

A clinician is not the same thing as an expert witness testifying at trial. An expert witness would not have the same breadth nor depth of opportunity as a clinician would. For instance, generally an expert witness (of any professional or technical stripe) only has the opportunity to interview the subject. That's old school. It is well understood now that an individual's behavior happens within the context of their family, school/workplace, friends and community. And that's the context within which the individual is understood, and a "label" applied.

And that's why an expert witness' testimony is rarely as reliable, or as consistent from expert to expert, as is a clinician's. Well understood that it's influenced by who's signing the check.

Add to that, that Pat Brown has never even interviewed Terri ONCE, as an expert witness would, and I say Pat Brown's opinion is no better than yours--or mine.

Just trying to clear away some distractions, like opinions that should not really be the basis for any judgments in this situation.

Absolutely understood. And thank you.

But then we are agreed that until someone on this Board has those opportunities you mention, we all are "equal" in our opinions. My point was that... from the limited vantage point of Terri's behavior that we have...though no professional diagnosis or "label" can be accurately applied...we each may employ our own common sense and our own experiences, in making our own judgment call about the peculiarities or lack thereof...of Terri's behavior.

When my dog vomits repeatedly, it may take a Vet to accurately say why...but I can confidently say..he is "sick."

Thank you for your clarification.

 

[pinktoes]

I absolutely agree with your point. We're all on equal footing.

 

[froginTtown]

I'm also hoping that her lawyer gets fed up with her antics, and drops her as a client..

But what antics? I've not heard of any actual, specific sightings of TH doing anything at all, anywhere.[/QUOTE]

Her visiting the bars while Kaine is claiming that she has problems with drinking... and needs to seek counseling/evaluation concerning visitations with her daughter... With her going to the bars, it strenghtens Kaines claims..and probably will play a part in the divorce proceedings... as well as the sexting to Kaines friend from High School after Kaine left with his daughter and put a RO on her... just days after they left..!!

 

[kimmera]

But what antics? I've not heard of any actual, specific sightings of TH doing anything at all, anywhere.

Do you think that you or I or any Internet sleuther have followed Terri's "sightings", movements, and activities to the extent a grieving Mother who believes Terri responsible has done?

And a grieving Mother...married to LE?

I can't say I have been that vigilant. Nor would I claim to have a grieving Mother's commitment to the task.

BBM~

You took the words right out of my mouth, SMM! Kyron is LE's child. If anyone thinks that TH can so much as pass gas crooked in Roseburg without DY and TY knowing about it, well...I have some swamp land to sell you. She is being watched very closely...I am confident of that. I am so happy that DY has taken this step, to let TH know that they will not stop seeking justice for Kyron. I admire her courage, dignity and restraint. :rocker:

 

[DreamyEye]

If I were completely innocent of disappearing my stepson, I would realize how inappropriate it is to be running around to bars while other adults in the family grieve, do pressers, and organize groups.

If I were dependent on my parents for a roof over my head and food, I would not disrespect them by spending money at bars and making a show of entertaining myself. Sure, everyone needs a little entertainment. There are ways of seeing to that within the privacy of the home out of respect for one's loved ones--and demonstrating some grasp of what one has put other people through.

I don't know if you can "diagnose" anything from Terri's behavior, but any context I can see it in says "selfishness" to me.

 

[Chablis]

A clinician is not the same thing as an expert witness testifying at trial. An expert witness would not have the same breadth nor depth of opportunity as a clinician would. For instance, generally an expert witness (of any professional or technical stripe) only has the opportunity to interview the subject. That's old school. It is well understood now that an individual's behavior happens within the context of their family, school/workplace, friends and community. And that's the context within which the individual is understood, and a "label" applied.

And that's why an expert witness' testimony is rarely as reliable, or as consistent from expert to expert, as is a clinician's. Well understood that it's influenced by who's signing the check.

Add to that, that Pat Brown has never even interviewed Terri ONCE, as an expert witness would, and I say Pat Brown's opinion is no better than yours--or mine.

Just trying to clear away some distractions, like opinions that should not really be the basis for any judgments in this situation.

I keep it simple and trust my gut instincts, I go by the if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck theory, I keep it real.

 

[scandi]

A clinician is not the same thing as an expert witness testifying at trial. An expert witness would not have the same breadth nor depth of opportunity as a clinician would. For instance, generally an expert witness (of any professional or technical stripe) only has the opportunity to interview the subject. That's old school. It is well understood now that an individual's behavior happens within the context of their family, school/workplace, friends and community. And that's the context within which the individual is understood, and a "label" applied.

And that's why an expert witness' testimony is rarely as reliable, or as consistent from expert to expert, as is a clinician's. Well understood that it's influenced by who's signing the check.

Add to that, that Pat Brown has never even interviewed Terri ONCE, as an expert witness would, and I say Pat Brown's opinion is no better than yours--or mine.

Just trying to clear away some distractions, like opinions that should not really be the basis for any judgments in this situation.

I appreciate your thoughts Pinktoese.

With Pat Brown, I do think she has enough experience and studied knowledge to know how a criminal will likely act in a given situation and I think that is important to investigating.

We have never been given a FBI profile of either the abductor/killer or possible accopmplice. But I can betcha they knew very soon what kind of person was most likely to do this, how they would choose an accomplice, what kind of scenario would have taken place with the victim, methods they would probably use to deal with the victim, etc.

I don't think they are judgement calls but standard expectations with the variables plugged in. Realizing now that within 2 days she did not go to a scheduled show where he was to perform and that she was placed 11 miles east of the school where they are now searching, it seems LE were probably right on track in their zoning in on her like they did.

 

[tiredblondy]

I keep it simple and trust my gut instincts, I go by the if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck theory, I keep it real.

I agree!

 

[jadejazzkayla]

If I were completely innocent of disappearing my stepson, I would realize how inappropriate it is to be running around to bars while other adults in the family grieve, do pressers, and organize groups.

If I were dependent on my parents for a roof over my head and food, I would not disrespect them by spending money at bars and making a show of entertaining myself. Sure, everyone needs a little entertainment. There are ways of seeing to that within the privacy of the home out of respect for one's loved ones--and demonstrating some grasp of what one has put other people through.

I don't know if you can "diagnose" anything from Terri's behavior, but any context I can see it in says "selfishness" to me.

I believe she is acting like anyone of us may. an innocent person's actions.

 

[Kimster]

I see we're back to being off topic. I'm closing the thread as it seems we've sleuthed this topic out.

 

[Kimster]

"
Social networking helped organizers put together the vigil held within sight of Terri's parents' home. One person even traveled all the way from Longview, Washington, to show support. Organizers said they have also seen an outpouring of support from around the world."<snipped>

http://www.katu.com/news/local/117464839.html