4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[Cool Cats]

I'm leaning that way too especially given the potential health hazards. My only conflict has been regarding the layout of the house, but if they've been able to create a good 3D rendition, it seems like that might be a better way to go.

Your article was interesting also because we got to hear from Ethan's parents:

The parents of Ethan Chapin, another one of the victims, said the situation was difficult, with no easy answers. On one hand, they agree with Mr. Goncalves that demolishing the home this summer “feels very early,” said Mr. Chapin’s mother, Stacy. But she noted that their two other children — they were triplets — are still students at the University of Idaho, and one of them has a room that looks out toward the house, providing a constant reminder.

“Our kids have to walk past that house every day,” Ms. Chapin said. “The kids, they need to heal. The university needs to heal. And the community.”

 

[maconrich]

Your article was interesting also because we got to hear from Ethan's parents:

The parents of Ethan Chapin, another one of the victims, said the situation was difficult, with no easy answers. On one hand, they agree with Mr. Goncalves that demolishing the home this summer “feels very early,” said Mr. Chapin’s mother, Stacy. But she noted that their two other children — they were triplets — are still students at the University of Idaho, and one of them has a room that looks out toward the house, providing a constant reminder.

“Our kids have to walk past that house every day,” Ms. Chapin said. “The kids, they need to heal. The university needs to heal. And the community.”

Yeah, that got to me big time. Let me add, the link to the article didn't come from me - I just used a quote so included it in my post.

 

[10ofRods]

It would be impossible to visualize the interior without being inside. I saw an online video before I figured it out. I don't believe that video was online prior to the murders. I think BK had to be in that house at some point to learn the bedroom locations and who they belonged to.

JMO

As someone with a moderate visual impairment, I have always used visualization extensively to try and picture in advance what my new school buildings would look like (using a map), what's inside various buildings I'm going to visit, and how to get around inside of them.

I do believe the house was known for its top two floors and that party goers and others entered through that second floor deck (just as Kohberger did). So, he really only had to suss out two floors. If he came around occasionally (and we know he was nearby 11-12 times, at least) he probably went up on the road behind the house and could see directly through KG's window, at the very least. He would have known about the living room/kitchen layout merely by walking by.

If his goal was to get to the third floor, that house is not very big per floor and I don't see how he could miss that upward staircase (and then, each person can decide for themselves whether Xana and Ethan were collateral damage - happening to be up and going into her room at the time BK came down...or he really meant to kill everyone in the house). He might not have known how many actual residents there were, as that would be hard to suss out even at a party.

IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thank you again and again and again @Nila Aella

The release of "sealed" Exhibit A, assuming it's the grand jury names and answers to voir dire questions, is shocking to me. I'd be okay with "juror 1 answered...." but to give out the actual juror's name before any question arises about their answer is frightening to me given leaks and crazy SM people. I understand witness names; juror names, not so much.. Seems the defense should have to question an answer before getting the name of a juror--falls under Thompson's cart-before-the-horse statement. This is so BK can fight the indictment; only to be re-indicted by a new grand jury; just buying time. But a WIN for the defense for now. What a load of hooey. I'd love to be wrong on this, so please correct me. JMO

I read that as the Defense is entitled to a video recording and transcript of the proceedings which is standard, but they are also being allowed the juror questionnaire information. Not such a big deal, but not standard. The identities of the grand jurors will be redacted as stated here:

In order to protect the identities of the impaneled grand jurors, the disclosed record and transcript are to be redacted prior to being shared so as to remove any reference to gand jurors’ individual names.

MOO

 

[al66pine]

"Amazing Geospatial Powers" "Impossible to Visualize"
From post by @MyBelle:
"Where would BK get blueprints for that house and how would he know which bedrooms belonged to whom? I seriously doubt he has amazing geospatial powers."

It would be impossible to visualize the interior without being inside. .... I think BK had to be in that house at some point to learn the bedroom locations and who they belonged to. JMO

snipped for focus Agreeing w @MyBelle - doubting that BK has amazing geospatial powers.

INTERIOR LAYOUT.
Many times I'm gobsmacked by info avail. online but not on this. Floorplans plus interior pix of homes & apt's are commonly available online, even when the prop. is not listed for sale or rent. In fall 2022, scads of interior 1122 King pix were online.* Just saying, the interior layout was not "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma (hat-tip to Winston Churchill ).
I recall some of our astute sleuthers here analyzing room pix at the apt, perhaps pix BKalso saw on victims' SM pages.
It's also possible, at some point BK was in the apt.

IDENTIFYING BEDROOMS.
If one of the residents caught BK's attention as a potential target, at a location other than 1122 King Road, he may have followed her by car or on foot, then watched to determine which bedroom was hers.
And living only minutes away from the apt., BK may have surveilled one or more residents when LE's investigation indicates his cell and/car was there/closeby and possibly on other occasions as well.

jmo.
_________________________________

* Ex: currently still shows 24 pix at 1122 King Road Apartments in Moscow, ID 83843 - Zumper
Also info & pix at zillow.com, realtor.com, & other R/E sites until some time after the deaths when much info, but not all, for the address was deleted.

In some areas, bldg permit info, including blueprints, may be available for public to view, print, download online thru city or county bldg permit offices.

https://permits.ci.moscow.id.us/Citizen/Web_Public/CitizenConn_Main.aspx?R=joYCJyd%2bIRdETosHgQ7HZmn3vzRmC3AVtUOGETWhEc1o4WyK4rX0PXFWLTIl0vstiLvoOMMMYrmhtJ3wnoPyVw%3d%3d

(I tried a single search for apt address; response = no items matching, Lost interest; may or may not be available; IDK.
https://permits.ci.moscow.id.us/Cit...o4WyK4rX0PXFWLTIl0vstiLvoOMMMYrmhtJ3wnoPyVw== )

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Just had the weirdest thought. Could he, indulging in his own interests, have purchased some sort of weird DNA kit online to do self testing? That's not possible, is it? I'm not sure if I want to Google that.

Self testing for what? What you get when you pay for a DNA ancestry / heritage test is how your profile compares to millions of other people who have also been tested and what that means in relation to your own 'bloodlines' - as a stand alone test it doesn't test for anything. Some of the DNA test companies do medical tests but these are always designed to look for certain markers or such and they are processed through complex system by expensive labs.

 

[Balthazar]

I honestly don't know, but based on the timeline in the PCA, it seems likely that it was probably Xana (as Kaylee was already deceased). If the timeline is a bit off, it could very well have been Kaylee (assuming she was awake).

Edited to add: if it was Xana, it's possible that she wasn't in her room when she said it? At the very least, I'd think her door would have been open and she would have said it loud enough for DM to hear her. IMO, MOO

IMO, Kaylee and Xana had distinctly different voices. DM would know her roommates voices. DM said it was Kaylee and I believe her. From the position of DM in her room in the house, she would know where the voice came from (for example, second or third floor and approximately where on that floor) and that the speaker sounded like Kaylee. Apparently after DM mentioned that Kaylee said "Someone's here," the interviewer then asked DM if it could have been Xana due to the timeline LE was developing. When you question a witness you want them to tell you 100% of what they believe happened and not say or do anything to influence their account of the events, even if the interviewer believes the witnesses account is incorrect in some way. You want to get 100% their own account without your input. It is so important for the interviewer to remain as neutral as possible and exert extreme care in not putting their opinion or idea into the head of the witness. Most especially, the interviewer should not do anything to direct witness testimony to fit a pre-existing theory of the crime including the timeline. IMO, the appropriate followup question would have been: "What floor in the house did the voice seem to come from?" and then, when DM said what floor, ask what part of that floor of the house. The interviewer should have then asked DM to imitate how "Someone's here" was said and asked DM if the speaker sounded distressed. We don't know at this time if the interviewer went to this level of questioning. However, what we do know is that the interviewer presented an alternative answer (that Xana may have been the speaker.) When an alternative answer is suggested to a witness by someone in authority (in this case the interviewer), the witness will often think the alternative suggested must be correct, even when it is not or the witness may feel that they have to agree with the interviewer as they view the interviewer as an authority figure. I am concerned that may have been what happened in this situation, which, of course, is going to be of interest to the Defense. So, IMO, here we have the Genesis of the defense request for the training records of the LE officer who questioned witnesses.

If it were Xana who said "Someone's here," then I think that the comment doesn't make sense unless the "someone" she was talking about was the murderer. After all, Xana placed a Doordash order and would be expecting someone to bring it, so no need to announce her expected Doordash driver was there to the household. If it was Kaylee, she might have noticed the Doordash driver arrive from any of the three 3rd floor forward facing windows. Alternatively, Kaylee might have seen the murderer enter MM's bedroom from within the bedroom or even from the hallway and said it.

All JMO.

 

[Balthazar]

What I have never understood is how (if true) DM could hear Xana say "Someone's here" from her location. I think it more likely it was Kaylee she heard. MOO Any thoughts?

DM's room was less than 15 feet from Xana's room. But I believe DM heard Kaylee and the interviewer inadvertently inserted his opinion that it might be Xana into the interview.

 

[Balthazar]

IIRC, the source(s) -- not confirmed and since been scrubbed from the internet AFAIK around early January maybe, so MOO -- about the additional details on noises, thumps, words purportedly heard, etc. during the timeframe of their murders -- said DM thought it was Kaylee who she thought said that, but it might have been Xana. So no telling, IMO.

...snipped for focus

It is in the PCA which is available online. Page 4.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It is in the PCA which is available online. Page 4.

Thanks, @Balthazar, you're right, it's in the PCA. I was recalling a more detailed accounting about some other aspects besides what DM recalled hearing, about a thump and the dog whining caught on a neighbors' ring camera maybe that was maybe sound-activated. JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

Self testing for what? What you get when you pay for a DNA ancestry / heritage test is how your profile compares to millions of other people who have also been tested and what that means in relation to your own 'bloodlines' - as a stand alone test it doesn't test for anything. Some of the DNA test companies do medical tests but these are always designed to look for certain markers or such and they are processed through complex system by expensive labs.

Maybe more generic blood testing, luminol or whatever? I think I said DNA when I meant blood. I don't know it's more of a what if, can you buy things like this as a lay person? To help detect where to clean? Like I said, sort of a weird Friday night thought. Long hot week. JMOO

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Thanks, @Balthazar, you're right, it's in the PCA. I was recalling a more detailed accounting about some other aspects besides what DM recalled hearing, about a thump and the dog whining caught on a neighbors' ring camera maybe that was maybe sound-activated. JMO

Maybe this is what you’re remembering?

Gift link: Idaho Murders: What We Know

“At 4:17 a.m., according to investigators, a security camera in the area captured distorted audio of what sounded like a whimper and a loud thud. A dog was heard barking.”

 

[I'm Nobody]

"Amazing Geospatial Powers" "Impossible to Visualize"
From post by @MyBelle:
"Where would BK get blueprints for that house and how would he know which bedrooms belonged to whom? I seriously doubt he has amazing geospatial powers."



snipped for focus Agreeing w @MyBelle - doubting that BK has amazing geospatial powers.

INTERIOR LAYOUT.
Many times I'm gobsmacked by info avail. online but not on this. Floorplans plus interior pix of homes & apt's are commonly available online, even when the prop. is not listed for sale or rent. In fall 2022, scads of interior 1122 King pix were online.* Just saying, the interior layout was not "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma (hat-tip to Winston Churchill ).
I recall some of our astute sleuthers here analyzing room pix at the apt, perhaps pix BKalso saw on victims' SM pages.
It's also possible, at some point BK was in the apt.

IDENTIFYING BEDROOMS.
If one of the residents caught BK's attention as a potential target, at a location other than 1122 King Road, he may have followed her by car or on foot, then watched to determine which bedroom was hers.
And living only minutes away from the apt., BK may have surveilled one or more residents when LE's investigation indicates his cell and/car was there/closeby and possibly on other occasions as well.

jmo.
_________________________________

* Ex: currently still shows 24 pix at 1122 King Road Apartments in Moscow, ID 83843 - Zumper
Also info & pix at zillow.com, realtor.com, & other R/E sites until some time after the deaths when much info, but not all, for the address was deleted.

In some areas, bldg permit info, including blueprints, may be available for public to view, print, download online thru city or county bldg permit offices.

https://permits.ci.moscow.id.us/Citizen/Web_Public/CitizenConn_Main.aspx?R=joYCJyd%2bIRdETosHgQ7HZmn3vzRmC3AVtUOGETWhEc1o4WyK4rX0PXFWLTIl0vstiLvoOMMMYrmhtJ3wnoPyVw%3d%3d

(I tried a single search for apt address; response = no items matching, Lost interest; may or may not be available; IDK.
https://permits.ci.moscow.id.us/Citizen/Web_Public/CitizenConn_Search.aspx?R=joYCJyd+IRdETosHgQ7HZmn3vzRmC3AVtUOGETWhEc1o4WyK4rX0PXFWLTIl0vstiLvoOMMMYrmhtJ3wnoPyVw== )

Thanks @al66pine. The house floor plan must've been available online to anyone interested. Interesting is that the Pappa Roger poster on FB used a floor plan in one of his December posts. Pappa R mixed up a few things, the location of Ethan, time, 3rd floor bedroom which may have been on purpose or he was so confused/excited he got it wrong even after being in the house. Don't know whether Pappa R was actually BK, still chilling. Whoever PR was had the floor plan. Here's the PR post screenshot from discussions on Reddit. not sure this thread is still up. The floor plan PR used seems accurate even though he got other things wrong. JMO
Pappa Roger Reddit discussion on WS was approved way back.
Reddit screenshot

 

[Nila Aella]

Thank you again and again and again @Nila Aella

The release of "sealed" Exhibit A, assuming it's the grand jury names and answers to voir dire questions, is shocking to me. I'd be okay with "juror 1 answered...." but to give out the actual juror's name before any question arises about their answer is frightening to me given leaks and crazy SM people. I understand witness names; juror names, not so much.. Seems they should have to question an answer before getting the name of a juror--falls under Thompson's cart-before-the-horse statement. This is so BK can fight the indictment; only to be re-indicted by a new grand jury; just buying time. But a WIN for the defense for now. What a load of hooey. I'd love to be wrong on this, so please correct me. JMO

It mentions "Items" in exhibit A (which is submitted under seal to protect confidential grand jury information)
I was thinking it is related to voir dire answers. It also could be some items that were listed in ATs original motion.

This is what AT asked for - itemized in her motion:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/051923%20Motion%20To%20Make%20Available%20the%20Record%20of%20All%20Proceedings%20of%20the%20Grand%20Jury%20Pursuant%20to%20ICR%2062.pdf

I agree with you and don't believe the names would be revealed. The last paragraph of the order requires the redacting of names of jurors in the transcript and record. It doesn't mention redacting names in exhibit A though, but I still don't believe the Judge would allow that without good cause.
JMO
edit: spelling

 

[Nila Aella]

Maybe this is what you’re remembering?

Gift link: Idaho Murders: What We Know

“At 4:17 a.m., according to investigators, a security camera in the area captured distorted audio of what sounded like a whimper and a loud thud. A dog was heard barking.”

It is also in the PCA: Voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog barking numerous times starting at 4:17.

 

[katydid23]

One common thought regarding a serial killer is that something happened in their childhood to set them on the path to murder. People describe Kohberger's parents as kind and loving and he has two older siblings. Is he an exception to the childhood trauma?

Childhood trauma does not only come from parents/siblings. It often comes from other kids. Bullies, mean girls, pressure from social expectations. He was a chubby kid, with parents who worked at the school, and who declared bankruptcy, twice.

So I think he had self esteem issues and with the alleged visual issues as well, he had a lot of stress. The parents had financial stress so they had their own pressures to deal with it seems.

 

[10ofRods]

Self testing for what? What you get when you pay for a DNA ancestry / heritage test is how your profile compares to millions of other people who have also been tested and what that means in relation to your own 'bloodlines' - as a stand alone test it doesn't test for anything. Some of the DNA test companies do medical tests but these are always designed to look for certain markers or such and they are processed through complex system by expensive labs.

You can get your entire DNA results in a file from either Ancestry or 23andMe. You would then have a long set of ATCG codons that can then be sent to GedMatch or any health service (there are hundreds of such services). You can send your results to Parabon, pay a fee, and see what they think your face looks like (not sure why anyone does that, but they do).

The interpretive value of having one's markers pointed out is very informative (and will convince most people that it is, in fact, their DNA).

At any rate, they will give you your raw data. They also guide you through what you might and might not want to know.

To get the self-testing, a person has to fill out a form stating and agreeing that the sample given is their own. Collecting and submitting someone else's sample is not allowed by 23 or Ancestry - just yourself.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Thanks, @Balthazar, you're right, it's in the PCA. I was recalling a more detailed accounting about some other aspects besides what DM recalled hearing, about a thump and the dog whining caught on a neighbors' ring camera maybe that was maybe sound-activated. JMO

I stand corrected, all. I guess everything I remember was in the PCA, but some extraneous stuff I recalled seemed to be elsewhere, maybe my memory fails me. Thanks for propping me up, it takes a village!

 

[10ofRods]

Maybe more generic blood testing, luminol or whatever? I think I said DNA when I meant blood. I don't know it's more of a what if, can you buy things like this as a lay person? To help detect where to clean? Like I said, sort of a weird Friday night thought. Long hot week. JMOO

Oh, I see what you're saying. I've been meaning to check on that myself. And YES, you can buy luminol - right on Amazon! I don't think you can buy it in a regular drug store. You can buy the black light that's needed as well.

It would show where the blood is (although microscopic quantities would not be detected).

It's the weekend - I hope we all recover. I hope everyone can stay cool during this next wave of heat.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Maybe more generic blood testing, luminol or whatever? I think I said DNA when I meant blood. I don't know it's more of a what if, can you buy things like this as a lay person? To help detect where to clean? Like I said, sort of a weird Friday night thought. Long hot week. JMOO

IMO, @Chloegirl, you are onto something.

I think BK could have done all of the above, including:

• DNA testing to identify his own signature and potentially those of others and see which methods worked best at erasing DNA/leaving unidentifiable traces of DNA.
• Blood testing for same/similar reasons as DNA.
• Luminol testing to see to what degree blood might soak through things like Tyvek booties, etc. (in regards to things like the "latent" footprint outside DM's room that was only seen through use of luminol, IIRC).

Creepy crazy kind of stuff for an everyday sort of person to do, IMO, but not beyond the realm of possibility for someone like him.

IIRC (as documented in MSM, and linked in the Media Only thread):

• When he was arrested in PA in the middle of the night at his parents'/his home LE found color coded ziploc baggies he was sorting his personal trash into in the kitchen. What a bizarre thing for him to be doing if he wasn't practicing at studying and controlling "release" of his DNA into the trash. And he was observed by LE before his arrest disposing of trash in the middle of the night in their neighbor's trash cans.
• His neighbors in the apartment complex in Pullman said he was often up all night running appliances and showering and making noises that woke them up. IMO, he could have been practicing then and there as well, at controlling release of his DNA onto this that or the other surfaces.

MOO