Sistah Sleuth
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Wow....
That is beyond disgusting to murder your child just to spite your mother. To say that ICA's character really sucks is just a massive understatement.
2011.03.07 Motion Hearing - *Updated* Key Ruling In! See Motions Thread (sticky)
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Wow....
That is beyond disgusting to murder your child just to spite your mother. To say that ICA's character really sucks is just a massive understatement.
doogiesgirl
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You know what....JB & KC really are suited to each other. I didn't watch the early March hearings live, so I've been watching them on tape. And the GA, CA, LA & YM testimony I've seen a couple times each....and you know what stood out to me? It seems like JB and KC used this opportunity at having her parents & brother as well as YM on the stand, to try and embarrass them or to settle some imaginary score that exists in JB's as well as KC's head. It was like they didn't even care that they were not convincing the judge of a legal argument. They were there to make these people pay, to give the thumb screw to each of them so to speak- for not trusting JB & KC early on in the case and for not doing what JB & KC instructed them to do (you know lie, lie, lie, cover up cover up cover up, and just go home and zip it in JB's words). Those hearings, being able to put these people on the witness stand and question them---that was all to try and punish these people who dared question JB's ability and dared to question KC's scheme.
Seriously....they both just squandered a golden opportunity for KC's case to gain some legal ground. I think he may just be as narcissistic as she is.
MOO
Meemom
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respectfully snipped
I think you hit the nail on the head....or more so in JB's case.....he treated the hearings as an opportunity to promote himself more than argue the law. I feel he's more concerned for his own promotion than KC's life.
Just glad HHBP is such a calm, scholarly judge....his rulings were spot on!:woohoo::woohoo:
jmo
Chiquita71
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Here are some snipped portions of His Honor Judge Perry's order. :tyou: :takeabow:
With respect to the oral and written statements provided by the defendant to Law enforcement officers responding to the "911" calls, the court finds that the defendant was not in custody for Miranda purposes. Indeed, the record reflects that the defendant was not considered a suspect by police, but a witness.
(skip)
The Ramirez test, the court noted that the police did not summon the defendant for questioning, but instead, the defendant summoned the police for assistance. When the police arrived, the defendant volunteered that his friend had been shot by someone he did not know. The detective was simply following up on what the defendant had already volunteered.
(skip)
Applying the preceding authority to the case at bar yields the same results. The officers responding to Cindy's "911" calls were summoned to the Anthony home, they did not summon the defendant.
(skip)
During the hearing, Cindy and George Anthony testified that they were informed by law enforcement the defendant "would not be coming back" however, this assertion was disputed by detectives. Nevertheless, both Cindy and George agree this statement was not made in the defendants presence. Therefore, it has no bearing on the court's custody analysis. In determining whether a suspect was subjected to interrogation for Miranda purposes, the focus of the inquiry is primarily upon the perceptions of the suspect, rather than the intent of the police officers.
(skip)
Secondly, the purpose of the interrogation was to determine why the defendant had lied to detectives regarding her employment. The detectives were initially sent there by the defendant to obtain information regarding Zenaida, when the defendant told detectives she was an employee of Universal, in order to find Caylee. Because the purpose of the questioning of the defendant was to verify what she had already told the officers and to obtain additional information to assist them in their investigation, this factor weights against a finding of custody.
(skip)
As to the manner of interrogation, the court finds the officers did not subject the defendant to force. There is no indication the officers ever touched her. She was never handcuffed, and was never locked in the room. While it is true that the detectives shut he door, they informed her this was for privacy, not for confinement. A reasonable person would certainly prefer this discussion with police, which included the embarrassing details of the defendant's lies, to take place away from the prying eyes of the public. A reasonable person would also understand that the detectives indication that the door was unlocked to mean that she was free to leave the room and terminate the interview.
(skip)
And while it is also true that the detectives seemed to become frustrated with the defendant for leading them on a "wild goose chase" the overall tone of the conversation was not accusational. It is clear that this frustration emanated from the detectives desire to find Caylee and over the wasted time investigating bad information given to them by the defendant.
(skip)
While it is true the defendant was confronted regarding her lies to the detectives, she was not accused of a serious crime, such as murder.
(skip)
Critically, detectives never once confronted the defendant with the physical evidence known to them at the time i.e., the smell emanating from the trunk of her car, which had been likened to that of a "dead body." Because the detectives never stressed any specific evidence that implicated the defendant in any crime like murder, the court finds the extent to which she was confronted with evidence of guilt to be minimal at least.
(skip)
Because the defendant agreed from the outset of the interview that she was there of her own volition, the court finds that a reasonable person would understand that they were free to leave at any time.
(end snip)
Here I was ready to see things the way the defense was laying it out. I figured they had an argument, it seemed the ways of the Anthonys and the team had a foot hold in this reality...
But, now it is a bright and sunny day and all is right with the world. I was looking for wisdom, common sense, I was looking for the humanity in the court system during this case. And here it is. This makes sense to me. It is the truth, that is why!
I feel like the spin put out by the defense, has oozed into me. I feel numb in a way...but in a good way. Sorry to sound goofy...I am just amazed at this order by the judge. Awestruck. I have to process this...
Oh and :rocker: :woohoo: by the way.
PS: I thought it should matter that THEY(the Anthonys)were the ones to call the police. They called them, yeah-it should matter! Another :great: because the law makes (human)sense.
:websleuther:
With respect to the oral and written statements provided by the defendant to Law enforcement officers responding to the "911" calls, the court finds that the defendant was not in custody for Miranda purposes. Indeed, the record reflects that the defendant was not considered a suspect by police, but a witness.
(skip)
The Ramirez test, the court noted that the police did not summon the defendant for questioning, but instead, the defendant summoned the police for assistance. When the police arrived, the defendant volunteered that his friend had been shot by someone he did not know. The detective was simply following up on what the defendant had already volunteered.
(skip)
Applying the preceding authority to the case at bar yields the same results. The officers responding to Cindy's "911" calls were summoned to the Anthony home, they did not summon the defendant.
(skip)
During the hearing, Cindy and George Anthony testified that they were informed by law enforcement the defendant "would not be coming back" however, this assertion was disputed by detectives. Nevertheless, both Cindy and George agree this statement was not made in the defendants presence. Therefore, it has no bearing on the court's custody analysis. In determining whether a suspect was subjected to interrogation for Miranda purposes, the focus of the inquiry is primarily upon the perceptions of the suspect, rather than the intent of the police officers.
(skip)
Secondly, the purpose of the interrogation was to determine why the defendant had lied to detectives regarding her employment. The detectives were initially sent there by the defendant to obtain information regarding Zenaida, when the defendant told detectives she was an employee of Universal, in order to find Caylee. Because the purpose of the questioning of the defendant was to verify what she had already told the officers and to obtain additional information to assist them in their investigation, this factor weights against a finding of custody.
(skip)
As to the manner of interrogation, the court finds the officers did not subject the defendant to force. There is no indication the officers ever touched her. She was never handcuffed, and was never locked in the room. While it is true that the detectives shut he door, they informed her this was for privacy, not for confinement. A reasonable person would certainly prefer this discussion with police, which included the embarrassing details of the defendant's lies, to take place away from the prying eyes of the public. A reasonable person would also understand that the detectives indication that the door was unlocked to mean that she was free to leave the room and terminate the interview.
(skip)
And while it is also true that the detectives seemed to become frustrated with the defendant for leading them on a "wild goose chase" the overall tone of the conversation was not accusational. It is clear that this frustration emanated from the detectives desire to find Caylee and over the wasted time investigating bad information given to them by the defendant.
(skip)
While it is true the defendant was confronted regarding her lies to the detectives, she was not accused of a serious crime, such as murder.
(skip)
Critically, detectives never once confronted the defendant with the physical evidence known to them at the time i.e., the smell emanating from the trunk of her car, which had been likened to that of a "dead body." Because the detectives never stressed any specific evidence that implicated the defendant in any crime like murder, the court finds the extent to which she was confronted with evidence of guilt to be minimal at least.
(skip)
Because the defendant agreed from the outset of the interview that she was there of her own volition, the court finds that a reasonable person would understand that they were free to leave at any time.
(end snip)
Here I was ready to see things the way the defense was laying it out. I figured they had an argument, it seemed the ways of the Anthonys and the team had a foot hold in this reality...
But, now it is a bright and sunny day and all is right with the world. I was looking for wisdom, common sense, I was looking for the humanity in the court system during this case. And here it is. This makes sense to me. It is the truth, that is why!
I feel like the spin put out by the defense, has oozed into me. I feel numb in a way...but in a good way. Sorry to sound goofy...I am just amazed at this order by the judge. Awestruck. I have to process this...
Oh and :rocker: :woohoo: by the way.
PS: I thought it should matter that THEY(the Anthonys)were the ones to call the police. They called them, yeah-it should matter! Another :great: because the law makes (human)sense.
:websleuther:
Chiquita71
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RespectfullyQuoted doogiesgirl & belle :wave:
BBM
Thank you both and I totally agree with all you have said in your posts.
During the hearings I have little actual knowledge of what is being said and why, its over my head, as many can understand. So, I have to go by what I think is being argued, and I thought it sounded like Jose was trying to get back at law enforcement for not liking him.
It was like every question he asked George and Cindy led to them saying that law enforcement had said they "did not like him, did not trust him, how they did not like Casey's lawyer" it seemed the main focus of the questioning. Other people made comments to the same effect, so I felt I was not completely making it up.
Well, I never expected those who are guilty or liars or ego maniacs to do what is right, but I was worried because of the deceit that truth would be obscured. But today(yesterday)it has not been. I am not against Casey Anthony but I am against lies. And I am against the killing of innocent children.
I too, enjoyed that Judge Perry included Caylee's name. This was the first time during this case I can see that this is about Caylee and what happened to her. When I was caught in the spin :hypno: I still thought to myself, "even if they get only information in they want all that will do to any thinking jury is they will say, "so what did happen to the little girl?"
The defense(Cindy, George, Casey and Jose/CM)have a fatal flaw and that is they are not on the side of Caylee.
:twocents:
doogiesgirl
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doogiesgirl
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ABBM
Nor on the side of TRUTH.
And TRUTH will always have providence behind it.
MOO
LolaMoon08
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During the hearings, Jose did make it about himself and what other people thought of him. I found it disgustingly funny. Something that I really shouldn't laugh about, but I just couldn't help it. Really, Jose? This trial is not about you, and what people thought about you... it is about the murder of a little girl... Caylee Marie Anthony. I really hope he doesn't do this at the trial though. Can you imagine?
I can not wait to read John Allen's deposition. He isn't as nice as Yuri Melich from the excerpts I have seen... which I love!! He really doesn't seem to have a problem biting back... and hard... when it comes to Jose's antics. LDB even jumped in when Jose says "You would think there would be some professional coutesy? and LDA says "There is." Jose says "Just not in this case? and LDB says "Right." :floorlaugh:
You can tell LDB does not take it well when members of LE are being attacked or treated disrespectfully. Love her!!
Jose does start to question JA about himself too.. wants to know if he is under investigation... if LE told LB to lie and say the defense put her up to this false document. Can't wait to read the whole thing.
I can not wait to read John Allen's deposition. He isn't as nice as Yuri Melich from the excerpts I have seen... which I love!! He really doesn't seem to have a problem biting back... and hard... when it comes to Jose's antics. LDB even jumped in when Jose says "You would think there would be some professional coutesy? and LDA says "There is." Jose says "Just not in this case? and LDB says "Right." :floorlaugh:
You can tell LDB does not take it well when members of LE are being attacked or treated disrespectfully. Love her!!
Jose does start to question JA about himself too.. wants to know if he is under investigation... if LE told LB to lie and say the defense put her up to this false document. Can't wait to read the whole thing.
TotallyObsessed
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BBM: That was the first time I got a co-worker (an attorney) to listen to the hearings with me. She kept saying "Why is he talking about himself?" It was the very first thing she ever picked up on.
So ICA: you are a spiteful #itch. You really don't deserve to be sitting in a private cell. Today is your birthday. Hope it's a gas! Hope your dinner includes lots of chili beans, and definitely no Beano.
Cheers for the Prosecution, jeers for the Dense. HHBP - you rock.
Cheers for the Prosecution, jeers for the Dense. HHBP - you rock.
strach304
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I can't think of one single defense lawyer that has ever been liked or popular when it involves such horrific crimes against children. JB decided all by himself to be a criminal defense attorney so he needs to grow up accept what comes with it.
faefrost
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Thank you, that is an absolutely brilliant take on both KC and JB. They are both unbelievable narcisists who are driven and focused on themselves to the detriment of all around them. JB's questions to the A's dwelling and assaulting them on their feelings for him. His recently revealed questioning of the LE officer under oath as to what a witness was saying about him and whether he was the focus of a tampering investigation. The shear snarkiness of it all and his constant habit of playing tit for tat "me tooo!" like a spoiled 2 year old whenever he gets smacked down by the court just reek of it. (I'm betting we have until Wednesday before we see the next storm of badly worded poorly planned out insufficient motions basically whining "it's not fair!! he did it tooo seeeee!" as he accuses JA or LE of something. It's really sort of amazing how those two found each other in the vast sea of legal normalcy that would otherwise separate and dilute them.
Dignity4Victims
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Thank you for laying this all out there for those of us who are bogged down at work, but wanted to catch a quick glimpse of Judge Perry's detailed Order.
BBM in red - This is my absolute most favorite statement by HHJP, proof that LE covered their behinds and knew what they were doing. They clearly relayed to Casey that she was free to leave, and what makes HHJP the "Chief" is that he is brilliant enough to separate the wheat from the chaff! :blowkiss:
LiveLaughLuv
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:floorlaugh:
Too funny...Jib Jab video is pure fun...I'd love JB to get a glimpse of it..
I am so very thankful to His Honor for seeing how the defendant gave more mistruths during these hearings. I also remember ICA telling her brother during a jailhouse visit, she was read her miranda rights..
It does appear, every chance Baez gets, he makes the depos about himself, first...He reminds me of those fools who represent themselves and get to cross examine their victims...sort of like reliving the assault...Baez can't stand what other people say about him but darn if he can't speak ill of others...
Hypocrits, same as the Anthony parents..CA made it seem as if she was so compassionate when in fact she was desperate, frantic and wanted info on Caylee's whereabouts. Yet they sat there and were being condesending to the very people who bent over backwards for them and their plight, (Sgt Allen was called when GA tried for his sympathetic suicide attempt).
I remember one time CA went to the sheriffs office and said, I know where Casey's at and I don't care if she spends the rest of her life there. All I want is my Caylee...yet, she made herself out to be so saddened by the fact ICA was put in handcuffs and CA cried...not in a million years did she do that! CA now wants to let ICA know, she is backing her, that she believes she's innocent and that Caylee is still alive, out there somewhere..
They truly should be ashamed of themselves that they can twist their words so darn easy. Go against the people who scoured Orlando for Caylee being put on this wild goose chase. I am really appalled at their actions for they are not wanting justice for Caylee...bet my last dollar, if it were a stranger who allegedly did this to their granddaughter, they'd be wanting their heads on a platter..but since it's ICA, they allow it to be OKAY! Absurd...their day of reckoning is coming and they need to watch out for Karma for it'll hit them harder than a cement brick...
I do hope they have no need for police assistance they might find themselves waiting forever for a response...JMHO
Justice for Caylee
Too funny...Jib Jab video is pure fun...I'd love JB to get a glimpse of it..
I am so very thankful to His Honor for seeing how the defendant gave more mistruths during these hearings. I also remember ICA telling her brother during a jailhouse visit, she was read her miranda rights..
It does appear, every chance Baez gets, he makes the depos about himself, first...He reminds me of those fools who represent themselves and get to cross examine their victims...sort of like reliving the assault...Baez can't stand what other people say about him but darn if he can't speak ill of others...
Hypocrits, same as the Anthony parents..CA made it seem as if she was so compassionate when in fact she was desperate, frantic and wanted info on Caylee's whereabouts. Yet they sat there and were being condesending to the very people who bent over backwards for them and their plight, (Sgt Allen was called when GA tried for his sympathetic suicide attempt).
I remember one time CA went to the sheriffs office and said, I know where Casey's at and I don't care if she spends the rest of her life there. All I want is my Caylee...yet, she made herself out to be so saddened by the fact ICA was put in handcuffs and CA cried...not in a million years did she do that! CA now wants to let ICA know, she is backing her, that she believes she's innocent and that Caylee is still alive, out there somewhere..
They truly should be ashamed of themselves that they can twist their words so darn easy. Go against the people who scoured Orlando for Caylee being put on this wild goose chase. I am really appalled at their actions for they are not wanting justice for Caylee...bet my last dollar, if it were a stranger who allegedly did this to their granddaughter, they'd be wanting their heads on a platter..but since it's ICA, they allow it to be OKAY! Absurd...their day of reckoning is coming and they need to watch out for Karma for it'll hit them harder than a cement brick...
I do hope they have no need for police assistance they might find themselves waiting forever for a response...JMHO
Justice for Caylee
Tulessa
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Bold mine.
So very well put my friend and in the end? That just might help the Jury reach a death penalty conviction. It's VERY apparent that NONE of these are on Caylee's side. How sad is that?
debbie0604
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I remember that case, and IIRC, the sheriff "tricked" her into confessing saying that they had a roadblock surveillance of undercover police at that intersection area where she said she was carjacked, and that there was no one in that area matching the description of who she was saying highjacked her. (The sheriff was lying to her). She finally confessed.
debbie0604
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Oh... okay... good. 'cause I thought that other lawyer was going to do that, but he ran off on the beach....:floorlaugh:
BetteDavisEyes
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This just showed up on my local (MetroDetroit) TV website:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/27255646/detail.html
Judge Allows Casey Anthony Statements Into Trial
Rulings Find Caylee Anthony's Mother Was Not In Custody When Questioned
POSTED: Sunday, March 20, 2011
UPDATED: 2:18 pm EDT March 20, 2011
ORLANDO, Fla. -- Statements made by Casey Anthony to police and her family can be used against her in her upcoming murder trial, the presiding judge ruled Friday.
Anthony's attorneys argued last week that her statements to law enforcement should be excluded because she was effectively in custody from soon after police arrived at her home in July 2008 and she was not read her Miranda rights.
But, in a 15-page order, Chief Judge Belvin Perry found Anthony "was not considered a suspect by police, but a witness" whose daughter, Caylee, had just been reported missing. The girl's remains were found months later in woods near Casey Anthony's parents live...
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/27255646/detail.html
Judge Allows Casey Anthony Statements Into Trial
Rulings Find Caylee Anthony's Mother Was Not In Custody When Questioned
POSTED: Sunday, March 20, 2011
UPDATED: 2:18 pm EDT March 20, 2011
ORLANDO, Fla. -- Statements made by Casey Anthony to police and her family can be used against her in her upcoming murder trial, the presiding judge ruled Friday.
Anthony's attorneys argued last week that her statements to law enforcement should be excluded because she was effectively in custody from soon after police arrived at her home in July 2008 and she was not read her Miranda rights.
But, in a 15-page order, Chief Judge Belvin Perry found Anthony "was not considered a suspect by police, but a witness" whose daughter, Caylee, had just been reported missing. The girl's remains were found months later in woods near Casey Anthony's parents live...
SoCalSleuth
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Totally agree! Definitely was one of the strangest motions I've ever heard -- from JB's continually asking what was said about him, to his ridiculous "cross-exam" (and I use that word loosely here) of YM (seriously, I about fell off my chair when YM asked him "What did she tell me that was a lie?" -priceless!)-to KC intentionally snubbing her parents who were imploring her with their eyes--what was her point? Birds of a feather?? I think you may be right!
Atlanta PI
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Mel don't you have to do at least 40 hours for overtime? lol Yes he may have to actually work this weekend. Awww~