4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[jepop]

Agree he knew where the upstairs bedroom was, MOO probaby info he could have put together from outside stalking.

I agree that outside stalking,together with viewing real estate photos, would have been enough to know and orient mind-wise and direction wise for Kaylee, Maddie's and Xana's rooms. Also such stalking could have been done from a car parked on Taylor Street for Xana and Kaylee, with binoculars, if he chose. For Maddie's room he would have needed to stalk from the tree line behind the house. I don't think it's unfeasible that he could have carried out the murders that night without having been inside before. With the dermination and desperation built from perhaps months of planning and observation, even though to a normal person it might seem impossible, I don't think it is by any means (MOO)

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

And WHO ELSE may be "connected?" What does that mean?
Is DD driver "connected" by making delivery that a.m? His ID?

perhaps not just that DD driver but the ones related to this:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20DoorDash%20Inc.pdf

one of my working theories - and jmo imo and I am not tied to any theory b/c we just don't have enough information imo jmo - is that BK had found ways to be a DD driver that involved the IDs of others - maybe just names with his pics? I cannot share links re what I've found about the potential security upgrades at DD, but they seem significant and the timing is right, so jmo imo there may be a clue there. This theory would give PC to get all the drivers' names, cars, pics, etc. and would explain the timing. as part of this, I think that the PCA was vaguely worded about DM not saying she recognized the driver.

By 12.6, the date of the DD warrants, LE had BK in their sites, and it's quite possible (likely even? idk?) that they showed DM the photo of BK and she recognized him as their erstwhile DD driver. And bingo... LE has some PC to get that info. As I said, this is only one working theory, ICBW totally, but it makes sense of the scope of the warrants, the requested info, and the timing (pre-arrest of BK, no PC for him yet so thy couldn't get his info.) Of course, another working theory is that someone(s) re DD are the CI that seems to exist imo jmo. edited to fix an annoying typo while probably still missing others

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

In the interest of more fully evaluating ER 404(b), I searched ID Supreme opinions. Imo jmo ime it's important to consider any evaluation through the lens of the specific state's rulings. My home state's Supreme Court skews differently than others, so I like to consider relevant angles. Plus, I've learned the hard way that one or two citations does not an argument make I'm sharing here in case someone is interested in evaluating the BK trial evidence re this rule:

https://isc.idaho.gov/opinions/46565.pdf

https://isc.idaho.gov/opinions/49980.pdf

 

[JenniD]

Just catching up here. My first impression is this is a lot of click bait. Nothing specifies it was one of the victims ID, just someone in connection to the murders. Could be BK’s

 

[maconrich]

Thank you for sharing this! I'm rather diagram dyslexic (is that a thing?) and this helped because I was able to see just how the stairs worked. He could so expediently have gone in the sliding door, gone upstairs, killed K&M, and left imo jmo - why go to Xana's room? what made that happen? is she the one who said 'someone's here' and he panicked? Why skip DM's room? She is so lucky! I can't imagine the terror she must live with. imo jmo And why not just sneak out and leave unless X&E (or at least X) came face-to-face with him? Imo jmo

When this was first described, and we were told they were all sleeping soundly, the was one horrible thing, but awake, aware, terrified - really layers of horror. imo jmo it's important for this full story to be told to make sense of it so we can collectively understand. that's jmo imo.

Agree with your points. This is the website that lets one stand on the stairs to the 3rd floor and see the top part of the stairs from the 1st floor in the living room (after doing some zooming in and rotating). Add the roomies pretending to be each other, and one can see the point where the top of Maddie's head becomes visible to someone standing on the stairs leading to the 3rd floor (before Xana / Ethan would have seen intruder). And there seemed to be a decent chance for intruder to go back up the stairs and hide on the landing. But apparently not what the intruder opted to do (hide and wait instead of attacking Xana / Ethan).

And BTW I looked at the search warrant info you pointed out in an earlier post till I reached the point of almost taking a sharpie to the wall in my computer room. Didn't come to any conclusions (maybe because I didn't draw on the wall!).

 

[Gemmie]

There weren't 10 of them. The choice was between " 10 cards" or "ID cards" depending on how you deciphered the writing. Yes, there is half a thread on it ways back! MOO
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generally and bouncing off your post.
For clarity's sake, the either "ID cards" or "10 cards" were found "...in a glove, in a box" in the PA house, not the car. And not in the glove box of the car. I just went through the return for the elantra from the PA Courts website and there are no ID cards mentioned in that return and also no cards are mentioned. We have a car registration and documents and some other stuff but no ID cards. At the end of that return is written the words "Nothing More" underlined and emphasised .

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022 | Cases of Public Interest | News & Statistics | Unified Judicial System of Pennsylvania

You are RIGHT! I stand corrected.

 

[maconrich]

You're welcome. It really is the only way I'm able to understand where everyone was and the path he might have taken - and the path he had to have taken at certain points. And you're right, he could have avoided the step if he hadn't gone into Xana's room, and the step was just outside DM's room (not Xena's). IMHO

Wow. I'm so very sorry to have misspelled Xana's name

 

[al66pine]

Any Matryoshka Seized?

.... IIRC there are already several pages from several threads ago discussing cards in a glove inside a box inside a glovebox..

snipped for focus @whiterhino

Items "in a glove inside a box inside a glovebox."

I wonder if the S-W Return also shows confiscation of nesting Russian dolls. (wink, j/k)

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

(maybe because I didn't draw on the wall!).

I just keep sorting and rearranging by scope and warrant date, trying to see what LE would have known and when, and the timing is based on the PCA and legit (AFAIK) media reports. Then I ask myself what PC could have gotten those warrants for those scopes on those dates. I throw out anything I know to be improbable (guessing, no probable cause, aliens, etc.). But with sealed affidavits, it's all reasonable speculation from there because the affidavits contain all the info we'd need to piece this together, but apparently the judge thinks it's more important to have a fair trial, protect the ID of a confidential informant, conceal police investigatory tactics, etc. so until the judge sees the error in that thinking (<< jk, I agree that those things do take precedence), I guess I'll just have to start drawing on walls, too.

And there seemed to be a decent chance for intruder to go back up the stairs and hide on the landing. But apparently not what the intruder opted to do (hide and wait instead of attacking Xana / Ethan).

editing to add: true enough. it makes me think it's possible he did come face-to-face with X and she tried to run back to her room maybe? idk. so sad.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Something in a glove in a box could as easily be ID cards in a brown jersey glove inside a 4"x4" cardboard box, IMO. or an ID glove inside a pop tart box. I was reading somewhere, I don't think it was here, it was in a surgical glove inside a box full of surgical gloves. Not necessarily true. I'm just trying to disrupt mental images and think "outside the box".

 

[Auntie Cipation]

A couple of thoughts. I'm in no way suggesting these ideas are what happened, just trying to identify whether they are possibilities that are at risk of being overlooked.

Perhaps BK spotted the ID and forgot all about the sheath? For some reason I am imagining that the ID belongs to either KG or MM for some reason.

If BK took it on a previous occasion I'm assuming it must have been old or expired ID otherwise wouldn't the owner report it missing or try to replace it?

Might it be possible that the ID was obtained by BK (stolen, found, whatever) in the weeks or months prior to the murders and then that became one of his focal points leading him to focus on that person and thus the house?

The article says it's the ID of someone connected to the homicides. So that limits it to either the killer/s or one of the victims. It certainly wouldn't be news if they found BK's own ID in his parent's house. So either a) Newsnation is twisting information to create a story out of thin air, b) there is an accomplice we don't know about yet, or c) it's a victim's ID. I guess we will find out in June.

Only once IIRC does Coffindaffer say "victim" when referring to whose ID it is. The rest of the time (again, IIRC) she/Cuomo/Geragos say "someone from the house" or "someone associated with the house."

Might this then suggest the ID may have belonged to one of the survivors in the house? Or one of Ethan's siblings, one of the girls' boyfriends, etc? They are all associated with the house and are indirect victims.

I recognize these are unlikely scenarios but I think (and someone PLEASE speak up if I am wrong) they can't yet be ruled out.

MOO

 

[whiterhino]

Any Matryoshka Seized?

snipped for focus @whiterhino

Items "in a glove inside a box inside a glovebox."

I wonder if the S-W Return also shows confiscation of nesting Russian dolls. (wink, j/k)

Well we don't know what sorts of digital evidence LE have uncovered but BK doesn't strike me as a black hat iykwim (fwiw I don't believe any viruses or nesting dolls were involved).

 

[maconrich]

I just keep sorting and rearranging by scope and warrant date, trying to see what LE would have known and when, and the timing is based on the PCA and legit (AFAIK) media reports. Then I ask myself what PC could have gotten those warrants for those scopes on those dates. I throw out anything I know to be improbable (guessing, no probable cause, aliens, etc.). But with sealed affidavits, it's all reasonable speculation from there because the affidavits contain all the info we'd need to piece this together, but apparently the judge thinks it's more important to have a fair trial, protect the ID of a confidential informant, conceal police investigatory tactics, etc. so until the judge sees the error in that thinking (<< jk, I agree that those things do take precedence), I guess I'll just have to start drawing on walls, too.





editing to add: true enough. it makes me think it's possible he did come face-to-face with X and she tried to run back to her room maybe? idk. so sad.

Using a white board where discounted things could be erased and other things could be rearranged might work better - esp if there are other people living in your house. I'm saving this message and will try doing it more your way.

With Xana, it is possible she saw or heard him (even though it might have been possible for him to hide so she wouldn't). Seems like it would have been more likely for them to come face to face in the kitchen - but unless she was between him and the door he still could have escaped. And yes it's terribly sad. IMHO, MOO

 

[jepop]

Maybe NN just realized that they didn't find 10 curls inside glove in box (in the list of items taken from inside the PA home - not the car), and upon this discovery they read SM theories about what and why he might have ID cards inside a glove in a box. And concluded he had ID card(s) of the victim(s). That my mind would even go there is a result of my opinion of NN - and my opinion of AB is even lower. MOO

Could be, and if so one might estimate a realisation that no IDs were listed in the car return inventory in about 6-8 months time. MOO

 

[maconrich]

Could be, and if so one might estimate a realisation that no IDs were listed in the car return inventory in about 6-8 months time. MOO

One can only hope lol! MOO

 

[Bogbacal2]

DBM

 

[al66pine]

ID "Connected" w the Murders?

It could also be that he had fake ID's for himself hiding his real identity.

@BondGirl007 Yes, an interesting possibility.
Maybe entirely bogus, fake name & address, fake org, self made?
Or BK may have slapped a photo of himself onto someone else's legit ID of some kind.

If so, either way, explains NN's "ID connected with" phrasing.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Using a white board where discounted things could be erased and other things could be rearranged might work better - esp if there are other people living in your house. I'm saving this message and will try doing it more your way.

not sure my way is better and lots of WSers disagree w/my thoughts, so I don't know that I'm on any right path, but otherwise there's no path at all except for quit asking questions, he did it, string him up, and while I do think he probably did it, I'm not able to quit asking questions, and I believe this is potentially a multifaceted story to unravel. I also believe in the legal system, and I know the pieces logically fit together. ICBW about most of this, probably am, but until I know what happened, I have to consider... jmo imo

With Xana, it is possible she saw or heard him (even though it might have been possible for him to hide so she wouldn't). Seems like it would have been more likely for them to come face to face in the kitchen - but unless she was between him and the door he still could have escaped. And yes it's terribly sad.

Sadly, after seeing that new diagram, I think this is quite likely ... and how terrifying. If true, even more questions, though... jmo imo

 

[Trebor5591]

perhaps not just that DD driver but the ones related to this:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20DoorDash%20Inc.pdf

one of my working theories - and jmo imo and I am not tied to any theory b/c we just don't have enough information imo jmo - is that BK had found ways to be a DD driver that involved the IDs of others - maybe just names with his pics? I cannot share links re what I've found about the potential security upgrades at DD, but they seem significant and the timing is right, so jmo imo there may be a clue there. This theory would give PC to get all the drivers' names, cars, pics, etc. and would explain the timing. as part of this, I think that the PCA was vaguely worded about DM not saying she recognized the driver.

By 12.6, the date of the DD warrants, LE had BK in their sites, and it's quite possible (likely even? idk?) that they showed DM the photo of BK and she recognized him as their erstwhile DD driver. And bingo... LE has some PC to get that info. As I said, this is only one working theory, ICBW totally, but it makes sense of the scope of the warrants, the requested info, and the timing (pre-arrest of BK, no PC for him yet so thy couldn't get his info.) Of course, another working theory is that someone(s) re DD are the CI that seems to exist imo jmo. edited to fix an annoying typo while probably still missing others

Excerpt from the above link:



"Highly intimate facts or statements, the publication of which would be highly objectionable to a reasonable person"

Now I can not stop wondering exactly what material was redacted!

 

[maconrich]

not sure my way is better and lots of WSers disagree w/my thoughts, so I don't know that I'm on any right path, but otherwise there's no path at all except for quit asking questions, he did it, string him up, and while I do think he probably did it, I'm not able to quit asking questions, and I believe this is potentially a multifaceted story to unravel. I also believe in the legal system, and I know the pieces logically fit together. ICBW about most of this, probably am, but until I know what happened, I have to consider... jmo imo



Sadly, after seeing that new diagram, I think this is quite likely ... and how terrifying. If true, even more questions, though... jmo imo

Your way has to be better than what I managed not to do. So many questions and uncertainties, and I agree they need to be addressed and hopefully answered. I also agree that the attacks on Xana / Ethan raise even more questions. I could be wrong, but I'm not convinced that they weren't targeted too. Targeted or intentionally sought out by the killer. IMHO, MOO