2011.06.22 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-five)

[Melanie]

Whoa! But this is not a game. It's about justice for a little girl. JB's witnesses get shut down by JA because their arguments are faulty and weak, period.

JB has lied, shamelessly, and tried to mislead the public from day one with ridiculous statements which conveyed the sense that anyone who didn't believe him and his client's cockamamie stories were stupid beyond belief. He has been so arrogant and smug in his manipulation of the truth. He doesn't care about Caylee and he doesn't care about casey. He cares only about notoriety. JB knows and knew exactly what he got himself into and he doesn't care what lies he has to convey to try to score. I don't feel sorry for people like that.

HHJP has been more than fair and lenient towards JB, educating him, holding his hand, bending over backwards to look the other way when JB flouts the rules of the court and discovery.

The fact is, JB does not have a case and it shows in his witnesses.

RBBM

I agree, and I think it's going over loud and clear with the jurors. I believe even JB knows this -- especially when he requested the judge to let the jurors know it wasn't "his fault" there was 1/2 day today (had to LOL at that one).

I want justice for Caylee Marie. And all this nonsense that he's throwing at the wall certainly isn't sticking. However, I do believe, the jury will throw some mercy her way for having JB as such ineffective counsel and give her LWOP or possibly 30 years minimum. I just don't see the DP in the cards at the moment - but I'm merely speculating.

MOO

Mel

 

[lorann]

You will probably all throw tomatoes at me for saying this, but I feel sorry for Baez too. Its his own fault most likely to get himself into this situation, but still at least if 1 of his witnesses would have added something positive to his argument maybe he could proved some important point and put a bit of doubt out there. His witnesses just get smashed by JA every time it seems, or they say nothing really either way to help either side. This is like watching a shutout baseball game which I don't like.

Not one tomato from me, however, if JB had a witness who had a legit piece of testimony, they would not back down. JA is a good prosecutor, JB is an inexperienced lawyer- JMO.

 

[Americka]

You will probably all throw tomatoes at me for saying this, but I feel sorry for Baez too. Its his own fault most likely to get himself into this situation, but still at least if 1 of his witnesses would have added something positive to his argument maybe he could proved some important point and put a bit of doubt out there. His witnesses just get smashed by JA every time it seems, or they say nothing really either way to help either side. This is like watching a shutout baseball game which I don't like.

I have no sympathy for Jose Baez and I do not feel his experts are to blame. It is Jose's responsibility to find experts who can support his defendant's case. Perhaps he would have had some success in doing so if he had taken the time to pin down exactly what her "story" is. I find myself wondering why more prominent experts have not surfaced to assist in this case and I realized because no one wants to be attached to this train wreck of a case. Given his experience (or lack thereof), he should have passed on this case.

 

[allycat1208]

Whoa! But this is not a game. It's about justice for a little girl. JB's witnesses get shut down by JA because their arguments are faulty and weak, period.

JB has lied, shamelessly, and tried to mislead the public from day one with ridiculous statements which conveyed the sense that anyone who didn't believe him and his client's cockamamie stories were stupid beyond belief. He has been so arrogant and smug in his manipulation of the truth. He doesn't care about Caylee and he doesn't care about casey. He cares only about notoriety. JB knows and knew exactly what he got himself into and he doesn't care what lies he has to convey to try to score. I don't feel sorry for people like that.

HHJP has been more than fair and lenient towards JB, educating him, holding his hand, bending over backwards to look the other way when JB flouts the rules of the court and discovery.

The fact is, JB does not have a case and it shows in his witnesses.

I concede I have not watched this case from the beginning, so maybe I see it from a different perspective. What about JB's colleague's....don't they bear any responsibility in all this also?

 

[LyndyLoo]

I understand exactly what you are saying. I would too, EXCEPT, for his lack of ethical behaviors. I feel sorry for his bumbling and lack of XP. I do not feel sorry for him concerning any consequences coming from his sneakiness and/or lying. Maybe he is just another victim of iCA. But he is also his own worst enemy many times. IMO IMO IMO

I would agree with yor suggestion IF JB was indeed a Victim of KC..however he is an "Officer of the COurt" is bound by Rules of the Law..and Sorry..But JB has been caught over and over side stepping and at times completely disregarding them..Astounding that CM a season professional with DP experience hasnt advised him (as it is HIS ROLE)..I have to assume none of the DT care one bit about anything but to save KC from that lethal injection...
Personally I would be very satisfied if KC spends 23/24hours a day living with herself..then move on and get sent to HE$$ for her actions!!

JB will be dealt with post trial, CM will retire and all the true "Innocents" will have to pick up the pieces of their lives..:maddening::maddening::maddening:

I truly wish charges could be laid against some of this stuff..i.e. Vasco Thompson..what a crock!! But KC (et al~) will slime everyone..and I'd bet my last dollar she will accuse JB of sexual abuse when this is all over..Wouldnt put it past her:loser:

Yikes..best I go sit on my hands:crazy::seeya:

 

[Kentjbkent]

You will probably all throw tomatoes at me for saying this, but I feel sorry for Baez too. Its his own fault most likely to get himself into this situation, but still at least if 1 of his witnesses would have added something positive to his argument maybe he could proved some important point and put a bit of doubt out there. His witnesses just get smashed by JA every time it seems, or they say nothing really either way to help either side. This is like watching a shutout baseball game which I don't like.

No tomatoes here, and I respect your opinion, but Baez has been aware for more than a couple of years that this case is WAY above his expertise, and he has had NUMEROUS very well experienced defense attorneys join the team PRO BONO, but Baez has refused to relinquish any control and put himself in a position of LEARNING from any of them.....

He has passed up the opportunity of a lifetime (knowledge-wise) and THAT is his OWN fault!!!!

I cannot begin to list the knowledge I have gained from those more well educated than myself in certain areas, but starting with AZLawyer....have learned more from HER about the law and court proceedings than I knew in my 50 years....

Thanks AZ!!!!

 

[JustMeDeb]

The big pull-quote in the article is JB saying something to the effect that this is a penalty trial - which I think is quite odd. Perhaps it's a context or effective translation issue, but from that one could infer that his client was, at the very least, responsible...[/QUOTE]

That is my big frustration. He already said she was involved but covered up, blah blah blah, because of sexual abuse.

He has not once, at least yet, backed up any of this.

Does he really think the smoke & mirrors are going to make the jury forget his opening speech?

 

[texaslb218]

i would agree with yor suggestion IF JB was indeed a Victim of KC..however he is an "Officer of the COurt" is bound by Rules of the Law..and Sorry..But JB has been caught over and over side stepping and at times completely disregarding them..Astounding that CM a season professional with DP experience hasnt advised him (as it is HIS ROLE)..I have to assume none of the DT care one bit about anything but to save KC from that lethal injection...
Personally I would be very satisfied if KC spends 23/24hours a day living with herself..then move on and get sent to HE$$ for her actions!!

JB will be dealt with post trial, CM will retire and all the true "Innocents" will have to pick up the pieces of thier lives..:maddening::maddening::maddening:

I truly wish charges could be laid against some of this stuff..i.e. Vasco Thompson..what a crock!! But KC will slime everyone..and I'd bet my last dollar she will accuse JB of sexual abuse..Wouldnt put it past her:loser:

Yikes..best I go sit on my hands:crazy::seeya:

No need to sit on your hands. Both yours and Gitana1's posts are excellent. That is part of what makes this such a horrible experience. It's very difficult for us decent people (If I may) to watch all of this unfold. There are so many victims, evildoers, thick-headed stumps, and hard working passionate professionals. It's very difficult to apply our normal reactions of sympathy, empathy, embarrassment, and anger because much of the time we can't even understand the what and why a human could do this to a baby!!!!! IMO. No sitting on your hands for your intelligence. IMO

 

[mydailyopinions]

I don't feel sorry for Baez in the least. He knew from the start and as early as this morning that HE is NOT capable of trying this case. He claims he wants his client to have a fair trial when in fact he is only out for himself.

I truly do not see one person on that defense team who appears to be in it for the sake of Casey having a fair trial. I say it's Karma, because she deserves it, but still...they are all in it for the notoriety.

 

[JustMeDeb]

I understand exactly what you are saying. I would too, EXCEPT, for his lack of ethical behaviors. I feel sorry for his bumbling and lack of XP. I do not feel sorry for him concerning any consequences coming from his sneakiness and/or lying. Maybe he is just another victim of iCA. But he is also his own worst enemy many times. IMO IMO IMO

I am actually wondering if when he took the case, he didn't have a clue it would be a death penalty case. I think he thought he would come in, do his shtick, then run off into the sunset of interviews, books etc.

Seemed like when the DP was put on table, he had to scramble to find an attorney who was qualified for a DP case.

But now I just shake my head why he is not using the rest of his team. The only answer that seems apparent, his ego.

he is really not doing himself or his client any favors.

 

[JustJax]

HECK it's time for them all to finally speak up and defend their innocent grand-daughter/niece! What a bunch of crazy loons they are one and all! Incredible to be here now after 3 years to see that the friggin' SA has to cover their butts to make their points about what Casey really did. They did what they did and they know what that is and they will know what that is to the day they die.

moo

We all saw this coming some time ago...that ICA would throw her family under the bus, namely GA. Just wish they would have seen it...maybe they would have not been so comabtive every step of the way and not be in the position they are in now. JB would have never been able to spin this defence had they done the right thing. They may have had a better chance of saving their daughter from the needle during the penalty phase if they had been honest about the family dynamics and dyafuntion if they told the truth from the get go...Jmo

 

[GiantPickle]

Well, true to form for the day...the chloroform found in/on those things was basically meaningless. Minute amounts, could have come from anything.

Entire day was a huge waste.

Yes- but there was an interesting tidbit that I'm not sure was even noticed in the testimony but the sample doll taken from a random house ALSO had chloroform on it. That was VERY interesting to me. Suggested something like the plastic doll heads have that chemical "naturally". I am a little confused how the doll that was in the trunk doesn't have any extra chloroform on it. I thought that was a point for DT but I don't think it was hammered home at all.

 

[allycat1208]

Whoa! But this is not a game. It's about justice for a little girl. JB's witnesses get shut down by JA because their arguments are faulty and weak, period.

JB has lied, shamelessly, and tried to mislead the public from day one with ridiculous statements which conveyed the sense that anyone who didn't believe him and his client's cockamamie stories were stupid beyond belief. He has been so arrogant and smug in his manipulation of the truth. He doesn't care about Caylee and he doesn't care about casey. He cares only about notoriety. JB knows and knew exactly what he got himself into and he doesn't care what lies he has to convey to try to score. I don't feel sorry for people like that.

HHJP has been more than fair and lenient towards JB, educating him, holding his hand, bending over backwards to look the other way when JB flouts the rules of the court and discovery.

The fact is, JB does not have a case and it shows in his witnesses.

Its really hard for me to understand why an attorney would really want to become famous through a case and at the same time ruin his own reputation as an attorney. Maybe I'm naive.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I am actually wondering if when he took the case, he didn't have a clue it would be a death penalty case. I think he thought he would come in, do his shtick, then run off into the sunset of interviews, books etc.
Seemed like when the DP was put on table, he had to scramble to find an attorney who was qualified for a DP case.

But now I just shake my head why he is not using the rest of his team. The only answer that seems apparent, his ego.

he is really not doing himself or his client any favors.

I completely agree with you, especially when you look at the history of his prior clients. The majority plead out....and if you recall, when KC was first arrested, she was NOT arrested on murder charges...he figured she'd plea out....

 

[Kentjbkent]

We all saw this coming some time ago...that ICA would throw her family under the bus, namely GA. Just wish they would have seen it...maybe they would have not been so comabtive every step of the way and not be in the position they are in now. JB would have never been able to spin this defence had they done the right thing. They may have had a better chance of saving their daughter from the needle during the penalty phase if they had been honest about the family dynamics and dyafuntion if they told the truth from the get go...Jmo

I don't know....I think it is possible they were COMPLETELY aware that it was POSSIBLE....which is why they "kitty"footed around KC in the jail visits....

 

[Kentjbkent]

Its really hard for me to understand why an attorney would really want to become famous through a case and at the same time ruin his own reputation as an attorney. Maybe I'm naive.

I think the key is in the underlined above....I don't think Baez has any clue he has ruined his own reputation...even though he didn't start out with a reputation...no one in Orlando knew who he was, save those in jail viewing the bulletin board....

I think Baez has a very distorted view of a lot of things....including his reputation at this point....

 

[Velouria]

No tomatoes here, and I respect your opinion, but Baez has been aware for more than a couple of years that this case is WAY above his expertise, and he has had NUMEROUS very well experienced defense attorneys join the team PRO BONO, but Baez has refused to relinquish any control and put himself in a position of LEARNING from any of them.....

He has passed up the opportunity of a lifetime (knowledge-wise) and THAT is his OWN fault!!!!

I cannot begin to list the knowledge I have gained from those more well educated than myself in certain areas, but starting with AZLawyer....have learned more from HER about the law and court proceedings than I knew in my 50 years....

Thanks AZ!!!!

:clap: Hear hear!

And I think Mr. Baez could have learned a thing or two from our own AZ, as well.
cough Vasco Thompson cough cough

 

[~n/t~]

I have no sympathy for Jose Baez and I do not feel his experts are to blame. It is Jose's responsibility to find experts who can support his defendant's case. Perhaps he would have had some success in doing so if he had taken the time to pin down exactly what her "story" is. I find myself wondering why more prominent experts have not surfaced to assist in this case and I realized because no one wants to be attached to this train wreck of a case. Given his experience (or lack thereof), he should have passed on this case.

Amen! I have no sympathy for him either. He's been accused of gamesmanship and the State is building a nice Sanction package against him. The professionals know the rules of the court and know the laws. Casey has Mason who has years of experience in Criminal law and could have taken the role of lead attorney. Furthermore, Sims has a heck of a lot more experience in cross examining medical experts than Baez will ever have in his lifetime.

Baez wants the fame. Sadly, it's not going to end well with him nor his client. In my opinion he will be disbarred and will have to revert to selling bikinis in the not too distant future.

Casey and Baez deserve each other. They're both made from the same cloth.

 

[~n/t~]

No tomatoes here, and I respect your opinion, but Baez has been aware for more than a couple of years that this case is WAY above his expertise, and he has had NUMEROUS very well experienced defense attorneys join the team PRO BONO, but Baez has refused to relinquish any control and put himself in a position of LEARNING from any of them.....

He has passed up the opportunity of a lifetime (knowledge-wise) and THAT is his OWN fault!!!!

I cannot begin to list the knowledge I have gained from those more well educated than myself in certain areas, but starting with AZLawyer....have learned more from HER about the law and court proceedings than I knew in my 50 years....

Thanks AZ!!!!

I agree. I've learned a lot about law from following cases and expertise from very knowledgeable posters on various boards.

When Judge Perry was reprimanding Baez, he wasn't even paying attention. He was busy chatting with Casey and the others at the table. How disrespectful is that?

I think Baez has Casey convinced she will go free and I truly believe she is falling for it. How ironic.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I would agree with yor suggestion IF JB was indeed a Victim of KC..however he is an "Officer of the COurt" is bound by Rules of the Law..and Sorry..But JB has been caught over and over side stepping and at times completely disregarding them..Astounding that CM a season professional with DP experience hasnt advised him (as it is HIS ROLE)..I have to assume none of the DT care one bit about anything but to save KC from that lethal injection...
Personally I would be very satisfied if KC spends 23/24hours a day living with herself..then move on and get sent to HE$$ for her actions!!

JB will be dealt with post trial, CM will retire and all the true "Innocents" will have to pick up the pieces of their lives..:maddening::maddening::maddening:

I truly wish charges could be laid against some of this stuff..i.e. Vasco Thompson..what a crock!! But KC (et al~) will slime everyone..and I'd bet my last dollar she will accuse JB of sexual abuse when this is all over..Wouldnt put it past her:loser:

Yikes..best I go sit on my hands:crazy::seeya:

Yeah what she said!!! And what does this say about the Florida Judicial System? Why even have the law about a death penalty qualified lawyer if he just sits there like a bump on a log?