2011.06.18 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-Two)

[kant]

oops double post sorry

 

[kant]

Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat
I trust this jury to come to intelligent conclusions, so I'm not troubled by what might or might not be said in the media.

I agree! The jury isn't seeing this media coverage - thank goodness! So, they won't be persuaded by it. They will be basing their verdict on the evidence.

I agree too; I was just referring to my own doof-ery regarding the media confusion.

Another tidbit that crawls all over me, as someone mentioned,....

as micro-managing as Cindy is, no way, too, do I buy that she had never met the fantasy that is Zanny -- and was fine with that.

And furthermore, it's not believable that a young child wouldnt babble on about what they did that day or every day and mention Zanny by name. But of course Caylee didnt mention anything bc there was no such...

bah

blarg

 

[LambChop]

You guys are good.

Not implausible scenarios you guys mention; not implausible at all imo about the trunk and tape.

I have vacillated, but at a time, I even wondered if Casey (in one of her, I'll-make-a-lie-a-reality by-repeating-it-ad-infinitum stints) - I wondered if she stuck the tape on there as an after-thought thinking, as in, "hmmmm, kidnappers put tape, so um... I need to put tape. "

Also, dont know how credible that one friend is since she sold her story to a rag, but if it WERE true that they used to put stickers on their dead pets and bury them in that area.... CHILLS...... goosey chillies.

As mentioned above, I also wondered about the dude/boyfriend not wanting kids which reminded me of that Susan Smith case.

OTOH, I can also see Cindy threatening to take Caylee and Casey thinking, "I'll kill her before I'll let you have her." Even if Casey didnt even WANT Caylee, I can totally see an, "I dont want her, but I'll be damned if you'll have her" thought process in Casey. IDK

I was shocked (and appalled?) at myself after Jose's opening statements those days weeks ago when I thought, "I'll be a .... that dude didnt do a half bad job."

Shocked ...SHOCKED at myself - I tell you - for my thinking that.


moo

BBM: I thought TL said he told KC he thought boys were easier to raise than girls because he had a sister and not that he did not want children. I could be wrong but that was what I understood. TL certainly could not have been turned off by KC having a child because he continued to date her. The issued appeared to be the fact that even at his young age TL knew that the apartment arrangement he had with his friends was not an appropriate environment in which a child should be present. It could be why he was so insistent about him visiting her at the house. jmo

 

[tehcloser]

Lee has been mentioned in the trial about the molestation carp. It was when TL was testifying...........

 

[Nali87]

You guys are good.

Not implausible scenarios you guys mention; not implausible at all imo about the trunk and tape.

I have vacillated, but at a time, I even wondered if Casey (in one of her, I'll-make-a-lie-a-reality by-repeating-it-ad-infinitum stints) - I wondered if she stuck the tape on there as an after-thought thinking, as in, "hmmmm, kidnappers put tape, so um... I need to put tape. "

Also, dont know how credible that one friend is since she sold her story to a rag, but if it WERE true that they used to put stickers on their dead pets and bury them in that area.... CHILLS...... goosey chillies.

As mentioned above, I also wondered about the dude/boyfriend not wanting kids which reminded me of that Susan Smith case.

OTOH, I can also see Cindy threatening to take Caylee and Casey thinking, "I'll kill her before I'll let you have her." Even if Casey didnt even WANT Caylee, I can totally see an, "I dont want her, but I'll be damned if you'll have her" thought process in Casey. IDK

I was shocked (and appalled?) at myself after Jose's opening statements those days weeks ago when I thought, "I'll be a .... that dude didnt do a half bad job."

Shocked ...SHOCKED at myself - I tell you - for my thinking that.


moo

EXACTLY. I really think her motive was Tony-related. In her first phone call to her parents while in jail, he's the first one she asks about. She grows impatient and aggresive when her friend keeps asking about Caylee instead of giving her Tony's number.

 

[Tuffy]

EXACTLY. I really think her motive was Tony-related. In her first phone call to her parents while in jail, he's the first one she asks about. She grows impatient and aggresive when her friend keeps asking about Caylee instead of giving her Tony's number.

We have the computer searches taking place before she meets Tony though.

 

[kant]

It said in the thread that someone nicely found that that search was 4 miles from their house, so no, it wasn't where she was found.
And I think the reason she looked up that scispot for how to make chloroform 84 times was to get up the nerve to finally do it.

Thanks for the four miles note.

Also, the chloroform thing - this is interesting.

But let me preface, if anything even happened to me, or if I were ever accused of anything, God forbid, --- oh Lordy, --- if they looked on MY computer. yikes what they'd find.

I cant see Casey having they wherewithall (imo) and /or opportunity to make chloroform especially without someone noticing something.

Plus, she'd have to purchase the needed items; and, good grief, she couldnt even get her ducks in a row enough to go to Target with her own money.

I just have a hard time with the computer search angle; But then again, if you looked at the Weirdy McWeird myriad of the things I search ... YOWZA.

 

[Nali87]

This is interesting.

If anything even happened to me, or if I were ever accused of anything God forbid, oh Lordy, if they looked on MY computer. yikes what they'd find.

I cant see Casy have they wherewithall and or opportunity to make chloroform. I just cant give her that much credit. Plus she'd have to purchase the needed items; and, good grief, she couldnt even get her ducks in a row enough to go to Target with her own money.

I just have a hard time with the computer search angle; But then again, if you looked at the Weirdy McWeird myriad of the things I search ... YOWZA.

It didn't look that complicated though. Probably have to build up nerve to actually do it. The instructions on the site she visited look pretty simple.

 

[kant]

We have the computer searches taking place before she meets Tony though.

wow -- good catch.

 

[Nali87]

We have the computer searches taking place before she meets Tony though.

Damn it. There goes my theory. :waitasec: Hmm. I still see a more Tony related motive than a Cindy one.. I don't buy that Casey was afraid of her parents..

 

[Quiche]

Lee has been mentioned in the trial about the molestation carp. It was when TL was testifying...........

Was that portion of TonE's testimony in front of the jury? I know the part about George only disciplining was... :waitasec:

 

[KathrynL]

Lee has been mentioned in the trial about the molestation carp. It was when TL was testifying...........

to

Yes, without the jury. I see why it hasn't been brought up in front of them since she told TL that "it didn't happen" or words to that effect.

 

[kant]

It didn't look that complicated though. Probably have to build up nerve to actually do it. The instructions on the site she visited look pretty simple.

I see your point.

I guess I envision someone like Casey, making her concoction, accidently breathing it herself and knocking her own self (as the kids say) out. IDK.

Plus, is it our collective view here (to the extent that we have one) that she woldnt have intended to kill Caylee if chloroform were in the scenario? What I'm trying to say is, if she were searching it to make it to use as a baby sitter, there are much easier ways to sedate a child and those ways look a lot less fishy in the big picture (Let me note those ways are just plain *wrong*- sedating a child so one can party; and of course, I meant it that way, but just wanted to emphasize)

I guess in a nutshell, for me, I see Casey as taking the easiest route to attain whatever it was she was goin for; and if sedation was actually her goal (as opposed to a goal, of let's say, persuing a ruse of some sort or intending to kill someone).... well... you get my drift. It seems there are easier ways to go.

And how do we know Casey did the searches? Was it a laptop or a desktop?

tia

 

[STEADFAST]

Probably because the defense team hadn't mentioned Lee. They probably figured it was best to let sleeping dogs lie instead of planting sick suspicions in the juror's minds.

Yes, the DT had mentioned Lee already to plant those sick suspicions. In his opening statement, Baez said,

". . . And you`ll hear evidence that Casey has a brother. And he, too, wanted to follow in his father`s footsteps, and on certain occasions when he was a teenager, he attempted to also touch his sister, although it didn`t go as far. It got so bad that the FBI did a paternity test to see if he was Caylee`s father. And when he was confronted with this information, he didn`t deny it. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1106/13/ijvm.01.html

 

[countzero]

BBM: I thought TL said he told KC he thought boys were easier to raise than girls because he had a sister and not that he did not want children. I could be wrong but that was what I understood. TL certainly could not have been turned off by KC having a child because he continued to date her. The issued appeared to be the fact that even at his young age TL knew that the apartment arrangement he had with his friends was not an appropriate environment in which a child should be present. It could be why he was so insistent about him visiting her at the house. jmo

I remember that and also didn't TL say he didn't want girls cause he didn't want them to ugly like him. IDK, my brain cells may not be firing all together right now.

 

[kant]

dangitall. I type a post. it disappears without what seems as "posting" or going thru. I re-type it or some version of it and dammit if it's not there from the first time it disappeared by itself. I clearly have a wonky glitch. Please excuse me. It's not on purpose dangit. Forgive me; Now let me go be one with my humiliation

If sedating Caylee were the goal, there are much easier and less fishy ways to do it than chloroform imo. Albeit they are all WRONG things to do, but they are out there.

Casey coudnt get her ducks in a row enough to shop without being on video - couldnt shop at Target with her own money; and for a chloroform recipe it seems she'd need to purchase at least some of the items; she'd need non interrupted privacy; she'd need to not goof it up by breathing it and knocking herself out with it.

Also, anyone who has a tv knows that searches are "findable" on PC hardrives

Also, how do we know that Casey did the searches? or all of them? Was it a desktop or worse yet (re: portability) a laptop?

 

[Just K]

It said in the thread that someone nicely found that that search was 4 miles from their house, so no, it wasn't where she was found.
And I think the reason she looked up that scispot for how to make chloroform 84 times was to get up the nerve to finally do it.

I think she did it without the duct tape at least a few times if not more. There is the night where no one knows where Caylee was when she stayed at RM's house. Also the friends said she wouldn't stay late or drink too much at the clubs and parties as she said she had to get home because of Caylee....something to that effect. So, I do think she drugged her and left her in the trunk more than the last time.

 

[Nali87]

I see your point.

I guess I envision someone like Casey, making her concoction, accidently breathing it herself and knocking her own self (as the kids say) out. IDK.

Plus, is it our collective view here (to the extent that we have one) that she woldnt have intended to kill Caylee if chloroform were in the scenario? What I'm trying to say is, if she were searching it to make it to use as a baby sitter, there are much easier ways to sedate a child and those ways look a lot less fishy in the big picture (Let me note those ways are just plain *wrong*- sedating a child so one can party; and of course, I meant it that way, but just wanted to emphasize)

I guess in a nutshell, for me, I see Casey as taking the easiest route to attain whatever it was she was goin for; and if sedation was actually her goal (as opposed to a goal, of let's say, persuing a ruse of some sort or intending to kill someone).... well... you get my drift. It seems there are easier ways to go.

And how do we know Casey did the searches? Was it a laptop or a desktop?

tia

I think it was the family desktop, using Mozilla Firefox. And that she was the only one that used that browser. But I'm not sure (it's late lol), so anyone feel free to correct me.

About your scenario. Yes a lot of people seem to think that that's what happened. I believe two things could've happened, since such a high level of chloroform was found. First scenario is the one you mentioned. Second is; Casey chloroformed Caylee so that she wouldn't be able to struggle when she put the ducttapes across her little face. Either one: murder in the first degree.

 

[kant]

Originally Posted by Nali87
Probably because the defense team hadn't mentioned Lee. They probably figured it was best to let sleeping dogs lie instead of planting sick suspicions in the juror's minds.

Yes, the DT had mentioned Lee already to plant those sick suspicions. In his opening statement, Baez said,

". . . And you`ll hear evidence that Casey has a brother. And he, too, wanted to follow in his father`s footsteps, and on certain occasions when he was a teenager, he attempted to also touch his sister, although it didn`t go as far. It got so bad that the FBI did a paternity test to see if he was Caylee`s father. And when he was confronted with this information, he didn`t deny it. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...3/ijvm.01.html

Thank you, Steadfast

Now I feel a little less nuts.

And still a bit of a head scratcher imo.

Anyway, thanks

.

 

[Nali87]

dangitall. I type a post. it disappears without what seems as "posting" or going thru. I re-type it or some version of it and dammit if it's not there from the first time it disappeared by itself. I clearly have a wonky glitch. Please excuse me. It's not on purpose dangit. Forgive me; Now let me go be one with my humiliation

If sedating Caylee were the goal, there are much easier and less fishy ways to do it than chloroform imo. Albeit they are all WRONG things to do, but they are out there.

Casey coudnt get her ducks in a row enough to shop without being on video - couldnt shop at Target with her own money; and for a chloroform recipe it seems she'd need to purchase at least some of the items; she'd need non interrupted privacy; she'd need to not goof it up by breathing it and knocking herself out with it.

Also, anyone who has a tv knows that searches are "findable" on PC hardrives

Also, how do we know that Casey did the searches? or all of them? Was it a desktop or worse yet (re: portability) a laptop?

She had no job though. Plenty of time to experiment. The items used to make chloforom are common used household items. Easily purchased. And if we're going with the child-abuse scenario, drugging Casey so that she could party, I assume she never figured it could all go horribly wrong and didn't bother to search on a library computer. (She did delete the chloroform sites/searches from the desktop though. No other sites were deleted, just those.)