2011.07.08 - Dateline NBC

[Whisperer]

These 3 jurors bought Baez hook, line and sinker. They were lazy, imo. They accepted his opening statement and then did not have to think about another thing.
Like the alt juror said about the supposed sexual abuse:
" You cannot ignore what you heard at the beginning. You already heard it and it is always in the back of your mind."

He remembers everything Baez said but conveniently forgets that ICA went to blockbuster the day Caylee drowned and had sex with BF, decomp found, Caylee's hair in trunk, and a shovel...hmmm. :banghead:

 

[kelian36]

Another thing, Mods please move if I'm in the wrong place , Baez talked with the utmost DISrespect to LE and other witnesses who took the stand. What kind of message did that send to other defense attnys? Did the show touch on that subject? tia

 

[Hisimage]

I didn't watch it but think I read maybe page 2 or 3 somebody said juror 2 said something about body language and watching Casey's. wouldn't that be a bit against the "rules"? Kind of like conducting your own investigation? To be honest its something that I would do, but if your basing a decision on body language then your way off. I think he was an alternate but is he an expert in body language?

 

[Lovejac]

I must be losing it. I thought that Clint's GF testified that Caylee was out on the balcony and opening the door at the apartment while her amazing mother was in Tone's bedroom.

My memory was right. It was Clint's girlfriend.

Also, KC had Caylee sleeping in the same bed with her and Ricardo. That's not a good mother!

 

[JennaB]

Is this the same guy who said she looked like a normal 22 year old? How many 22 year old people have "imaginary friends" (lies like a rug) and fakes having a job for 2 years? How normal is it to go on with your life like nothing happened after you child dies? I didn't follow this case for 3 years like many here have so I didn't have all the extra info and even I would never describe Casey as normal. I truly believe they went with whatever story they wanted regardless of whether or not it was supported by the evidence. Ever describing Casey as a normal 22 year old is proof.

Casey wasn't a really normal 22 year old like you mentioned. I thought the guy was an idiot to say that.

Casey lied about a lot of things to fit in with her peers and there was a lot that the jury never heard. Casey lied to several people about being attending a community college. Several of her friends were attending UCF and I think Casey wanted to feel as if she was the same level as them when it came to education.

When Casey started hanging around Tony and his friends, she lied again about her education. She told them that she a degree from Valencia Community College and that she was going to transfer to UCF. I think Casey was trying to impress Tony,Clint, Nate, Cameron and the others. Tony, Clint, Nate and Cameron all attended Full Sail University. Tony and Clint's majors were music business related. Tony stated that he wanted to work in the recording industry. Casey probably thought her having a job at Universal and going back to college would look really good to Tony and his Full Sail friends.

Casey had friends who weren't in college but had jobs. I think her pretend Universal job looked to good to her working friends. Amy H. seemed amazed that Casey was "working" at Universal.

That guy also should have realized that many 22 years olds with kids don't party that much. I'm 26 and years ago I had friends who became parents in their late teens or early 20's and none of them partied as much Casey did.

 

[mitzi]

This brings me back to dual discovery. I am not sure that was such a good idea on the prosecuters end....

Wasn't the decision to go with reciprical (sp) discovery, KC's decision? I think the state had to go along with it.

 

[laserdisc10]

He remembers everything Baez said but conveniently forgets that ICA went to blockbuster the day Caylee drowned and had sex with BF, decomp found, Caylee's hair in trunk, and a shovel...hmmm. :banghead:

Exactly. Discriminatory memory and observation

Hope he never applies for a job in law enforcement

 

[costalpilot]

..... The prosecutors had to focus on Casey's post-death behavior, which really didn't help their case......

maybe not. but it should have helped their case.

what did those 12 make of that 31 days = no big deal.

:banghead:REALLY????????????????????????:banghead:

 

[uklaw]

Wasn't the decision to go with reciprical (sp) discovery, KC's decision? I think the state had to go along with it.

Not to mention it goes to the consitutional rights of the Defendant to receive Exculpatory Material. It also seems to me that fundamental justice requires that the Defendant have access to (a) evidence prosecution tends to lead in evidence and (b) evidence relating to the case in the prosecutions hands.

 

[JennaB]

Did she steal from Caylee Anthony during the course of her life time? I think I heard some story that she stole from her piggy bank, I don't know if this was true but there was no record evidence of it. If there was evidence of it and the prosecution wanted in on record they should have elicited the evidence.

As to the issue of her not having a job, well at 9.2% unemployment in the U.S. if that was a form of Child Abuse, DCFS, LE and the courts are going to be busy.

She lied? Erm... well you get my point, that's not child abuse. Especially if it did not affect her child in any negative and significant way. TBH, it's just fanciful to suggest that amounts to child abuse.




Most of this is just simply a one-sided account of key evidence. Children co-sleep; taking her Caylee out and about whilst George and Cindy thought she was at work is not child abuse; college parties, etc are not the most conducive environment for a child but i have certainly heard of and seen worse, there is no evidence that the child was at rowdy frat parties til the wee hours; children do sometimes answer the door, try and get out on the balcony when they are not meant to, you can never be too careful.

Is there any evidence that KC attacked Caylee? No. Used a belt on her? No. Tried to poison her? No. Torture? No. Witheld food and water? No.

The view that she was a good mother, at least based upon the record evidence at trial, has merit.




See above. I would just add that even if KC took Caylee to parties and had her sleep in a bedroom while the party was ongoing would not amount to child abuse. It is not something that I would see is all that uncommon amongst single young mothers.

I am not saying I condone it but just because Casey was not married to Caylee's father, chaste until her wedding, going to church every Sunday, in bed at 10PM everynight, had dinner on the table every day at 5PM, etc does not mean she was a bad mother or guilty of child abuse or child neglect.

George told LE about the piggy bank theft and there was video of it.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

Perhaps he is the one some of you saw her winking at?

Maybe he was the juror that did the winking per the tweet that went out during the trial.

Everyone is talking about jury instructions. From what I can find, the jury instructions consist of can you exclude all, partial, or or none of the witness's testimony. all I found was one page. Is this what they should apply to each piece of evidence and testimony. Ohhh....man i'm not ignorant, but I wish there was some kind of logical matrix the jurors could have had to help. It sounds like they were lost and confused. No direction, so they just winged it. So sad that they didn't feel they could investigate and ask questions. Who pressured them for a quick decision? There was no hurry. If it was 6-6 for manslaughter, who caved, pressured others, and why?

Something I'm trying to figure out is this..From the jurors who have spoken they keep saying "if they had charged her with something else"

Did they not see the form? Was there a copy for each of them? Did the foreman have the only copy?

I just can't figure out why they keep saying that.

 

[Malini2001]

She slept in bed BETWEEN casey and her boyfriend Ricardo for a few weeks. THAT IS CHILD ABUSE, imo.
.

There is also evidence that she slept in bed with her bf Ricardo, with Caylee in between them for weeks. THAT is child abuse, imo.

Just a minor point in the whole sordid story, but Ricardo said that Casey slept between Ricardo and Caylee. Still not something a good mother would do.

 

[kelian36]

No matter how much some might like to believe otherwise, that would not be considered proof of a person being a terrible parent. And the prosecution would be laughed out of the courtroom if they pointed to that as evidence that Casey was an abusive mother.

Apparently not. The defense was NOT laughed out of the courtroom when they praised the mother of a 2 year old little girl who was found dead and thrown away like trash.
Apparently not when JB and CM acted like baffoons during trial with their insultingly snide comments.
A missing child who was found 15 houses behind her grandparents home, who was found with duct tape wrapped around her head 3 times, who was found with the blanket from her bed, was not found that way because of a loving parent.

31 days that child was missing yet wasn't reported missing by her mother.........was that neglect? hell yes.

 

[Whisperer]

No matter how much some might like to believe otherwise, that would not be considered proof of a person being a terrible parent. And the prosecution would be laughed out of the courtroom if they pointed to that as evidence that Casey was an abusive mother.

Can we agree that she was a fantastic mother up to the minute she killed her?

 

[kelian36]

Maybe he was the juror that did the winking per the tweet that went out during the trial.




Something I'm trying to figure out is this..From the jurors who have spoken they keep saying "if they had charged her with something else"

Did they not see the form? Was there a copy for each of them? Did the foreman have the only copy?

I just can't figure out why they keep saying that.

Omg I've wanted to scream what you posted--

DID they not SEE the form?!?!?!?

 

[LancelotLink]

My memory was right. It was Clint's girlfriend.

Also, KC had Caylee sleeping in the same bed with her and Ricardo. That's not a good mother!

I agree. An amazing mother does not have her child lying in the same bed as her and her boyfriend. That is abusive. And did anyone ever figure out where she stashed Caylee in the middle of that night? Cindy denies calling her or that Caylee was brought home, so was she in the car? Trunk?
I would suggest anyone who claims Casey was an excellent mother check out the DCS reports. Good grief.

 

[JennaB]

I agree with others, I think Caylee sleeping in the same bed as Ricardo and Casey was not a good thing at all. Ricardo's friend and roommate JP said in his depostion that he didn't think Casey was a good mom because of that.

I think JP was worried that Ricardo sleeping in the same bed as Caylee could lead to trouble later on and maybe he feared that Ricardo would be accused of abusing Caylee.

 

[Talina]

Yes it was Maria Clint's ex that testified about Caylee answering the door while Casey in Tony's bedroom and she also mentioned Caylee went out to the balcony.

I think out of the Tony's friends and connections, Maria was the only one who realized something was wrong with Casey. Maria seemed to think it was odd for Caylee to be outside the bedroom and in the living room with Clint and the other guys and she seemed really concerned about Caylee being out on the balcony.

Casey seemed to surround herself mainly with guys, not young women her own age. Granted she was friends with Amy but other than Amy (who had only known Casey for a few months), who did we see testify that was a female friend? And for that matter, how often did she have Caylee with her around Amy? Mallory's testimony was just bizarre. One one hand she says she and Casey were not all that close but then says she had an amazing bond with Caylee. How on earth would she be able to have that opinion if she and Casey were not that close.

Women are, in my opinion, more likely to notice and gauge whether another woman is a good mother. Yes, Tony and his roommates are now saying that they wondered where Caylee was all that time during the 31 days but guys that age, particularly ones that do not have children of their own, are not going to question it all that much other than think of it, question, then shrug it off. Women, on the other hand, are most likely going to delve a little more deeper and not too long begin to think this situation is just not normal and something is very odd here. It's too bad Maria wasn't there longer or didn't live there. I think if she had, the lid would have been blown off of this situation much sooner that it was. She noticed just the weekend she was there things were "off" a bit.

Nate did say on the Sean Hannity radio show this week that he said to Casey one time during this period "are you you have a daughter? I'm beginning to think that you don't really have one" or something to that effect. I can't remember his exact words. He said she just laughed it off, kept on cooking and said oh she's at yada yada yada (my yada not his - he said where Casey said she was) with the nanny. He said that he often thought there really wasn't a nanny cause he knows how expensive it would be for Caylee to have been with a nanny as much as Casey said she was. He said he usually just thought she was really with Casey's mom and Casey was saying nanny to look cool or something. He said thinking back on that conversation now he thinks it is just down right eery that she could have that kind of joking/laughing response to his comment now knowing what he knows (i.e. that Caylee was already dead and in that swamp on Suburban). It was a very interesting interview that he had with Sean Hannity. He was on the phone with him for about 30 minutes.

IMO

ETA - I forgot to mention that Nate also said he wanted to dispel the rumors out there that Tony did not like Caylee being around and had told Casey he did not want kids. He said what had actually been said is that their apartment was a "college guys" apartment and that they all felt that environment was not necessarily a good place for a toddler to be around but that they all, including Tony, really liked Caylee and enjoyed her being around when she was there. Yes, he said they had all said this to Casey.

So, in my mind, it's very clear why Caylee all the sudden became a problem for Casey. She was infatuated with Tony and his lifestyle. Ricardo didn't seem to have a problem with sleeping in the same bed with Casey and Caylee. Tony obviously did.

 

[sappysoul]

Susan Smith was a good mother and Ted Bundy was a swell guy who was a volunteer for the suicide hotline. IOW, a group of college guys describing Casey as a good mother means absolutely nothing. Just because you don't beat or berate your kid doesn't make you a good mother.

 

[MarthaM]

Can we agree that she was a fantastic mother up to the minute she killed her?

If you're asking me, then No.

As I've stated before, I didn't see any evidence that she killed her.