4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[maconrich]

Simply put whether he was inside or not, there was familiarity from looking inside what was that name of that account that nobody could verify outside looking, interesting. Lots of information was available on SM and Zillow so I'm not convinced he'd been inside as much as visualized the interior. JMOO

Yes, it's possible, and if / when watching from outside would need to observe from both the front and back of the house (to know which bedrooms people were in).

For me personally the tricky parts would be where both sets of stairs were (not in the same room) and the step from the living room into the little hallway -- which couldn't be avoided. Out of the two things, I think the step could be the most challenging (as in it could cause someone to trip if they didn't know it was there). IMO.

I think that even if I lived there it would take some getting used to in order to know how to get where I was going (but that's just me, and I'm used to more traditional floor plans).

Edited to add: If killer hadn't been inside the house, I find the mega tight timeline harder to believe.

 

[MyBelle]

Simply put whether he was inside or not, there was familiarity from looking inside what was that name of that account that nobody could verify outside looking, interesting. Lots of information was available on SM and Zillow so I'm not convinced he'd been inside as much as visualized the interior. JMOO

It would be impossible to visualize the interior without being inside. I saw an online video before I figured it out. I don't believe that video was online prior to the murders. I think BK had to be in that house at some point to learn the bedroom locations and who they belonged to.

JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

MOO:

Regarding the lack of victim DNA in BK's vehicle, I'm reposting this from a few months ago, in which I speculated BK may have removed the lid or cap on the gear shift in his car because it may have possibly had victim DNA on it.

In the bodycam footage of the LE stop in Indiana on his way back to PA with his father, you can see that the gearshift is missing it's cap or lid decal, and it's an open gap or hole at the top of the round part of the gear shift that your hand goes around.

I've always wondered if he got rid of it because it may have been the one place in the car where he put his right hand with maybe some possibility of trace DNA from the victims on his glove (after touching the bags or sheets of plastic), and he was being extra careful just in case.

If he's right-handed, which I think he is, he would have used his right hand for everything, touching the knife, sheath, and doorknob/slider handle, stabbing the victims, touching the bags and plastic sheets (I think he used to stow the bloody clothes/kill kit), and ultimately his gearshift.

Here is a still photo from 1 minute 56 seconds into the stop from the video linked below:

View attachment 433375
And a closeup:

View attachment 433376

ETA: Here's what it's supposed to look like with the cap in tact:

View attachment 433380

Source: 2015 Hyundai Elantra - Carvana

Just had the weirdest thought. Could he, indulging in his own interests, have purchased some sort of weird DNA kit online to do self testing? That's not possible, is it? I'm not sure if I want to Google that.

 

[Nila Aella]

DBM

 

[Nila Aella]

• 07/06/2023 Motion to Temporarily Seal
• 07/06/2023 Temporary Order
• 07/06/2023 Amended Order
• 07/06/2023 Amended Stipulation

Repost, missed one

 

[Chloegirl]

It would be impossible to visualize the interior without being inside. I saw an online video before I figured it out. I don't believe that video was online prior to the murders. I think BK had to be in that house at some point to learn the bedroom locations and who they belonged to.

JMO

I hear ya! I will say I must have amazing geospatial powers and can read blueprints easily so maybe it's different for different people, or for if you're motivated.

 

[Chloegirl]

• 07/06/2023 Motion to Temporarily Seal
• 07/06/2023 Temporary Order
• 07/06/2023 Amended Order
• 07/06/2023 Amended Stipulation

Repost, missed one

Docu-ninja!

 

[MyBelle]

I hear ya! I will say I must have amazing geospatial powers and can read blueprints easily so maybe it's different for different people, or for if you're motivated.

Where would BK get blueprints for that house and how would he know which bedrooms belonged to whom? I seriously doubt he has amazing geospatial powers.

JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

Where would BK get blueprints for that house and how would he know which bedrooms belonged to whom? I seriously doubt he has amazing geospatial powers.

JMO

I digress. Online on several websites I just visited there are many floor plans and visuals available. And they have been prior because people rented and this is how you get folks interested. Not that that makes up for what you are saying. A lot of the SM you could see out the windows, there were personal effects in the windows so some of it is a little bit like a fishbowl. But I do acknowledge it wouldn't be insurmountable for everyone. JMOO

 

[maconrich]

This is the only site that lets me understand the layout inside the house (which, as far as I can tell, wasn't created until after the murders). These two screen caps show the little step and also that the killer literally had to walk past DM's door at least 3 times, yet oddly, IMO, didn't go into her bedroom. Did he think the room was empty, or was he not interested in targeting her (even if he saw her when she was peeping out her bedroom door and apparently saw him)? (The location of her bedroom is also significant to the Prosecution.) All IMHO, MOO

First screen cap is of standing on the landing of the stairs leading to 3rd floor showing where DM's room was.
Second is from standing in the little hallway in between the kitchen and DM's room (looking into the living room)

Screen caps from https://1122tour.com/

 

[Boxer]

This is the only site that lets me understand the layout inside the house (which, as far as I can tell, wasn't created until after the murders). These two screen caps show the little step and also that the killer literally had to walk past DM's door at least 3 times, yet oddly, IMO, didn't go into her bedroom. Did he think the room was empty, or was he not interested in targeting her (even if he saw her when she was peeping out her bedroom door and apparently saw him)? (The location of her bedroom is also significant to the Prosecution.) All IMHO, MOO

First screen cap is of standing on the landing of the stairs leading to 3rd floor showing where DM's room was.
Second is from standing in the little hallway in between the kitchen and DM's room (looking into the living room)

Screen caps from https://1122tour.com/

DM had just moved to that room. Possibly he did not know it was occupied.

 

[I'm Nobody]

• 07/06/2023 Motion to Temporarily Seal
• 07/06/2023 Temporary Order
• 07/06/2023 Amended Order
• 07/06/2023 Amended Stipulation

Repost, missed one

Thank you again and again and again @Nila Aella

The release of "sealed" Exhibit A, assuming it's the grand jury names and answers to voir dire questions, is shocking to me. I'd be okay with "juror 1 answered...." but to give out the actual juror's name before any question arises about their answer is frightening to me given leaks and crazy SM people. I understand witness names; juror names, not so much.. Seems the defense should have to question an answer before getting the name of a juror--falls under Thompson's cart-before-the-horse statement. This is so BK can fight the indictment; only to be re-indicted by a new grand jury; just buying time. But a WIN for the defense for now. What a load of hooey. I'd love to be wrong on this, so please correct me. JMO

 

[maconrich]

DM had just moved to that room. Possibly he did not know it was occupied.

Yes. And if BK had, for example, gone to a party at the house, maybe on the night his phone reportedly pinged (around) there for a significant amount of time, he could have noted that the room was empty. Which, IMO, is another reason I believe the killer had been inside the house before Nov. 13th. All speculation, MOO, IMO.

 

[Dexter12]

This is the only site that lets me understand the layout inside the house (which, as far as I can tell, wasn't created until after the murders). These two screen caps show the little step and also that the killer literally had to walk past DM's door at least 3 times, yet oddly, IMO, didn't go into her bedroom. Did he think the room was empty, or was he not interested in targeting her (even if he saw her when she was peeping out her bedroom door and apparently saw him)? (The location of her bedroom is also significant to the Prosecution.) All IMHO, MOO

First screen cap is of standing on the landing of the stairs leading to 3rd floor showing where DM's room was.
Second is from standing in the little hallway in between the kitchen and DM's room (looking into the living room)

Screen caps from https://1122tour.com/

What I have never understood is how (if true) DM could hear Xana say "Someone's here" from her location. I think it more likely it was Kaylee she heard. MOO Any thoughts?

 

[MyBelle]

This is the only site that lets me understand the layout inside the house (which, as far as I can tell, wasn't created until after the murders). These two screen caps show the little step and also that the killer literally had to walk past DM's door at least 3 times, yet oddly, IMO, didn't go into her bedroom. Did he think the room was empty, or was he not interested in targeting her (even if he saw her when she was peeping out her bedroom door and apparently saw him)? (The location of her bedroom is also significant to the Prosecution.) All IMHO, MOO

First screen cap is of standing on the landing of the stairs leading to 3rd floor showing where DM's room was.
Second is from standing in the little hallway in between the kitchen and DM's room (looking into the living room)

Screen caps from https://1122tour.com/

That's the site I found very helpful! Thanks!

 

[maconrich]

What I have never understood is how (if true) DM could hear Xana say "Someone's here" from her location. I think it more likely it was Kaylee she heard. MOO Any thoughts?

I honestly don't know, but based on the timeline in the PCA, it seems likely that it was probably Xana (as Kaylee was already deceased). If the timeline is a bit off, it could very well have been Kaylee (assuming she was awake).

Edited to add: if it was Xana, it's possible that she wasn't in her room when she said it? At the very least, I'd think her door would have been open and she would have said it loud enough for DM to hear her. IMO, MOO

 

[Gardenista]

nm, link posting is wonky

 

[Cool Cats]

While these are all good points, and while I agree that the house should ultimately be demolished, I still think it might be best to avoid demolishing it until after the initial trial.

Especially given its unusual layout, I worry that demolishing the house beforehand would foreclose on options if for some reason a walk-through was needed. The strongest argument against this is that things have changed w/in the house, but how much have they changed?

It also seems like there are a lot of weird conspiracy theories about this case online. Premature demolition of the house would only encourage those.

Finally, some of the family members think demolition should be postponed.

JMO

A jury view of the house would not be appropriate.

Article from @maconrich

Mr. Kohberger’s defense lawyer, Anne Taylor, told campus officials in April that she had “no objection” to the plan, according to an email. The county prosecutor, Bill Thompson, told the university that he also did not object, because the authorities did not think it would be needed for trial.

“The scene has been substantially altered from its condition at the time of the homicides including removal of relevant property and furnishings, removal of some structural items such as wallboard and flooring, and subjected to extensive chemical application creating a potential health hazard,” Mr. Thompson wrote in a separate email. “These are some of the reasons that we have concluded that a ‘jury view’ would not be appropriate.”

Should a Notorious Crime Scene Be Demolished Before Trial? (Published 2023)

Officials want to tear down the house where four Idaho college students were murdered last year, setting off a debate over preserving the scenes of mass violence.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Twistinginthewind]

What I have never understood is how (if true) DM could hear Xana say "Someone's here" from her location. I think it more likely it was Kaylee she heard. MOO Any thoughts?

IIRC, the source(s) -- not confirmed and since been scrubbed from the internet AFAIK around early January maybe, so MOO -- about the additional details on noises, thumps, words purportedly heard, etc. during the timeframe of their murders -- said DM thought it was Kaylee who she thought said that, but it might have been Xana. So no telling, IMO.

I lean towards it was Kaylee saying that early on when the killer was just starting to make noise or perhaps had just entered one of the upstairs (3rd floor) bedrooms and the dog was on alert and maybe growling and thrown into the empty bedroom of Kaylee's by the killer to remove him (Murphy) from the scene.

And what DM may have heard Xana say later, after she and Ethan had been attacked and mortally wounded, was the "it's okay, I'll help you" before killing her/them.

Everything about that info from the unconfirmed source(s) was just completely and utterly bone chilling to me, I try not to think about it, because it made real for me the horror of the attacks and their final moments if true, when I was hoping they were killed in their sleep and didn't suffer.

MOO

 

[maconrich]

A jury view of the house would not be appropriate.

Article from @maconrich

Mr. Kohberger’s defense lawyer, Anne Taylor, told campus officials in April that she had “no objection” to the plan, according to an email. The county prosecutor, Bill Thompson, told the university that he also did not object, because the authorities did not think it would be needed for trial.

“The scene has been substantially altered from its condition at the time of the homicides including removal of relevant property and furnishings, removal of some structural items such as wallboard and flooring, and subjected to extensive chemical application creating a potential health hazard,” Mr. Thompson wrote in a separate email. “These are some of the reasons that we have concluded that a ‘jury view’ would not be appropriate.”

Should a Notorious Crime Scene Be Demolished Before Trial? (Published 2023)

Officials want to tear down the house where four Idaho college students were murdered last year, setting off a debate over preserving the scenes of mass violence.

www.nytimes.com

I'm leaning that way too especially given the potential health hazards. My only conflict has been regarding the layout of the house, but if they've been able to create a good 3D rendition, it seems like that might be a better way to go.