2011.06.17 TRIAL Day Twenty-one (Afternoon Session)
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CA CA - Elizabeth 'Beth' Funchess, 6 mos, San Jose, 9 Sept 1977
- Latest: John/Jane Doe
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JSR
Maybe all one can do is hope to end up with the ri
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They shouldn't be at the scene because the damn BODY was stored in the TRUNK!!!!!!!!!!! UGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
The body was past the point of the beginning stages of decomp so that's why there aren't any blowflies!!!!
The body was past the point of the beginning stages of decomp so that's why there aren't any blowflies!!!!
grammieto5
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I hope JA asks this witness how much he's being paid for his testimony !!
Wholehearted
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What was the source of that loud slamming sound that startled the witness?
shezcrafti
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Omg, huge DUH to this guy's entire testimony. We know Caylee was in that trunk and then moved. IMO, everything he is saying is corroborating that.
Disguiseduser0308
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I thought the spit was in a crystal light bottle. :waitasec:
I personally wouldn't want to add yet another piece of evidence where Casey's credibility gets stacked up against George's.
Donjeta
Adji Desir, missing from Florida
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Is that vacuum filter in the evidence?
costalpilot
Active Member
nancy grace has got to be all over this breaking news
that the body was moved
bombshell tonight
caylee not killed in woods
according to nebraska expert
that the body was moved
bombshell tonight
caylee not killed in woods
according to nebraska expert
adb263
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Yep, then she wouldn't have to throw her dad under the bus (again) to say he hit an animal (just couldn't spell squirl)
kaRN
Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse
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LOL I was trying to answer you and was thwarted by the thread closure. He was testifying about not being able to clean the adipocere, a semi sold, fluidy whatever. The smell is a gas, albeit a permeating one but it isn't adipocere.
ITA about everything you're saying my medic friend!! He was talking about cleaning up a solid and that was only part of the smell though. :sick: The car stank after cleaning and probably still does.
At least I think. Joypath???
Azcrabcakes
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:crazy:
mombomb
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Lunch over at 1:30
OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY
JB - it appears that JA is going to attempt to inquire of Dr. H as to whether he was a student of Dr. Haskel. JB feels that is improper bolstering of Dr. Haskel.
JA - who he studied under is part of his qualifications. Doesn't feel it is a question he should not be allowed to ask.
HHJBP - well, it depends. The reason I say that - it depends on whether or not the defense attempts to discredit the qualifications or the opinions - well, discredit the qualifications of Dr. Haskel; and if it does, then the rule is that you can bolster, and more specifically - under Mr. Mason's book - Ehardt... It really depends on what happens now.
JA - These 2 experts may have different opinions, but I do not intend on challenging the qualifications of Dr. Neal Haskel.
HHJBP - It really depends, and I will have to see at the end of the conclusion of your direct examination of your witness, whether or not that question is fair game. So, at that point ya'll can approach the bench and I will say yes or no.
HHJBP - also remember one thing, you went into his qualifications regarding diplomat and the express purpose of that was to talk about his abilities to testify or not testify and there may be some relevancy as to whether or not he was a "student". We'll get to that in the end. We can engage in a long intellectual discussion and debate on that issue.
JURY RETURNED AT 1:36.
DIRECT EXAMINATION OF DR. HUNTINGTON BY JB - continued
I think where we left off - we were discussing the items in the trunk of the sunfire and you gave us your opinion as to the insect activity with regard to the garbage bag. Was there anything that you were aware of that was outside of the garbage bag of evidentiary value.
OBJECTION - SUSTAINED
There were a few (2) samples found outside of the garbage bag, as well as the sweepings. There was a very low number of articles of insect evidence recovered outside of the bag - same as inside - just very low numbers.
Difference between trash and garbage? Thinks it is more of a colloqueal or regional. As an entomologist he does not see a difference. He uses them interchangeably.
Regarding the trash, paper towels were found in trash. They contained a number of hump back or scuttle fly pupary. There was no live material associated with them - just empty casings. Given the articles in the trash bag, it did not surprise him at all. When a maggot looks for a spot to pupate, they look for hidden tight fitting locations. A crumpled up paper towel has a lot of nooks and crannies. He often uses pieces of paper towel in the lab for insects to pupate in.
Does the fact that you have this specific insects pupating in that area, is there anything on the paper towels that they were used in any way to clean up decomp.
OBJECTION - beyond the expertise - OVERRULED
When you find a pupation site such as a paper towel, it associates itself with something other than a food source. If there was a food source there, he would not expect to find them. Their presence on the towel indicates an absence of food material. They were in the closed or empty stage. The flies had already emerged.
Was there anything that you identified from any of the materials that have any indications - I'll strike that.
About the garbage, what attracts these insects to garbage? These specific flies,.....
OBJECTION - not relevant - SUSTAINED
What in your opinion attracted these insects to this trash? Based on the contents of this trash bag, there was a number of cans of tobacco spit. That is a body fluid that decomposes itself These flies are very attracted to this type of material. Also, it appeared that there was a dried up piece of meat in a balogna container which could have also accounted for it.
Would that be even if the tobacco was inside a closed container? Yes, they are very small flies and are attracted to very restricted food sources.
Photos - enlargement of photos in evidence - S-123 and S-121.
JA - can we project the image onto the screen so we can all see? JB - no we will be jumping back and forth (sure does appear JA is trying to rattle JB at every opportunity). JA standing right over JB while he is questiioning the witness.
When he first inspected the garbage, visually with photos, he had access to both of these. He spent more time looking at 33 - dry garbage.
OBJECTION BY JA - OVERRULED
What would be the difference -
JA - I'm sorry this set up is not good. I cannot see the photo. JB - you can hold them. JA - no I need to see what you are pointing at. HHJBP - move on!
What is the difference of the bugs being attracted to the dry vs the wet garbage? The flies are going to be more attracted to the damp wet garbage than dry - primarily to do with larval habits. When a fly lays eggs, they dry up very quickly and have to be in an environment where they don't dry up easily and the maggots don't feed well on dry material.
How could they recover maggots or insect activity on dry garbage?
OBJECTION BY JA - OVERRULED
The evidence that is visible in the dry garbage photos is the remains of the insects that were feeding in the damp garbage.
It doesn't have to be a substantial amount of material to draw their attention. Flies are attracted to the smell of decomp - which is the process of being eaten. The food items have bacteria on them that are eating them. The bacteria itself begins the decomp process and emits the initial odor that attracts the flies.
Any other items in the trash the bugs would find interesting?
Is there anything inconsistent between what you found in the trash and the entire trunk which would lead you to believe this is anything other than the result of a bag of trash being left in the car for 2-3 weeks. He would expect to find the same thing in a bag of trash such as this in anyone's backyard.
Shifting focus to the Suburban Drive site - from the evidence that you reviewed, do you have any opinions as to - Let me rephrase - what does the insect evidence tell us there?
The insect material associated with the remains are what you would expect to find associated with remains at that location at that time of year. The early colonizing flies were missing. Their absence is unusual in a case where a body is recovered outdoors in that nature. A body that is readily accessible - the absence of the early colonizing insects is unusual - they should have been there and there is no good reason for them not to be there. What that indicates is that the body has been moved from some other location other than where it was discovered - certainly shows a postmortem movement.
Are there other things that can tell where a body decomposed.
OBJECTION BY JA
SIDEBAR #5 (1:59)
OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY
JB - it appears that JA is going to attempt to inquire of Dr. H as to whether he was a student of Dr. Haskel. JB feels that is improper bolstering of Dr. Haskel.
JA - who he studied under is part of his qualifications. Doesn't feel it is a question he should not be allowed to ask.
HHJBP - well, it depends. The reason I say that - it depends on whether or not the defense attempts to discredit the qualifications or the opinions - well, discredit the qualifications of Dr. Haskel; and if it does, then the rule is that you can bolster, and more specifically - under Mr. Mason's book - Ehardt... It really depends on what happens now.
JA - These 2 experts may have different opinions, but I do not intend on challenging the qualifications of Dr. Neal Haskel.
HHJBP - It really depends, and I will have to see at the end of the conclusion of your direct examination of your witness, whether or not that question is fair game. So, at that point ya'll can approach the bench and I will say yes or no.
HHJBP - also remember one thing, you went into his qualifications regarding diplomat and the express purpose of that was to talk about his abilities to testify or not testify and there may be some relevancy as to whether or not he was a "student". We'll get to that in the end. We can engage in a long intellectual discussion and debate on that issue.
JURY RETURNED AT 1:36.
DIRECT EXAMINATION OF DR. HUNTINGTON BY JB - continued
I think where we left off - we were discussing the items in the trunk of the sunfire and you gave us your opinion as to the insect activity with regard to the garbage bag. Was there anything that you were aware of that was outside of the garbage bag of evidentiary value.
OBJECTION - SUSTAINED
There were a few (2) samples found outside of the garbage bag, as well as the sweepings. There was a very low number of articles of insect evidence recovered outside of the bag - same as inside - just very low numbers.
Difference between trash and garbage? Thinks it is more of a colloqueal or regional. As an entomologist he does not see a difference. He uses them interchangeably.
Regarding the trash, paper towels were found in trash. They contained a number of hump back or scuttle fly pupary. There was no live material associated with them - just empty casings. Given the articles in the trash bag, it did not surprise him at all. When a maggot looks for a spot to pupate, they look for hidden tight fitting locations. A crumpled up paper towel has a lot of nooks and crannies. He often uses pieces of paper towel in the lab for insects to pupate in.
Does the fact that you have this specific insects pupating in that area, is there anything on the paper towels that they were used in any way to clean up decomp.
OBJECTION - beyond the expertise - OVERRULED
When you find a pupation site such as a paper towel, it associates itself with something other than a food source. If there was a food source there, he would not expect to find them. Their presence on the towel indicates an absence of food material. They were in the closed or empty stage. The flies had already emerged.
Was there anything that you identified from any of the materials that have any indications - I'll strike that.
About the garbage, what attracts these insects to garbage? These specific flies,.....
OBJECTION - not relevant - SUSTAINED
What in your opinion attracted these insects to this trash? Based on the contents of this trash bag, there was a number of cans of tobacco spit. That is a body fluid that decomposes itself These flies are very attracted to this type of material. Also, it appeared that there was a dried up piece of meat in a balogna container which could have also accounted for it.
Would that be even if the tobacco was inside a closed container? Yes, they are very small flies and are attracted to very restricted food sources.
Photos - enlargement of photos in evidence - S-123 and S-121.
JA - can we project the image onto the screen so we can all see? JB - no we will be jumping back and forth (sure does appear JA is trying to rattle JB at every opportunity). JA standing right over JB while he is questiioning the witness.
When he first inspected the garbage, visually with photos, he had access to both of these. He spent more time looking at 33 - dry garbage.
OBJECTION BY JA - OVERRULED
What would be the difference -
JA - I'm sorry this set up is not good. I cannot see the photo. JB - you can hold them. JA - no I need to see what you are pointing at. HHJBP - move on!
What is the difference of the bugs being attracted to the dry vs the wet garbage? The flies are going to be more attracted to the damp wet garbage than dry - primarily to do with larval habits. When a fly lays eggs, they dry up very quickly and have to be in an environment where they don't dry up easily and the maggots don't feed well on dry material.
How could they recover maggots or insect activity on dry garbage?
OBJECTION BY JA - OVERRULED
The evidence that is visible in the dry garbage photos is the remains of the insects that were feeding in the damp garbage.
It doesn't have to be a substantial amount of material to draw their attention. Flies are attracted to the smell of decomp - which is the process of being eaten. The food items have bacteria on them that are eating them. The bacteria itself begins the decomp process and emits the initial odor that attracts the flies.
Any other items in the trash the bugs would find interesting?
Is there anything inconsistent between what you found in the trash and the entire trunk which would lead you to believe this is anything other than the result of a bag of trash being left in the car for 2-3 weeks. He would expect to find the same thing in a bag of trash such as this in anyone's backyard.
Shifting focus to the Suburban Drive site - from the evidence that you reviewed, do you have any opinions as to - Let me rephrase - what does the insect evidence tell us there?
The insect material associated with the remains are what you would expect to find associated with remains at that location at that time of year. The early colonizing flies were missing. Their absence is unusual in a case where a body is recovered outdoors in that nature. A body that is readily accessible - the absence of the early colonizing insects is unusual - they should have been there and there is no good reason for them not to be there. What that indicates is that the body has been moved from some other location other than where it was discovered - certainly shows a postmortem movement.
Are there other things that can tell where a body decomposed.
OBJECTION BY JA
SIDEBAR #5 (1:59)
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