4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

[10ofRods]

Thank you so much for the answer. Just one question that is still unclear to me.

Here it says that 99.6% of DNA for all people on Earth is identical (National Institute of General Medical Sciences.)

So if they had a full DNA profile from the sheath why were investigators building the family tree to start with?

Because if you have someone's full DNA you just take his father's DNA and with 100% certainty you can say if that person is your father or not.

This is my question, will be so grateful if you can clarify it for me.

Because that remaining .04% or so is still thousands of data points, which define each individual on Earth (except identical siblings - but sometimes, even they have 1 or 2 unique variations).

We are 99.9% the same as chimpanzees.

95% or so the same as my little avatar companion.

And 60% the same as bananas. It takes me several lectures (about 4 weeks worth to explain just vertebrate evolution in these terms). We're possibly about 99.68 percent the same as Neanderthals (with whom we overlap and their genes form addition ways of marking individual heritage).

If you took DNA and stretched out the DNA in one human cell, it would reach to the moon and back 1500 times. There are 24,500 gene addresses in the human genome, and at each of those spots, we have 1-2 genes. That means we have about 2,400 unique gene addresses not in the chimp genome. WIthin those 2,400 uniquely human slots, we look for unique alleles (one of the genes involved in making hemoglobin has at least 500 variations; while we hear about there being only 2-3 eye colors, in fact there are many genes for brown (each different from the others) and quite a few for the reduction in melanin that causes blue - and so on. One's parents only have (at most) 2 of the alleles for hemoglobin each (and they pass on 1). The many individual probabilities are about 2400 to the 100th power at least. This is theoretically infinitely individual humans, because new alleles (it turns out in recent research) appear more often than we think.

In regards to those 480-500 alleles for the red pigment part of hemoglobin, some people in Britain share ancient alleles with a now-extinct species from Asia! Whereas, chimps and Neanderthal have minor variations that don't appear in us (for chimps, we diverged about 8 million years ago from a common ancestor - so big divergence in terms of the alleles themselves for chimps).

But we are really speaking of the gene map in general when we give such percentages. For many of the slots, all life has the same alleles (or very similar ones). Animals resemble animals more than they do plants; all animals are fairly similar; we mammals are just minor variations on theme.

 

[taml]

BARD goes to trial level but to me he looks very guilty.

So much evidence against him that all his defense can do is try to get evidence thrown out on technicalities.

Example

1.) An officer didn't follow protocol so his evidence is tainted.

2.) Some error occurred in police identifying the vehicle, thus erroneously focusing on BK.

3.) Faulty cell phone data.

2 Cents

Guilty

 

[Nila Aella]

Anne Taylor wants 3 things:

1.) Documents pertaining to Kohberger’s cellphone location data.

2.) Determinations a forensic analyst made about the make and model of the suspect’s vehicle.

3.) Training schedules for three Idaho State Police officers involved in the investigation.

Kohberger defense wants evidence records state is withholding in Idaho homicide case

Records the defense is seeking include those pertaining to Kohberger’s cellphone location data.

www.yahoo.com

From @arielilane post earlier: Alex Caprariello summary

AT said 2 ISP officers.

State is not willing to give us those training records, Taylor said. The three police officers made critical decisions, and records will help explain the process. Two are ISP officers. Imperative for us to understand how they made decisions.

https://twitter.com/alcaprari23

She also mentioned third officer that was at the autopsies

Defense pushing back about the three officer's training records. Says it doesn't matter if they will be called as witnesses if it goes to trial, they are still witnesses to the case. One officer assisted in the search at 1122 King Road. Did follow-up investigations, signed lab agreements and collected evidence. Second officer did interview with key witness expected to testify. Also mentioned a specialty of working with trauma victims. Interview of key witness was one of multiple with the same witness by other officers. Defense says it may subpoena the officer if it goes to trial. Third officer did dozens of interviews, including after Kohberger arrest. The officer attended autopsy proceedings, did follow ups on tips. Made decisions about tips given to law enforcement.

https://twitter.com/alcaprari23

The second motion to compel contains a request about the autopsy records #8

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061523%20Defendants%20Second%20Motion%20to%20Compel%20Discovery.pdf

MOO

 

[I'm Nobody]

Sorry, playing catch-up. RE: Stolen phone story

Apparently BK stole his sisters phone and it became a police matter because his father reported.

Idaho college killings suspect was first arrested in 2014, records show

Idaho college killings suspect Bryan Kohberger was first arrested in 2014, records show.

abcnews.go.com

WOW. BK threatened his loving father? His father told the police BK warned him which says to me Michael K. was disturbed by what BK said to him. Wondering if MK was a little afraid of BK?

"According to the records, Michael Kohberger told law enforcement Bryan had warned him
'not to do anything stupid"'
after learning his son had taken the phone, adding that his son had struggled with drug addiction."

My parents never once hit me in my entire life, but if I had warned either of them not to do anything stupid after I did something stupid, to this day I believe they would have smacked me for saying that. And I would have deserved it.
NO, different generations don't get a pass.

MOO.

 

[U.N. Known]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673653833149607936

This video is a small example of the reason why even mainstream coverage leads to juror bias.
Though BK was wearing a suit in the last court hearings, all of the 2023 media coverage of him dressed in orange jailhouse couture. They could have shown him in the suit or used clips from the last two hearings (prior to 6/27), but I highly suspect that there was an executive decision not to.

I wish MSM was neutral; there are too many people who never go beyond those short news clips. Even those who do are often easily persuaded (manipulated) to whichever way the media wind is blowing.

 

[Kaylison]

This video is a small example of the reason why even mainstream coverage leads to juror bias.
Though BK was wearing a suit in the last court hearings, all of the 2023 media coverage of him dressed in orange jailhouse couture. They could have shown him in the suit or used clips from the last two hearings (prior to 6/27), but I highly suspect that there was an executive decision not to.

I wish MSM was neutral; there are too many people who never go beyond those short news clips. Even those who do are often easily persuaded (manipulated) to whichever way the media wind is blowing.

MOO, but showing him in a suit with gel styled curls and manicured brows is just as manipulative. There are plenty of studies about "suspect attractiveness" creating juror bias. And while I find bk creepy, he oddly has leagues of fans on some of the social media groups I've unfortunately waded into.

 

[schooling]

This video is a small example of the reason why even mainstream coverage leads to juror bias.
Though BK was wearing a suit in the last court hearings, all of the 2023 media coverage of him dressed in orange jailhouse couture. They could have shown him in the suit or used clips from the last two hearings (prior to 6/27), but I highly suspect that there was an executive decision not to.

I wish MSM was neutral; there are too many people who never go beyond those short news clips. Even those who do are often easily persuaded (manipulated) to whichever way the media wind is blowing.

Just look at the NYPost anytime a minority or someone who's economically challenged commits a crime vs when it's not. Go all the way back to the infamous Times OJ Simpson cover (he did do it though).

The media loves this . It's how they get clicks and gain interest. Everything is treated like the plot to a movie.

Evil sells.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673905003843710977

 

[Charlot123]

The equivalent would be closer to one fingerprint found on the inside of the snap of the sheath of a knife designed for soldiers to kill with,found beneath a victim murdered with that kind of knife.

Yes , surely. I believe that fingerprints are the closest analogy to the DNA. Unique to the person; might mean a lot if found at the crime scene. Can be lifted, processed, compared. Can be full or partial. At the same time, an object bearing a fingerprint might indicate that the person had been in the house; in the absence of any other evidence tying up the suspect to the house/victims, there is a chance that the object bearing the fingerprint had been intentionally placed where it was found.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If the suspect is guilty, the arrest means justice and protection of the society. If he is not and has been framed, the situation is horrible. How does one tease the truth out given the sheer amount of residents, the fact that it was a party house, and the complexity of the students' lives?

ETA: the case has been incredibly sensationalized. I am left only with PCA which is minimalistic. But there is nothing else to rely upon so far.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

No family members of the #Idaho4 victims appear to be in Latah County courtroom today. #Kohberger

Defendant Bryan #Kohberger just entered courtroom with his attorneys. He's wearing a suit and tie again. Judge John Judge is on the bench, and Prosecutor Bill Thompson is handling the case on the behalf of the state of Idaho.

Judge is talking about revised gag order. Prosecutors and defense and any "agents" are affected by this order. Some media think that doesn't apply to law enforcement, but it does, he said.

Judge said law enforcement will be included in order, along with investigators, just to make definitions clear. Retained witnesses will be included. Judge doesn't want trial to be in the media.

Cameras are in courtroom right now. People have been pushing the envelope, judge said. Cameras can't be turned to top of tables where notes sit. Don't focus on solely on defendant, judge advises. Back off, and make sure you capture totality of what's happening in court.

Defense attorney Anne Taylor is outlining what motions her team would like addressed today. Judge taking notes.

Discovery process now being discussed. She's seeking an order that defense receives discovery. Prosecutor hasn't done something wrong, she said. Kohberger's team asks for discovery when they believe it exists.

We have come to an impasse in a few areas, Taylor said. The purpose of discovery is to prevent an unfair trial or a trial by surprise. It protects the defendant's 6th amendment rights. Several things are still needed from PA, such as training records of three specific officers.

State is not willing to give us those training records, Taylor said. The three police officers made critical decisions, and records will help explain the process. Two are ISP officers. Imperative for us to understand how they made decisions.

Taylor said Kohberger's team wants info on FBI investigation and how cellphone records made it into the probable-cause affidavit. She wants an order with a date to get those records.

We do not have those records yet, your honor, Taylor said. Information was used to obtain search warrants. Order from court is needed to get it in more timely manner.

Now asking for info on FBI forensic examiner who told state what car to look for. Taylor said she doesn't have report yet. This information was heavily relied upon by the state to arrest Kohberger, Taylor said.

"These are critical, relevant materials, all of them," Taylor said. Necessary to defend Kohberger. Heightened standard now that death penalty on the table.

PA said office has worked diligently to provide all of the info to defense. We are down to just a few points of disagreement. Training records are not material to the case, according to prosecution.

Several hundred investigators have been involved in this case. Prosecutor doesn't want to open the door for future requests for training records

Taylor said she's aware more than 120 officers involved in case. She's not asking for all of them, just the records of three officers who played "critical roles" in investigation. One did a Spillman search, interviewed witnesses, handled and collected evidence.

Second officer interviewed a key witness, noting he was specialized in trauma cases. Third officer did a dozen or so interviews, many after arrest of Kohberger, attended autopsy, followed up on tips, made decisions, and collected bits of evidence.

How they do their job is incredibly important, Taylor said.

Ashley Jennings, deputy prosecutor, said most of what Taylor said is pure speculation. Judge noted defense had quite a list.

Judge Judge said he's going to take this under advisement and issue a written decision. Court is now adjourned.

Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson did not speak in court today. Hearing was brief, as defense plans to discuss other motions to compel at a later date.

https://twitter.com/newsfromkerri

Thank you as always, @arielilane (and @Cindizzi too !), for bringing updates from the proceedings here from reporters/journalists posting on Twitter, and the running commentary and notes galore ! It's really appreciated to be able to read it all here, especially for luddites like me who are not on SM and/or don't have access to TV stations that may do live reporting !

 

[U.N. Known]

I think it is a fishing expedition

Of course it is. That is what all of this is. LE fished for clues to arrest someone and the defense fishes for clues to counteract LE's clues.

 

[Nila Aella]

I looked up expunged records mainly because I thought that meant they were destroyed and no longer available to anyone.

From the article mentioning BKs expunged record:

Bryan Kohberger's earlier run-in with the law, as described in these records, is only now coming to light, as he prepares to defend himself against charges he killed four University of Idaho students last fall.

According to the records, Bryan Kohberger was 19 years old when he was arrested for the alleged theft in 2014. He served no jail time, according to officials.There is now no public record of that arrest or the outcome of the case.

Monroe County, Pennsylvania, offers first-time offenders the opportunity to enter into a pretrial program called "Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition," which allows for charges to be dropped and the record to be "expunged" once the accused successfully completes probation.
BBM

Idaho college killings suspect was first arrested in 2014, records show

Idaho college killings suspect Bryan Kohberger was first arrested in 2014, records show.

abcnews.go.com

Title 18
(c) Maintenance of certain information required or authorized.--Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the prosecuting attorney and the central repository shall, and the court may, maintain a list of the names and other criminal history record information of persons whose records are required by law or court rule to be expunged where the individual has successfully completed the conditions of any pretrial or post-trial diversion or probation program or where the court has ordered expungement under this section. Such information shall be used solely for the purposes of determining subsequent eligibility for such programs, identifying persons in criminal investigations or determining the grading of subsequent offenses. Such information shall be made available to any court or law enforcement agency upon request.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjw3_eEiuX_AhWJLFkFHal1Bd0QFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.legis.state.pa.us%2Fcfdocs%2Flegis%2FLI%2FconsCheck.cfm%3FtxtType%3DHTM%26ttl%3D18%26div%3D0%26chpt%3D91%26sctn%3D22%26subsctn%3D0&usg=AOvVaw3XQAD52j6w7KBsfz_ocLYY&opi=89978449

Can Anyone Access My Records After Expungement?​

If your record is sealed or expunged in Pennsylvania, it will no longer be visible to the general public, including potential employers. Expungement removes your criminal and arrest record from public records as well as the Pennsylvania State Police Criminal Repository. However, your record will remain in the FBI database, and it may remain in some private databases. Similarly, sealing your record will prohibit law enforcement agencies from disclosing your criminal records in most employment situations.

However, law enforcement agencies and other employers that must consider criminal histories under federal law, and those who use FBI background checks can still see your sealed criminal records, and you must disclose them. For example, if you work in the financial industry, for the military, or need to obtain a security clearance, you must disclose your criminal history even if a court-ordered your records expunged or sealed. However, routine employer, landlord, and other background checks will not contain these criminal records, and you will not be legally required to disclose them

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjw3_eEiuX_AhWJLFkFHal1Bd0QFnoECA8QAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.josephlento.com%2Fexpungements-in-pennsylvania-frequently-asked-questions%23%3A~%3Atext%3DIf%2520your%2520record%2520is%2520sealed%2CPennsylvania%2520State%2520Police%2520Criminal%2520Repository.&usg=AOvVaw0RXlMljKMjYNx16JLJP6YY&opi=89978449

 

[Rumination1]

Yes , surely. I believe that fingerprints are the closest analogy to the DNA. Unique to the person; might mean a lot if found at the crime scene. Can be lifted, processed, compared. Can be full or partial. At the same time, an object bearing a fingerprint might indicate that the person had been in the house; in the absence of any other evidence tying up the suspect to the house/victims, there is a chance that the object bearing the fingerprint had been intentionally placed where it was found.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If the suspect is guilty, the arrest means justice and protection of the society. If he is not and has been framed, the situation is horrible. How does one tease the truth out given the sheer amount of residents, the fact that it was a party house, and the complexity of the students' lives?

Absolutely agree. Let’s hope the killer has been found ( him) otherwise the killer is still out there

I find all this wrangling in court exactly as someone said . Trying to poke holes and remove evidence which may have been obtained through in correct methods but non the less exists as evidence. Only in its absence can she dream to get him off.

 

[U.N. Known]

It’s fascinating to me how much the Defense is pushing getting training materials related to 3 officers who made “critical decisions” in the case.

The State fighting giving that over makes me wonder why. If it’s really “not related” then why fight it? It seems to be that the defense may have uncovered/found something within other discovery, as it is very specific to three officers who they’ve cited as being at very critical decision-making points in the process of all this. Does the State have a concern that any of those officers may have not acted in some way following their training & standard operating procedures?

IMOO I don’t think the Defense is going on a fishing expedition- especially if they’re going to challenge the indictment. It sounds like there is a potential concern that either training wasn’t followed and they want to verify that. If the State doesn’t have any concern of any that, or anything else, why would they fight it so much?

Very interested to see how Judge ultimately rules.

I find the entire process antithetical to the principle of ensuring the rights of the defendant. IM (not at all legal) opinion, anything that the state has access to, any resource they viewed or any person who contributed anything to LE requesting a warrant should be available to the defense.

Obviously, the training records are a different animal, that is on the edge of the law. However, I hope the defense has everything at its disposal. If BK is convicted, I want it to be because he is the killer. If it's for other reasons, not only is an innocent person in prison, even worse, there is still a killer roaming free.

MOO, but showing him in a suit with gel styled curls and manicured brows is just as manipulative. There are plenty of studies about "suspect attractiveness" creating juror bias. And while I find bk creepy, he oddly has leagues of fans on some of the social media groups I've unfortunately waded into.

That's why I said they could have used footage of both. IMO, the defendant's usual, "day clothes" would be the most appropriate.

 

[I'm Nobody]

This video is a small example of the reason why even mainstream coverage leads to juror bias.
Though BK was wearing a suit in the last court hearings, all of the 2023 media coverage of him dressed in orange jailhouse couture. They could have shown him in the suit or used clips from the last two hearings (prior to 6/27), but I highly suspect that there was an executive decision not to.

I wish MSM was neutral; there are too many people who never go beyond those short news clips. Even those who do are often easily persuaded (manipulated) to whichever way the media wind is blowing.

Interesting perception. I guess I have more faith in juries. Voir dire looks for reasonable people and the majority who serve take their duty seriously. It is a heavy burden for sure.

IMO BK looked better in his orange scrubs than he did today. So perhaps MSM was being kind. Today he was pale as a ghost. The orange scrubs may have put some color in his face. Or is he NOT taking advantage of his weekly "yard" hours?

BK also did NOT look as confident today as in past MSM. Pep in his step was gone.
Is this BK's go-with-the-flow look? Just let things happen. Unkempt overworked student look?
He also screwed up a perfectly good hair day with too much gel today. Maybe it wasn't gel but sweat and humidity from wearing a heavy, hot, garbage-bag plastic bulletproof vest under his wrinkled shirt.
His jaw seemed more full like he's eating well.

Perhaps it's perception. Agree to disagree doesn't not mean one is right and other is wrong. We just see things differently.
JMO

 

[Sleuth2010]

Guilty killer sits behind bars, where he belongs. His car. His DNA match. His destruction of other's lives.

Police chief says no other arrests expected in Idaho killings: ‘We believe we have our guy’

Editor’s note: This story has been updated to correct the university Bryan Kohberger attends. Moscow, Idaho, Police Chief James Fry on Monday said he is not expecting any more arrests in connection…

thehill.com

Justice is being served. Well deserved. Evil does not walk free. Condolences to families, friends, co-workers,strangers. Those so deeply harmed and effected.

Keep the faith. Justice is strong. IMO. MOO. JMO. LMNOP.

 

[Nova]

So AT doesn't believe the Prosecution is withholding anything, but she wants the Judge to make them hand things over. That makes me think of a politician who says "let me be clear" and then precedes to be everything BUT clear.

EBM: typo

No, what AT said is (a) she is NOT accusing the prosecution of MISCONDUCT, but (b) her team and the ADAs DISAGREE as to what must be produced as part of discovery. And so they need Judge Judge to "break the tie" for them with a ruling on such matters.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I found it refreshingly cordial, and I suspect such politeness is typical in small states (population-wise) where the DA and the PD know they will meet again in case after case and they want to preserve a cooperative relationship with the opposition to the extent such is possible.

 

[Nova]

So, more stalling tactics from AT. No surprises here. I don't like it at all that BK has access to gel for his hair or that he can suddenly wear a suit for that matter. JMO.

BK is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

What would you have an innocent man wear?

 

[Charlot123]

This video is a small example of the reason why even mainstream coverage leads to juror bias.
Though BK was wearing a suit in the last court hearings, all of the 2023 media coverage of him dressed in orange jailhouse couture. They could have shown him in the suit or used clips from the last two hearings (prior to 6/27), but I highly suspect that there was an executive decision not to.

I wish MSM was neutral; there are too many people who never go beyond those short news clips. Even those who do are often easily persuaded (manipulated) to whichever way the media wind is blowing.

It is concerning as the example of unprofessional journalism. I, for one, want to see if BK looks physically healthy. He is still accused, not convicted. So I want to see the videos from the last hearings.

MSM has made such a mess of the news about this case that I am not following them. It is not that they are prejudiced or partial; there are few confirmed facts and a lot of gossip.

Personally, I don't think BK is anything to write home about, except for one thing. In some photo angles, he resembles Anthony Perkins, who was probably considered a good-looking man. JMO. (Not Anthony Perkins' hero. The actor himself).

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1673902802819751936