4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[arielilane]

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Are we allowed to discuss Pappa Rodgers? I interacted with him and he was ODD. I got the CREEPS immediately.

IMO, Pappa Rodger and the possibility that was BK's online username has been discussed here, but since there is no confirmation PR = BK, we can only speculate on connections that are reasonable and have a link from an approved MSM source.

Here is one (heavy.com was approved by Mods as a source a few months ago on this case, IIRC, hopefully that still stands, but I will self report my post to Mods to seek reapproval/clarification):

Pappa Rodger: Bryan Kohberger Theory on Idaho Murders Facebook Posts.

"The comments and questions posted by the now-deleted Pappa Rodger Facebook page have gone viral as people debate whether or not Pappa Rodger could have been Kohberger himself, with some people even creating Facebook groups into the unproven theory. Some people have called the comment poster Pappa Rodgers, Papa Rogers or Pappa Rogers, but screenshots show the writer used the name Pappa Rodger."

 

[StephanieH]

It was suggested by someone in the previous thread that it is too early to discuss an Alford plea. I would go much further and say that an Alford plea is a complete nonstarter.

It’s a plea bargain. It can’t happen without prosecution agreement.

Is there anyone here who actually believes that Bill Thompson would allow BK to enter such a plea and then for the rest of his life write prison letters and books extolling how he pled guilty because he had been framed, and moreover say that the prosecution had to know about the stitch-up because they let him allocute to being factually innocent?

I’m not saying any plea deal is impossible. (Although I think it very unlikely.)

My opinion is that a plea deal involving the Alford plea is as close to impossible as I can imagine. (Having proved himself in glittering style recently, schooling clearly has the skills to offer a more vibrant picture of this near impossibility.)

It depends, I am very sure that the prosecution has everything they need to win a guilty verdict, but…juries can be weird about the DP, especially when the defendant is white and intelligent. So the prosecution could take a plea if it’s life WO parole. I don’t think BK would necessarily be safe in prison, though. He will be a big fish in a small pond, and someone will want to Dahmer him. Plus, BK will have to starve or eat meat which brings me a small bit of joy.
Deborah Greene, who set fire to her house with her kids inside, took an Alford plea. She got life WO parole.

 

[Derph]

Bryan Kohberger’s family searched his car for evidence​

Bryan Kohberger’s sister feared he was involved in Idaho murders

Sources told NBC’s Dateline that the accused killer’s family searched his white Hyundai Elantra for possible evidence of the Idaho college murders

www.independent.co.uk

Bryan Kohberger’s sister feared that her brother was involved in the stabbings of four University of Idaho students before police swooped on their parents’ home and arrested him for murder, according to a bombshell report.

Sources told NBC’s Dateline that one of the accused killer’s older siblings grew increasingly suspicious of her brother and his behaviour when the family gathered to spend the holidays together.

Her suspicions were so great that – at one point – several family members searched Mr Kohberger’s white Hyundai Elantra for possible evidence of the crime, they said.

Bryan Kohberger’s sister feared he could be involved in Idaho murders before sudden arrest

Sources told NBC’s Dateline that the accused killer’s family searched his white Hyundai Elantra for possible evidence of the crime

news.yahoo.com

But, during his time at home, his family members noticed that he was behaving somewhat bizarrely.

The source said that Mr Kohberger was constantly wearing latex gloves, including inside their own home.

One of his two older sisters began to wonder if he could have played a part in the murders – and, at one point, she raised her concerns with her other family members.

She “loudly pointed out” that, at the time of the murders, her brother was living just a few miles from the crime scene and that he drove a white Hyundai Elantra – the make and colour of vehicle at the centre of the investigation.

Along with his bizarre tendency to wear latex gloves at all times, she believed that the family should consider that Mr Kohberger might have killed the four victims, the source said.

Mr Kohberger’s father allegedly defended his son and insisted he could not have been involved.

But the concerns were clearly big enough for several of the family members to reportedly decide to search the 28-year-old’s vehicle to look for possible evidence.

IF that's the case BK was under surveillance at the time no? They should have observed the family searching the car. We'll likely never know until the case sees trial.

 

[Nila Aella]

The prosecutor requested defendant produce an alibi in the latest request for discovery (all caps in the request)

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/052323%20States%20Request%20for%20Discovery%20Disclosure%20%20Alibi%20Demand.pdf

FURTHER, THE STATE HEREBY DEMANDS OF THE DEFENDANT NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI PURSUANT TO IDAHO CODE 19-519 AND IDAHO CRIMINAL RULE DATED this 23 day of May, 2023

According to idaho code 19-519 10 days which will be June 2 unless the court directs otherwise. MOO

Section 19-519 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

At any time after arraignment before a magistrate upon a complaint and upon written demand of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant shall serve, within ten (10) days or at such different time as the court may direct, upon the prosecuting attorney, a written notice of his intention to offer a defense of alibi. Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi.
(2) Within ten (10) days after receipt of the defendant’s notice of alibi but in no event less than ten (10) days before trial, unless the court otherwise directs, the prosecuting attorney shall serve upon the defendant or his attorney a written notice stating the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom the prosecution intends to rely to establish the defendant’s presence at the scene of the alleged offense and any other witnesses to be relied on to rebut testimony of any of the defendant’s alibi witnesses.
(3) If prior to or during trial a party learns of an additional witness whose identity, if known, should have been included in the information furnished under subsection (1) or subsection (2) of this section, the party shall promptly notify the other party or his attorney of the existence and identity of such additional witness.
(4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.
History:
[19-519, added 1978, ch. 301, sec. 1, p. 758.]

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

..

The total population. 3% of the population has a diagnosis that causes symptoms of derealization and depersonalization.

It's probably higher. That's just the major diagnoses (VSS, schizophrenia, DID, DPDR). Estimates for schizophrenics, alone are between 1% and 3% of the human population. Most epidemiologists put it at around 1-2% for the Western cultures, some say 3% just for schizophrenia. Some studies say 1-2% for DID (i think it's closer to 1%). VSS is less than 1% (according to the research over time). DPDR is just under 2%. And that's not an exhaustive list. Nor are all these disorders chronic; some are intermittent, but I'm speaking of the percentage of the world's population who has the symptoms of depersonalization and derealization, because I believe many murderers and other violent offenders are in this state when they commit their crimes.

Roughly 200,000 Americans experience an episode of this on any given day. Stress and anxiety can trigger it. Some people find it so common in their lives, that it becomes ego syntonic (they view it as the normal state of affairs). Many, however, upon coming out of this state are alarmed and surprised (ego dystonic) at their own behavior.

Some researchers think that about half of Americans have had at least 1-2 episodes of this (often after a shocking or extremely startling event).

It is also associated with depression. But I mention it here because it is generally considered to be part of VSS.

Derealization has been described as viewing oneself and events around oneself as if in a movie, sometimes as if outside one's own body, but not necessarily. It can lead to a person speaking about themselves in the third person, or "narrating" events to themselves as they occur. Some sufferers believe they are in a dream.

IME and from my research.

Could also be simple partial seizures, perceived as depersonalization, derealization or out-of-body experience. Problem is, that when person says, "I dissociate", five different people might be describing five different symptoms.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

IF that's the case BK was under surveillance at the time no? They should have observed the family searching the car. We'll likely never know until the case sees trial.

Good point, @Derph, my thoughts go there too.

However, we don't know when or how closely LE started surveilling BK at home in PA "exactly", IIRC it was "within days" of his arrival (early statements by PA LE, IIRC, no link at hand now, but will look), nor do we know when his sister(s) arrived, became suspicious, etc.

Though if it all happened like that (unconfirmed sources), and they did search his car (wow!), perhaps LE did know, and their DNA in his car (unless they wore gloves and caps?) was collected by LE and eliminated as unkown DNA and/or familial DNA but not his, through testing.

Mind boggling, IMO, this case is so complex, and you're right, we may never know, with secret GJs and sealed warrants and redacted motions, etc.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

First the DNA is amplified. There are dozens of different algorithms for then analyzing the nucleotide sequences. Every living organism is a bit different from all other organisms. Obviously, a lot of DNA is shared among life forms (we are 60% the same as bananas; 99% the same as chimpanzees). So, the human genome project looks at the *other* genes to ascertain first that we're looking at a human. Each allele in the human genome is surrounded by nucleotides that are not part of the code - they tell us a lot, though (as they are not selected for and ride along in a population, helping us to distinguish ancestry).

So we look at the actual alleles. One would be the allele for hemoglobin which has about 500 variations worldwide. Most people have two different alleles there (one from mom, one from dad). All the similar alleles are looked at. It doesn't take long before we have an individual DNA analysis for a person. If we found 3 different alleles for this trait, it would mean that more than one individual was involved (having an extra chromosome is a serious problem and rarely results in normal physiology). Naturally, we'd want to see more than one example of this kind. Different algorithms are applied in different labs, but as the data comes in, we know how to string all the alleles together, because the human genome is well studied (we know the length and the basic codons that are essential to each allele - we look, again, at the uniquely human alleles, which are about 2700 alleles, each made up of thousands or hundreds of thousands of individual base pairs of nucleotides - you may have learned those as A,T, C and G). One gene can have up to 200 million bases. Others have only a few hundred. We look hard at those long ones.

We now know that all organisms have mutations - and at a higher rate than previously thought.

So, to make it brief: we look for alleles that are unique and we look for the complete genome through our knowledge of what an allele is and what so-called "junk DNA" is (the part that separates the alleles - although we now know that this DNA may actually provide certain instructions to the body). If we compare relatives, the average person is about 50% identical to their parents in overall allele function, but may have a single point mutation somewhere in these millions of bits of data. This person will pass that on to their own offspring - but a point mutation is likely to occur somewhere else. Many point mutations are neutral in the context of a long allele.

Siblings usually share 50% of those alleles. Half-siblings, about 25%. Two different humans will not have the exact same alleles. So looking for a second source of DNA means first making sure that the DNA Is completely mapped and that there are no more than 2 alleles per location. Three alleles that fit into a location (and remember, hundreds of thousands of alleles are known and in the algorithm already) is a sign that there's another contributor. Zero extra alleles means it all comes from one person - but even, then, there are second and third ways of checking to see that it's one individual.

Hope that helps. In Kohberger's case, I'd be so interested to see if he has any mutations in the area that controls the visual cortex (where VSS is thought to operate). Of the alleles that are unique to humans, a lot of them do have to do with the brain. Interestingly, alleles are used and reused in various combinations in many different body functions (so an unusual visual cortex allele might be associated with several different outcomes, in terms of physiological traits).

Certain regions of human DNA have such high variability (like the hemoglobin gene) that it's fairly easy to see whether just one human is involved; if it were only that one locus/allele, of course, the chances would be about 1 in 500 of uniqueness - but there are several other locations with even more alleles - even for eye color, there's not just one gene for brown eyes or blue eyes - there are way more for brown than for blue, but there are many for each of those; we also know exactly where to look within the context of bits of DNA for those alleles, even if the DNA is not in chromosomal form). So if we look at 2000 locations, with up to a power of 300-1000 (available alleles) we get a very large number: 2000 to the 300th power is huge). So, if even ONE stray allele (extra) is found in this area, one allele with a tiny difference from the two others expected - it's two people.

And the hemoglobin gene does not affect survival - each of those alleles is fine; but some are ancient (1 million years old - coming to us from a pre-human population) and some are relatively new ones (that is another way of estimating ancestry). Y chromosome is another interesting system, as it is a small, compact chromosome that is often found entire in a sample. Finding two different Y chromosomes in a sample means two different people.

HTH. I know it's long. What the computer does is insert its "knowledge" of both "junk" DNA and the human genome into the analysis of what is found on the swab. Most times, long bits of a chromosome are still intact, but even if not, the computer recognizes which allele goes where, as they serve no purpose in a living organism other than to keep the organism alive and to build the body structure we see with our eyes. Each location is slightly different, IOW; and then the alleles are different too.

 

[10ofRods]

MOO has to be some link to subpeona parents.
She was found 35 minutes from BKs parents home.

If the parents are the alibi, that's a big deal. I'd hate to be them (on the stand, under oath).

Body was only found recently. Did they rapidly convene a GJ? Because...they had evidence of something?

Some of you have predicated something like this. I'm floored.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

IMO, Pappa Rodger and the possibility that was BK's online username has been discussed here, but since there is no confirmation PR = BK, we can only speculate on connections that are reasonable and have a link from an approved MSM source.

Here is one (heavy.com was approved by Mods as a source a few months ago on this case, IIRC, hopefully that still stands, but I will self report my post to Mods to seek reapproval/clarification):

Pappa Rodger: Bryan Kohberger Theory on Idaho Murders Facebook Posts.

"The comments and questions posted by the now-deleted Pappa Rodger Facebook page have gone viral as people debate whether or not Pappa Rodger could have been Kohberger himself, with some people even creating Facebook groups into the unproven theory. Some people have called the comment poster Pappa Rodgers, Papa Rogers or Pappa Rogers, but screenshots show the writer used the name Pappa Rodger."

Pappa Rodger has now been mentioned by MSM (Dateline) so I think we can discuss. I have discussed the FB persona quite a bit. There are more articles than just Dateline, I believe.

The account was deleted after BK was arrested, but fell silent when he was arrested. I believe there were interactions between FB and the Latah County investigators.

Pappa Rodger is, I believe, the right spelling. Again, we don't really know, but the MSM is interested in it - and there was interest from LE in the account, as well.

IMO.

 

[wary]

Personally, I believe the DP or LIPWP should be left to the victim's family to decide, not left in the hands of the prosecutor. IMO, I think 3 of the 4 families would agree to the DP.

I feel strongly that the family of victims should have a minimal part in deciding punishment. Our society should not be governed by private vengeance or private forgiveness.

MOO—passionately believed

 

[Cool Cats]

IF that's the case BK was under surveillance at the time no? They should have observed the family searching the car. We'll likely never know until the case sees trial.

Bryan Kohberger was home for 11 days before cops started watching him

Kohberger, 28, was arrested on December 30 in connection with the fatal stabbings of four University of Idaho students.

www.newsweek.com

The family apparently had time to search his car before LE even got around to surveilling the house.
investigators began physical surveillance of the property and area of 119 Lamsden Drive, Chestnuthill Township, and in the early morning hours of December 27, 2022, observed Bryan Kohberger walking near this residence."

However, the probable-cause affidavit released after Kohberger was arrested on December 30 stated that the 28-year-old's vehicle was observed arriving at his parents' home in Pennsylvania on December 16, 2022, at approximately 2:26 p.m. local time.

So this could be obstruction of justice ? If they took and hid things? Doesn't say what they did with all the items. There has been talk of Bryan having washed the car. Not sure what these family members did with the car items. Turned him in? Protected him? Article not clear.

I need to look for other articles.

 

[watson1]

Dana Smithers body was found around April 27, 2023 and on May 1 it was announced the body had been positively identified. IMO some evidence must have been found on or with the body for the Prosecutor to immediately put the case in front of a Grand Jury - within 3 weeks. Given that Kohberger deliberately left the sheath as a "calling card" in Idaho, I'm speculating there was something with the Smithers' body that connected Kohberger. Likely Kohberger was questioned about the PA case by investigators in Idaho, and gave an alibi, implicating his parents. So the parents were subpoenaed to testify about the night Smithers went missing, and Brian's whereabouts at the time. It is very abnormal for a case to go in front of a Grand Jury this quickly. Given the timing in the Idaho case, it makes sense a PA murder charge is being built as timely as possible. Prosecutors are ensuring he will never be free again...just my opinions.

 

[al66pine]

C. With or Without Cedilla?

... Lee and la are plain in terms of how to pronounce! That's really too bad that the Gonçalves's were there and had that happen. ...
IMO.

snipped for focus @10ofRods
Recalling in early days of this case, when a post --- sorry, forgot whose --- said Kaylee's last name was Portuguese, I wondered why the c had no cedilla in some MSM written reports, IIRC. Some reporters pronounce as GonZalves, some as GonSalves.

Anyway, earlier today I noted you are a precise writer, and sure enough, here in above post, you are including the cedilla.
I wonder how Goncalves (my keyboard has a cedilla. Somewhere. IDK where.) members themselves pronounce the name & if they use the cedilla.

Enough about names & pronunciations, back to more of substance on the case.

 

[insearchoflight]

Was one of the ID cards in glove box this woman who was found deceased? Pure speculation and mooooo

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Was one of the ID cards in glove box this woman who was found deceased? Pure speculation and mooooo

Something made them look, IMO, and subpoena the parents.....MOO

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Only 34 minutes from his town to hers (in PA)....and I believe DeSales University is south of there.... MOO, IMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Are we allowed to discuss Pappa Rodgers? I interacted with him and he was ODD. I got the CREEPS immediately.

I guess we're allowed to discuss Pappa Rodger(s) as allegedly being BK, since they are linked in MSM.

I can't imagine what it was like interacting with him....

I admire your bravery @x_files !

I saw a screenshot of 1 post of his, and may never get over it

 

[Jber]

I appreciate these discussions & the opportunity to learn!

For me, the single source male DNA on the sheath button is powerful. Is it possible BCK’s DNA got there as a previous owner? Anything is possible.

Is it possible a theoretical “new” owner/murderer managed to handle & use that sheath without leaving any of their DNA? Again, anything is possible, but for me, that feels highly unlikely, MOO.

And when considering all the other known points you reviewed, the theory that BCK’s DNA was left on the sheath as a previous owner doesn’t feel reasonable to me. MOO

Of course, everything has to be presented in court with the defense having a chance to address.

I know this has been addressed in previous threads many times, & I apologize for asking again, but I’d appreciate it if one of our forensic WSers could again explain in general terms what’s involved in separating mixed DNA samples? How difficult/easy it is, how time-consuming or not it is, etc. Please feel free to link to a previous post rather than reinventing the wheel — I’m happy to read what’s already been shared but still haven’t mastered the Search function. TIA!

Hi, I’m not verified yet (I submitted a request), so you can take this answer on DNA mixtures as just my opinion

“Separating mixed DNA samples” can actually refer to a few different things, but I’m going to answer from the perspective of dealing with the DNA data - i.e. a DNA profile that was generated from a mixture of DNA from multiple contributors.

These days most forensic labs work with software packages that are specifically designed to assist with the interpretation of mixed DNA profiles. Depending on the type of software used, a DNA analyst may be able to 1) try to ‘deconvolute’ the mixture profile into its component parts (e.g. determine which parts of the profile came from person A versus person B), or may only be able to 2) take a reference profile from a known person (e.g. a suspect) and compare it to the mixed DNA profile to develop a statistic regarding the likelihood of getting that particular mixed DNA profile if the known person is a DNA contributor to it (vs a random person in the population). The software isn’t applicable to all the different types of DNA profiles you can generate in a forensic case - but for the most commonly typed forensic marker set, one of these software packages are what is used by most (not all!) labs these days.

As to how easy or difficult it is, or how time consuming it is - it really depends on the complexity of the mixture. That is: the number of DNA contributors, the quantity of DNA from each contributor, the quality of the DNA from each contributor (is it degraded?), the specific method used to generate the DNA profile (how many loci, and how discriminatory are they?), the overall profile quality, etc. A two-person mixture can often (not always!) be relatively easy, and in some software packages could take a minute or less of software run time - though review of the results by a trained analyst will still take more time. By contrast, higher order mixtures (say, 5 or 6-person mixtures) are much more complex and could take a software package many (12? 20? more?) hours to run… and the results (if the software doesn’t crash) might not be informative at all. Most forensic labs performing criminal casework in the U.S. currently limit the types of mixtures that they will try to interpret, either by profile quality, the estimated number of contributors to the mixture, or both. Some DNA profiles are simply too poor, and some mixtures too complex, to obtain informative results using currently available methods.

I hope that helps answer your questions. And again, my opinion only.

 

[10ofRods]

..

Could also be simple partial seizures, perceived as depersonalization, derealization or out-of-body experience. Problem is, that when person says, "I dissociate", five different people might be describing five different symptoms.

YES.

Esp. with VSS. It's a peculiar disorder, but so is Bipolar (both investigated as seizure disorders, in part because anti-seizure medication seems to help individuals with those diagnoses - sometimes).

Dissociation includes a general category (where the patient/suffered doesn't explain well), and then there's depersonalization and derealization, where the researcher/doctor gets a more specific narrative from the patient. Or administers a written test of symptoms. Or does a careful interview.

There are likely at least 5 different subcategories of dissociation. All of the science is imperfect, but still, we need to know more about the minds of people in this category.

Anti-seizure meds help VSS, bipolar and DPDR patients, apparently.

It's a promising area of research for trying to prevent all manner of mental breakdowns/acting out of several types.

IMO.