2015.06.28 Timestamp Indicated per Probable Cause Doc

[beach]

The time on the PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT is not "The precise TOD". There is no indication on that document of TOD (Time Of Death).

Exactly. I guarantee that DID NOT come from the medical examiner who performed the autopsy. They NEVER tie themselves to anything as precise as indicated on that probable cause statement. It would be impossible unless he was there when she took her last breath.

 

[IM4TRUTH]

I don't know if there is a link from NBC2 News or not (I am new at this finding links stuff) but they said the arrest warrant that was just issued in the last 1 1/2 hours says CWW bludgeoned TS to death. I will see if I can find a link and figure out how to post it.

 

[IM4TRUTH]

Here is the link: http://www.nbc-2.com/story/30266122/suspect-in-sievers-murder-extradited-from-missouri#.ViAlYPmrQhc

"The warrant for his arrest, dated Aug. 27, said Wright "did unlawfully, by an act imminently dangerous to another, and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, kill and murder Teresa Sievers, a human being, by bludgeoning her or inflicting severe blunt force trauma."

 

[lemondaktril]

Just another thought...
What if TS landed and while taxiing called MS to say she had landed safely. In conversation, MS says "oh honey, by the way, CWW called me a little while ago and he is in town unexpectedly with a friend of his. I told him he could borrow the van for a couple of days as I'm up here and I won't be needing it. I told him where I hid the keys (on top of the back left tire??? or something like that.) He is going to pick you up curbside and take you home and then you can drive the Mercedes to work in the morning. Call me from the van once he has picked you up so that I know you guys connected and then we can say our night time prayer with the girls." CWW and JR pick her up at the curb and drive her home as she calls MS. Maybe the 11:19 p.m. is when she hung up with MS. (Or, when the garage door goes up...every time my garage door opens I get a text to let me know and it is recorded on my alarm system...maybe they had the same system). They drive her home...one of them in the driver's seat, TS in the passenger seat and the other one sitting behind her in the perfect position for strangling her from behind or disabling her/knocking her unconscious with a strike to the head with a hammer. Would explain LE's interest in the van. Who knows, maybe CWW borrowed the van often when he was in town working on their computers which would explain his DNA being found in the van. If she landed at 11, only had carry on baggage and was picked up curbside she could possibly be home by 11:19 with very little traffic at that time of night.
Just a thought.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Would the 11:19pm be the time that the house alarm system noted an entry perhaps.

 

[IM4TRUTH]

Would the 11:19pm be the time that the house alarm system noted an entry perhaps.

It surely must be something that can be determined by the exact time. Even if either one of them (CWW or JR) were talking, they wouldn't say, we did it at 11:19 pm.

 

[bvstrish]

MOO, 11:19 pm is the last time she was seen alive on a video camera at the parking lot. The actual TOD will change when the GJ meets and decides the charges. The evidence will be reviewed by the GJ and the time of death will be established along with 1st or 2nd degree murder.

 

[Skinner]

Yeah, but I wouldn't worry too much about that discrepancy given my belief that TS really did call MS. (For the reason stated above.) He has no incentive to report a false time for a call that really occurred... especially since it's so easily verifiable when/if it did. (That is, the call itself is verifiable from phone records, even if who made the call isn't.) Seems more likely that he thought the call was at about 11:30 and it was really at 11:05 or whatever. Also possible that the timing got a bit messed up in the MS-->Skinner--> us game of telephone (i.e., maybe he said between 11 and 11:30 and Skinner said 11:30 to us or whatever; it didn't seem to matter that much when the TOD was assumed to be early morning and we didn't even know exactly where she made the call from).

All of the above is not to say that MS wasn't involved; I'm not sure. I just assume, either way, that call really happened. (Hell, maybe he told her she should call to say bedtime prayers specifically so he could alert CWW and JR that she was on the way.)

Thanks much for that very good interpretation. I could not have said it better.

I remember when I was writing my theory, that I was hedging on the 11:30 remark, but in my mind it was not a critical thing at that time. Even back then, I was thinking maybe I should have said that Mark said that he got a call from her when she landed which was sometime after 11:00 so I used that time 11:30 to allow for walking from gate to luggage, etc.

 

[Skinner]

Just another thought...
What if TS landed and while taxiing called MS to say she had landed safely. In conversation, MS says "oh honey, by the way, CWW called me a little while ago and he is in town unexpectedly with a friend of his. I told him he could borrow the van for a couple of days as I'm up here and I won't be needing it. I told him where I hid the keys (on top of the back left tire??? or something like that.) He is going to pick you up curbside and take you home and then you can drive the Mercedes to work in the morning. Call me from the van once he has picked you up so that I know you guys connected and then we can say our night time prayer with the girls." CWW and JR pick her up at the curb and drive her home as she calls MS. Maybe the 11:19 p.m. is when she hung up with MS. (Or, when the garage door goes up...every time my garage door opens I get a text to let me know and it is recorded on my alarm system...maybe they had the same system). They drive her home...one of them in the driver's seat, TS in the passenger seat and the other one sitting behind her in the perfect position for strangling her from behind. Who knows, maybe CWW borrowed the van often when he was in town working on their computers which would explain any DNA from him found in the van. If she landed at 11, only had carry on baggage and was picked up curbside she could possibly be home by 11:19 with very little traffic at that time of night.
Just a thought for another scenario!

With all this theorizing on who used TS phone, etc., I gotta tell you - for all the conversations I have had with Mark over the past decade since the "Patriot Act" was put in place to legalize the recording of our phones, and making transcripts of every phone conversation, in my mind there is no way in hell any type of false conversation (meaning, speaking candidly of crimes, or somebody using another's phone and they try to get away with the deceit) would have happened.

Wayne having done work requiring DHS clearance, and with all we know about his knowledge of digital footprints, just would never, ever, be part of a plan of his/theirs.

 

[LvsAMystry]

We don't know which family they were staying with. Mark has family up there, too.

I don't ever recall reading MS has family in CT? Is that confirmed?

 

[FelicityLemon]

Due to the new info regarding Dr. Teresa's TOD of 11:19pm, if it is accurate and a proven fact, I wonder if it was instead CWW who called MS from Dr. Teresa's cell to update MS. Otherwise the times don't seem to quite work. I am actually not even sure if there truly was a phone call made from Dr. Teresa's cell to MS the night of her the murder. do not recall where I read that. But, if it is fact that someone made a call from Dr. Teresa's cell or landline that night, it may have been CWW calling MS, imo.

I was thinking that the TOD wouldn't be this precise - down to the minute, but LE using this as a beginning of the crime encompassing the murder. For example, in the murder of the Savopoulos Family and Veralicia Figueroa, the crime began the day before either via a break-in (if that's how DW entered) or took the first person hostage. I don't remember seeing it and want to go look for those documents.

We won't learn her time of death until it's released by the medical examiner or in some court documents, and I'm not sure it would be this precise. A phone call definitely would mark the time, or the timestamp at Walmart or some notice from the security system?

 

[LvsAMystry]

Before everybody gets too carried away with the time cited on this doc - I am in NO WAY convinced that that exact time was when they believe she died EXACTLY. I personally believe that is the EXACT TIME they have proof that she was last ALIVE. (probably per her cell phone call, imo) That said, I do believe that LE has reason to believe she died not long afterwards. IOW, not long after they have proof that she was alive.

Dancing around it, but I tend to think that doc indicates the last time they have proof she was alive and also believe her TOD was not too long after they have that proof that she was alive. IMO, probably immediately upon arriving at her home. IDK, just my guess. However, there is no way on earth a medical examiner would cite a TOD down to a minute so precise as 11:19p unless they were on site when she passed away. And we know that didn't happen.

Agreed with being last known activity, probably the phone call, which works with the "about 11:30" timeframe

 

[Mountain Misst]

That may be the last doc we will see for a while - 11/16/2015 Arraignment (8:30 AM)

 

[IM4TRUTH]

That may be the last doc we will see for a while - 11/16/2015 Arraignment (8:30 AM)

We haven't even seen the last doc that NBC2 obtained. Where is Nin?

 

[FelicityLemon]

Not trying to split hairs, since I do believe the 11:19PM time is important, however, the time may not be the official TOD. Just my two cents after seeing this doc. Thanks NIN!

IMO, 11:19PM could be the timestamp on some type of evidence (cell phone data, security cam footage) that LE referenced in the arrest warrant, perhaps in the probable cause affidavit. Maybe the crime began at 11:19. For example if TS left the airport at 11:19 and they followed, or otherwise set out to Jarvis or arrived at 11:19PM with a criminal purpose. My best guess is traffic cameras produced the 11:19PM timestamp. But then again, I don't know if its common for TOD to be so specific. Would an ME be able to determine TOD down to the minute?

I don't think it's splitting hairs at all. Maybe that's because I wrote nearly the same as you before I saw your post! (hate it when that happens, lol!)

The ultra precise time of death happens in old movies when the victim's watch would be smashed when they died. :websleuther:

 

[Webjunkie]

Or perhaps TS was talking on the Van's Bluetooth at 11:19. Saying prayers with the girls on the 15-20 minute drive. Pulls up to the house and say's to MS, "well I'm home now."

 

[oscelot]

Is it possible the 11:19pm is from the video of the men at Walmart? Is the Walmart a 24hr store? Sorry if I missed this somewhere else.

 

[irishchook]

Would be a connection flight (Charlotte, Atlanta or Philadelphia), no direct flights. All flights from CT connect via same routes. So she could have come in 9:02pm (Philladelphia), 9:03pm (Atlanta), 10:12pm (New York), 11:08 (Boston)

The Boston flight would be closest, but getting out the airport and arriving in Bonita (Jarvis) by 11:19pm, is impossible. So, either she took an earlier flight at 10:12pm and would get home by app. 10:45pm, in which case the phone call would not have been made by Dr Sievers herself(!!), or she was already attacked in the airport parking lot/ garage. I am checking my notes if there was any other flight, but I seem to recall rather precisely, that the flights available were on minutes after the hour.

-Nin

My son flies in from Boston to Ft. Myers and it takes approx. 2-1/2 hrs. (non-stop)

 

[IM4TRUTH]

Is it possible the 11:19pm is from the video of the men at Walmart? Is the Walmart a 24hr store? Sorry if I missed this somewhere else.

Weren't they seen a day or two before the murder?

 

[ohreally]

When considering what time TS's flight was I think it is important to remember that flights very rarely land exactly at the time of their scheduled landing. This summer my son's flight arrived twenty minutes early, and it was a three hour flight.