4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

[Nova]

Just look at the NYPost anytime a minority or someone who's economically challenged commits a crime vs when it's not. Go all the way back to the infamous Times OJ Simpson cover (he did do it though).

The media loves this . It's how they get clicks and gain interest. Everything is treated like the plot to a movie.

Evil sells.

I don't disagree with you, except that the Simpson cover to which you refer was on Time magazine, not The Times (which usually means the NY Times). I realize that was probably just a typo.

But in a partial defense of the media, I want to add that a picture with BK in an orange jumpsuit makes him immediately recognizable as the defendant, where BK in a suit and tie might allow him to be confused with one of the attorneys. So there is clarity in orange, perhaps in addition to pandering to reader bias.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I've been a bit perplexed since I saw one of the first few defense motions requesting training/experience/qualifications/resumes of all manner of employees/personnel of the MPD (the lead LEO at MPD), State lab (the lab workers), etc. who were involved in the investigation, IIRC.

I know the prosecution responded early on that those ^^^^ requests were denied because there wasn't a basis in law for the request? and/or the defense failed to demonstrate how it was relevant to discovery? (paraphrasing from memory here, will have to go back and look for exact wording).

Now they're asking again for training, etc. of key officers in the investigation and their decision-making qualifications ("quals"). I understand why the defense wants this information, but I don't understand how unusual their requests are in comparison to other cases.

Is this common in murder cases in Moscow or Idaho, I wonder? For example, in the recent Daybell/Vallow murder case were the training and quals of LEO requested and reviewed?

Could it be related to or have been triggered by the one LEO working on the case that was being evaluated by internal affairs?

"Latah County prosecutors notified a judge this week that they are disclosing “potential Brady/Giglio material” related to an officer involved in the investigation of Bryan Kohberger, the 28-year-old criminology Ph.D. student accused of murdering four University of Idaho students last November.

Brady material refers to information that could potentially be exculpatory for a defendant, meaning it could prove his or her innocence. Giglio material pertains to information that could impeach the credibility of a witness – in this case, an officer who worked on Kohberger’s case.

The relevant material is “in the form of a confidential internal affairs investigation” related to the officer."

Idaho prosecutors disclosing info about ‘internal affairs investigation’ related to officer on Kohberger case
JMO

 

[Nova]

MOO AT is looking to impeach DM statement by claiming her interviewer didnt follow protocol.

Probably, but countless child abuse and false-confession cases have proven that an interrogator can influence testimony with improper questioning. Obviously, this is a greater problem when a child is questioned, but there are plenty of cases of adults--of normal intelligence--being influenced by the way questions are put to them or the length of questioning without a break, etc.

So, I agree: AT is looking to impeach witness statements by critiquing interrogation techniques. But it isn't mere defense trickery (you didn't say it was); it can be a way of correcting improperly skewed testimony.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I haven't caught up on the thread since the new motions were released and the hearing, but I am gonna comment that I wonder if Bryan wrote parts of these motions. They seem.....forceful? Maybe that's not the right word. Like a hint of sarcasm throughout.

Also I really really hope LE didn't use unlawful means to find the genetic genealogy match to Bryan like the defense seems to be questioning. I doubt they did, but you never know. Seems like they must have to have a lot more than just the DNA on the knife sheath though, to be going for the death penalty.

 

[kittythehare]

This video is a small example of the reason why even mainstream coverage leads to juror bias.
Though BK was wearing a suit in the last court hearings, all of the 2023 media coverage of him dressed in orange jailhouse couture. They could have shown him in the suit or used clips from the last two hearings (prior to 6/27), but I highly suspect that there was an executive decision not to.

I wish MSM was neutral; there are too many people who never go beyond those short news clips. Even those who do are often easily persuaded (manipulated) to whichever way the media wind is blowing.

seriously, even if they had shown him in a bikini, he's not the priority here, the victims are.

 

[BrownRice]

DNA is DNA. Touch DNA simply means that it didn't come from a cheek swab or taking blood or any similar method.

There is no difference in the reliability of the DNA or its analysis. There is only one way for a sequence of DNA to be made and that's by the living organism, of which it was once a part.

Further, use point DNA is not classified as "touch DNA" (whatever that is). We breathe out DNA. Our clothing is imbued with our DNA. But this was not "airborne" DNA nor was it on a random piece of bedding.

Every reasonable person knows why sheaths exist. I believe this extends to the function (use) of a snap mechanism. When DNA is found on the part of a tool/object that must be touched in order for the tool to be used (the sheath must be unsnapped to remove the knife), it is there for a reason. The person leaving it used their fingers to unclasp and clasp the snap. If enough analysis were permitted we could likely say approximately how many times the person had snapped and unsnapped that sheath.

I don't know what you might mean by "touch DNA" is not complete. Why would it not be complete? Complete sequences are gained from "touch DNA" (use point DNA in this case) all the time.

Use point DNA is OFTEN complete. That's why LE and forensic investigators are taught to look for it first. Steering wheels. Sunglasses. Car handles. Tools. Silverware. ETC. DNA is fairly indestructible. Touching a sheath snap just ONE time likely left a complete profile; opening and closing the snap several times would leave thousands of epithelial cells in the little grooves within the snap mechanism and especially along the sides where the snap was forced into the leather and left a larger, deeper groove.

IMO.

This is a great post. You’ve taken something so technical and broken it down for the average person to understand. I appreciate your posts. When I see your name, I always stop and read. Thank you!

 

[BrownRice]

It’s actually (sadly) quite common especially when someone is newly out of treatment and still battling a drug addiction to steal from family members before branching outwards to strangers. His dad did good by holding him accountable and contacting LE.

Yes, I agree. And while most families aren’t perfect, the little I have seen makes me think he was raised in a good family. His immediate family members are hardworking members of society, (I’m assuming) parents guided him towards rehab/recovery, parents held him accountable with sisters phone theft (seems like they called LE to send a strong message- as they could have kept this within the household), dad flies out to WA to accompany BK back to PA.

How proud parents must have been. For BK to go from rehab to doctoral program in less than a decade. But now this.

 

[ilovewings]

This is a great post. You’ve taken something so technical and broken it down for the average person to understand. I appreciate your posts. When I see your name, I always stop and read. Thank you!

Ditto-- couldn't agree more

 

[Nila Aella]

MOO, but showing him in a suit with gel styled curls and manicured brows is just as manipulative. There are plenty of studies about "suspect attractiveness" creating juror bias. And while I find bk creepy, he oddly has leagues of fans on some of the social media groups I've unfortunately waded into.

IMO publishing photographs that depict what is actually occuring in court and that support the story a reporter is writing about is reporting reality. Mix, match, and twist is not providing readers/viewers with accurate information or an accurate depiction of events.
MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

It is concerning as the example of unprofessional journalism. I, for one, want to see if BK looks physically healthy. He is still accused, not convicted. So I want to see the videos from the last hearings.

MSM has made such a mess of the news about this case that I am not following them. It is not that they are prejudiced or partial; there are few confirmed facts and a lot of gossip.

Personally, I don't think BK is anything to write home about, except for one thing. In some photo angles, he resembles Anthony Perkins, who was probably considered a good-looking man. JMO. (Not Anthony Perkins' hero. The actor himself).

BBM - same here. Not following any longer for accurate depictions of events or facts. IMO twitter (individual investigative reporting) is where you can find factual real time reporting.

 

[I'm Nobody]

I've been a bit perplexed since I saw one of the first few defense motions requesting training/experience/qualifications/resumes of all manner of employees/personnel of the MPD (the lead LEO at MPD), State lab (the lab workers), etc. who were involved in the investigation, IIRC.

Now they're asking again for training, etc. of key officers in the investigation and their decision-making qualifications ("quals"). I understand why the defense wants this information, but I don't understand how unusual their requests are in comparison to other cases.

snipped for focus

This request for training records got me thinking about mandatory training in government agencies.
Long ago 1970s a mandatory training workshop I had to take was called "What To Do If Approached By A Communist." Don't be jealous, it was basically 20-year-old films with men in trench coats wearing wide brimmed hats pulled down over their eyes, carrying folded newspapers with recorders in them. My training class, many hippies, laughed so hard we fell off our chairs. I don't remember what I'm supposed to do if approached which was nil to not ever going to happen anyway but remember how they will look.

My point is some government training films/workshops can be terribly outdated. Surely they have gotten better. Manuals get updated; out-with-the-old isn't always easy for seasoned personnel who are used to doing things the other way.

AT is using something from her playbook that worked before. It's starting to sound like the investigation has to be perfect with little room for human err. Makes me a bit nervous, humans being human. Not sure a perfect investigation exists but I'm hopeful Thompson and the others have it down to a science.

JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Absolutely agree. Let’s hope the killer has been found ( him) otherwise the killer is still out there

I find all this wrangling in court exactly as someone said . Trying to poke holes and remove evidence which may have been obtained through in correct methods but non the less exists as evidence. Only in its absence can she dream to get him off.

I see this differently. I see it as AT working to discover whether the evidence against her client is sound. MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

No, what AT said is (a) she is NOT accusing the prosecution of MISCONDUCT, but (b) her team and the ADAs DISAGREE as to what must be produced as part of discovery. And so they need Judge Judge to "break the tie" for them with a ruling on such matters.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I found it refreshingly cordial, and I suspect such politeness is typical in small states (population-wise) where the DA and the PD know they will meet again in case after case and they want to preserve a cooperative relationship with the opposition to the extent such is possible.

Second! I also heard her say something along the lines that WWT Jr was waiting on some items from another agency and she would like an order with a date so that he can obtain these items and hand them over to the D.
MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

This request for training records got me thinking about mandatory training in government agencies.
Long ago 1970s a mandatory training workshop I had to take was called "What To Do If Approached By A Communist." Don't be jealous, it was basically 20-year-old films with men in trench coats wearing wide brimmed hats pulled down over their eyes, carrying folded newspapers with recorders in them. My training class, many hippies, laughed so hard we fell off our chairs. I don't remember what I'm supposed to do if approached which was nil to not ever going to happen anyway but remember how they will look.

My point is some government training films/workshops can be terribly outdated. Surely they have gotten better. Manuals get updated; out-with-the-old isn't always easy for seasoned personnel who are used to doing things the other way.

AT is using something from her playbook that worked before. It's starting to sound like the investigation has to be perfect with little room for human err. Makes me a bit nervous, humans being human. Not sure a perfect investigation exists but I'm hopeful Thompson and the others have it down to a science.

JMO

Good point, @I'm Nobody. LOL, I am kinda jealous you got that training and know what to look for even if it didn't stick with you how to protect yourself from interloping commies !

IMO, it's a box checking exercise to make sure training practices, certifications, minimum quals are met and documentation is up to snuff.

Like version 2.0 was documented as read and signed off on by the person's supervisor as opposed version 1.0.

I'm sure they all have a files, and it's all in good order.

I share a bit of your nervousness though, humans being humans, and no one being perfect.

I think there may be something more underlying these requests, which also makes me a bit nervous that if they find something that looks iffy it could grow legs and/or throw some shade at the very least on some personnel aspects of the investigation.

Even if the worst happens (e.g., LEO #17 was inadequately trained in witness interview techniques), I think it's survivable (e.g., it can be explained there was a verbal group debrief/training on interview techniques before they were sent out in the field).

I just don't like what feels like to me as the personalization of professionals, and suspect it's aimed at certain individuals that BK wants to make look bad that he had some inside skinny on ahead of time that they weren't perfect.

Moscow is a city with tens of thousands of people and their police department is well funded and respected by the community, so presumably they are well trained as well.

So the defense 'putting them under the microscope', so to speak, regarding their overall professionalism (which, IMO, includes how well trained they are) insinuates something that's hard for me to suss out.

But I hope it's not that they see them as potentially a modern day version of Mayberry R.F.D., cuz they ain't near 'nough now !

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Interesting perception. I guess I have more faith in juries. Voir dire looks for reasonable people and the majority who serve take their duty seriously. It is a heavy burden for sure.

IMO BK looked better in his orange scrubs than he did today. So perhaps MSM was being kind. Today he was pale as a ghost. The orange scrubs may have put some color in his face. Or is he NOT taking advantage of his weekly "yard" hours?

BK also did NOT look as confident today as in past MSM. Pep in his step was gone.
Is this BK's go-with-the-flow look? Just let things happen. Unkempt overworked student look?
He also screwed up a perfectly good hair day with too much gel today. Maybe it wasn't gel but sweat and humidity from wearing a heavy, hot, garbage-bag plastic bulletproof vest under his wrinkled shirt.
His jaw seemed more full like he's eating well.

Perhaps it's perception. Agree to disagree doesn't not mean one is right and other is wrong. We just see things differently.
JMO

Maybe he's not allowed out? I read recently the original definition of the word 'nonce' (the most hated prisoners) is an acronym from 'not on normal courtyard exercise'. I think that means locked up 24/7

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I think there may be valid reasons to ask for LEOs' training records but it should be dependent upon the circumstances. It seems logical to ask for them if there is reason to suspect that an interview had been manipulated. But it seems logical to me that the specific suspected manipulation should be stated. Otherwise, taken to the extreme, we could end up having to send LE personnel to handwriting school because their search and seizure lists are questionable. (10 cards or ID cards?)

So lets state the problem first, then ask for the training background if necessary. I don't endorse asking for personnel records because the results of the interview might be unfavorable for the accused. That, in my opinion, is opening a door that very well might be difficult to ever get closed again.
MOO

 

[Chloegirl]

Sorry, playing catch-up. RE: Stolen phone story

WOW. BK threatened his loving father? His father told the police BK warned him which says to me Michael K. was disturbed by what BK said to him. Wondering if MK was a little afraid of BK?

"According to the records, Michael Kohberger told law enforcement Bryan had warned him
'not to do anything stupid"'
after learning his son had taken the phone, adding that his son had struggled with drug addiction."

My parents never once hit me in my entire life, but if I had warned either of them not to do anything stupid after I did something stupid, to this day I believe they would have smacked me for saying that. And I would have deserved it.
NO, different generations don't get a pass.

MOO.

Complete speculation on my end, I think they knew he had problems as a child and he was likely medicated, overindulged in every way, which may have contributed to his weight. When he got to that critical point of adolescence, I wonder if he didn't refuse all the things they did to somewhat subdue his aggressive behavior particularly medication?. And when he was able to bring himself forward, along with drug seeking behavior, theft, etc. they became afraid of him. I have no evidence for this I just think that placating him may have led to not recognizing the scale of his problems. Having him arrested may have been intent to get him under control but there's a struggle here we don't know about. If he pleads it would be to conceal that long history and possibly he doesn't want to be considered "mentally ill". JMOO.

 

[schooling]

I don't disagree with you, except that the Simpson cover to which you refer was on Time magazine, not The Times (which usually means the NY Times). I realize that was probably just a typo.

But in a partial defense of the media, I want to add that a picture with BK in an orange jumpsuit makes him immediately recognizable as the defendant, where BK in a suit and tie might allow him to be confused with one of the attorneys. So there is clarity in orange, perhaps in addition to pandering to reader bias.

Yes, I meant Time. Not the “gray lady” Times.

And I agree. The media wants the picture to tell a story, even if it’s a small one like ‘this is the suspect’.

 

[maskedwoman]

It’s fascinating to me how much the Defense is pushing getting training materials related to 3 officers who made “critical decisions” in the case.

The State fighting giving that over makes me wonder why. If it’s really “not related” then why fight it? It seems to be that the defense may have uncovered/found something within other discovery, as it is very specific to three officers who they’ve cited as being at very critical decision-making points in the process of all this. Does the State have a concern that any of those officers may have not acted in some way following their training & standard operating procedures?

IMOO I don’t think the Defense is going on a fishing expedition- especially if they’re going to challenge the indictment. It sounds like there is a potential concern that either training wasn’t followed and they want to verify that. If the State doesn’t have any concern of any that, or anything else, why would they fight it so much?

Very interested to see how Judge ultimately rules.

On the other side of the discussion, and IANAL but this is a topic where precedent concerns me. Officers are trained on policy and procedure but not all training is policy and procedure. Some areas, like traffic accident investigation or forensics involves math and science. There really is a right and wrong way to do it. In other areas, live investigation or interrogation, officers minds work differently, things occur to them at different times, in different ways. So they develop a technique that works for them. One officer thinks of an approach another might not.

In the AT case that was overturned on appeal, the dispute was over traffic accident reconstruction. There was prosecutorial misconduct, and the officer actually lied under oath, and testified differently about the same issue in two different trials. His testimony was also inconsistent with materials he taught that particular topic from, which made those materials relevant. I am glad AT prevailed because misconduct like that needs to be caught and addressed but I would be uncomfortable if that situation created precedent so that defendants can always access those records without establishing any foundation for them being relevant.

MOOooo

 

[SMK777]

Is anyone here not 100 percent “guilty” on Bryan Kohburger? Or everyone thinks it was him for sure? JMO. Edited to add: genuinely asking not trying to berate anyone for their opinions

I am not 100% sure he’s guilty.
But on the other hand, I won’t be surprised if he is.