2011.06.17 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-One)

[Sleuths4Me]

Question

Since they have brought in the stain of the car can the SA bring in someone during the rebuttal to identify the outline of the stain?...basically showing a body in the fetal position?

 

[Softail]

Personally, I think JA's cross is going to be a no-brainer. This experiment has nothing to do with this case. Especially the part about hundreds of thousands of flies. Um, gee..... that car was left open to "air" it out. Duh! Not to mention, that Caylee wasn't in there for 11 days. So many things...

I'm not worried. JA will clear all of this up pretty quick.

 

[Elley Mae]

I am glad Casey lawyer-ed up like she did, what if she didn't and G&C would have got someone with some experience.

 

[Themis]

And this may have taken place in the dark of night, if we accept the idea that George wasn't telling the truth about seeing Casey and Caylee on the 16th (in clothes that she wasn't found in), and that there was actually a big fight with Cindy on the 15th.

I believe that too. That's part of motive. Remember, they don't need to prove motive in Florida. The neighbor knew of it and JG had that information -- probably from ICA. But, the state had to reconcile that with GA's memory of that morning, which I think was more likely a memory from a routine morning on another day. He could have plugged in the striped pants because they were found in the car. But that left the SA with relying heavily on GA's testimony and having to discredit his memory at the same time. So, they decided to go with GA's memory and leave him as a creditable witness.

 

[DIXIECAT]

Also, that the trunk could have been opened and aired any number of times. There is no evidence that the trunk was sealed until LE seized it. Cleaning, opening????

Great point! If ICA's trunk and car doors were opened multiple times between Caylee's death and the time of the forensic evidence gathering, many, if not all, of the mature blow flies might exited the car. Besides that, didn't GA vacuum the trunk at some point, which would have removed maggot casings? I don't remember the details of GA's handling of the car before he left for work on July 15th after retrieving it from the tow yard....:twocents:

 

[kaRN]

We have all heard how obessive "clean" and neat freaks GA and CA are. We can tell by just looking at the home videos they are. So with that being said, when one cleans a car me thinks they also clean/vacuum the trunk. I do when I vacuum my vehicle.

I always assumed that the car included the trunk. It's just a part of the car and ITA she scrubbed it down.

 

[USARDOG]

I once bagged a dead opossum that I picked up from the road in front of my house, and left it outside on the concrete until trash day, (about 2 days later) because it smelled! It stained the concrete through the bag! I had to wash/bleach the stain like crazy to get rid of it, even though the bag never leaked. That plastics has a tight enough matrix to prevent liquid from escaping, but it doesn't seem like the molecules are close enough to prevent certain gasses from passing through.

Interestingly enough, the stain left was the perfect outline of the Opossum... Was very spooky, and I actually thought about leaving it for about 1 min because it was so cool. Something like the Opossum version of the shoud of Turin.

 

[darnudes]

Thanks for sharing that. One thing I saw when I enlarged it was what appeared to be her little hand. If you look to the left of where they show the knee, you'll see what I think looks like a hand/fingers. :sick:

To be honest the two threads I stayed out of was the duct tape thread and the trunk stain thread, I just couldn't go there, but I saw the picture when JWG first posted it and I was so shook up because it just seemed so real then and so very very sad. Once you see that photo it is burned into your memory and you can't erase it.

 

[Etilema]

Just now getting a chance to log on and turn the TV on as well. So I am behind! I saw a clip of the judge giving our man Ashton a smackdown (which kinda hurt my feelings!) Can someone tell me if the jury witnessed this or not? I think it is sooooo unprofessional for JB to be allowed to text all throughout court. Love the judge, but don't feel he should have made the statement JB can stand on his head, etc etc. I believe the entire DT and ICA are given too much leeway.

Anyhow, just wondered if this was in view of jury or not.

Of course, I assume that JB is texting about info related to the case, but wouldn't be funny if it were more like, "Where RU?" and he replies "In court - BOOOORING".

 

[Dr.Fessel]

If the flies in the trunk of the rotting pig can't get out of the trunk how did they get into the inside of the car?

 

[Chiquita71]

I am thinking that they may get to see it now. I think that that was what HHJP was hinting at at the end of his ruling regarding Huntington. His warning about the opening of doors. I think that was a very minor victory/succesful scam for JB that will bite him in the end. That's why HHJP seems so forgiving of JB. He is letting him hang himself by opening doors that the state could not otherwise bring up.

:thumb: faefrost :yes:

When Jose hangs himself, HHJP has to make sure it is clear, very clear that Jose wanted it step by step because HHJP (IMHO)knows who and what he is dealing with here and how far this team will go to deflect blame.

I was upset with HH at first, but I had started to come to your conclusion faefrost and you pulled it right into focus. :curtsey:

:twocents:
:twocents:

(inflation: my opinion is worth more now. :winko: ) :floorlaugh:

 

[Themis]

Personally, I think JA's cross is going to be a no-brainer. This experiment has nothing to do with this case. Especially the part about hundreds of thousands of flies. Um, gee..... that car was left open to "air" it out. Duh! Not to mention, that Caylee wasn't in there for 11 days. So many things...

I'm not worried. JA will clear all of this up pretty quick.

I hope that during the break that JA will have a chance to interview this witness so he knows exactly how the witness will answer his questions. JB is trying to present a case based on trial by ambush.

 

[ahoyhoy]

About Juror #4 not wanting to 'judge' people...
I trust HHJP has heard this almost a MILLION times in jury selection. I have worked with a number of women over the years who suddenly 'remember they're religious' when there's something they don't want to do. One co-worker refused to sign a 'write-up' at work, because "My only boss is God."

Juror #4 may have entered with a 'grudge,' b/c her ploy didn't work. But now after all she's seen, I really don't think she'll have any problem at all. I just don't think of a middle-aged woman, who lives alone and holds a job, as NOT having 'common sense.'

And why would she want to annoy HHJP by just hanging for hanging's sake? I just doubt it. JMO JMO JMO

 

[STEADFAST]

I'm afraid of that too. I sit here thinking, if a person like ICA can get off of murder 1 for this, who couldn't? I mean, we have video of her lying. Video of her horrible lack of compasssion from the first jail call. Things that tie the body to her home. Duct tape fgs over her baby's mouth and nose. She had control of the death car.

What does one need to prove murder 1? A video of it happening? Is that the only thing that works? As long as you have lawyers who can insert doubt and blame other innocent people you will be fine?

In virtually every case that I've followed here and that has gone to trial, posters become frustrated that the prosecutors are not proving the case and have left important facts out. Then we all become distraught that the defense is explaining away the evidence in unfair (or even fair) ways. But, except for Michael Jackson, I can't think of one case on here that has gone to trial in which the defendant has been found not guilty -- although there probably are a few.

When we know every little incriminating detail, it's hard to see any of them left out. But I think juries can see the forest without having to see every single tree.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Thanks for sharing TO! It is a comfort knowing that others have had such experiences when young and learning stuff. :crazy: I was almost too embarrassed to share!

wm

Look - I am an only child, my mom used to do everything for me up until the day I married! I learned a lot. My ex loves to tell the story that after about a month of marriage, he went out and bought 30 pairs of new socks because he realized I would not wash clothes until we had ABSOLUTELY nothing clean left to wear!

 

[watchinginky]

I thought everybody was making cloud figures too.
I couldn't see anything in the stain on a regular computer monitor so I blew it up on the big screen TV and the image is now forever seared into my brain, ugh.

I definitely 'see' the image and what appears to be the outline of four little fingers

If you haven't blown JRW's (correct nic?) outlines up on a huge TV I would encourage you to do so as long as it won't affect you too much.

Do you have a copy of JRW's outlines or a link to it so we can look at it? TIA!

ETA....nevermind...I found that you posted it upthread!! THANK YOU!

 

[LyndyLoo]

I once bagged a dead opossum that I picked up from the road in front of my house, and left it outside on the concrete until trash day, (about 2 days later) because it smelled! It stained the concrete through the bag! I had to wash/bleach the stain like crazy to get rid of it, even though the bag never leaked. That plastics has a tight enough matrix to prevent liquid from escaping, but it doesn't seem like the molecules are close enough to prevent certain gasses from passing through.

:floorlaugh: Live and Learn, eh USAEDOG.....next time may I suggest yu triple bag "Roadkill" you come across..and oh yeah..make sure you use good quality bags..high mil count..that also helps to avoid leakages,,..Who knows in your case, maybe a wild critter got whiff of it and investigated..tearing it so it leaked...

Ya see, there's always alternate views :crazy:

 

[Blue Ridge]

I'm afraid of that too. I sit here thinking, if a person like ICA can get off of murder 1 for this, who couldn't? I mean, we have video of her lying. Video of her horrible lack of compasssion from the first jail call. Things that tie the body to her home. Duct tape fgs over her baby's mouth and nose. She had control of the death car.

What does one need to prove murder 1? A video of it happening? Is that the only thing that works? As long as you have lawyers who can insert doubt and blame other innocent people you will be fine?

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Great post tragco.

 

[Etilema]

I believe that too. That's part of motive. Remember, they don't need to prove motive in Florida. The neighbor knew of it and JG had that information -- probably from ICA. But, the state had to reconcile that with GA's memory of that morning, which I think was more likely a memory from a routine morning on another day. He could have plugged in the striped pants because they were found in the car. But that left the SA with relying heavily on GA's testimony and having to discredit his memory at the same time. So, they decided to go with GA's memory and leave him as a creditable witness.

I agree with you that GA's account was more of a constructed memory. I think that, unfortunately, the whole family worked to try to minimize the chances of Casey being arrested/convicted and now they have to live with the results of that.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

Trying to catch up today......at what point in the testimony did TH reveal he was called on 12/11/08? Was it before or after the break he took for his glucose check?

Thanks!