4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

[girlhasnoname]

If this case does go to trial, will the prosecution stick to the known facts or do they also have to address the psychological side via expert testimony (or however) in order to give jurors a possible WHY? I realize that could become a slippery
slope to go down and the fact is, we may never know why.

The State doesn't have to prove motive and I believe they have enough proof to place BK at the scene and convict him.

Will jurors be curious as to why? Of course, but I believe the Prosecution will answer their questions by evidence.

And truly, have we ever really learned the reason WHY in these types of cases? There is something innately wrong with a person who can brutally murder 4 innocent college students. which we, as normal citizens, cannot understand.

ALL MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

The defense is doing the job taxpayers pay them to do. I don't believe any member of the defense will quit their job over this case.

JMO

I agree. I think most defense attorneys, either public or private, believe in what they are doing and see their role as bigger than one defendant or one case. People in positions of power being flawed in all the same ways the rest of us are, I can't disagree.

 

[maskedwoman]

The State doesn't have to prove motive and I believe they have enough proof to place BK at the scene and convict him.

Will jurors be curious as to why? Of course, but I believe the Prosecution will answer their questions by evidence.

And truly, have we ever really learned the reason WHY in these types of cases? There is something innately wrong with a person who can brutally murder 4 innocent college students. which we, as normal citizens, cannot understand.

ALL MOO

Rather than a motive, I think the prosecution would be very happy with proving HOW things ended up the way they did. In other words, progression of contact, how/why he selected that house. Sometimes LE are fortunate that the evidence they find also proves motive. But if the evidence is strong, I think a jury would be quite at peace with "I can't imagine WHY someone would do that, but obviously he did". MOOooo

 

[jepop]

Rather than a motive, I think the prosecution would be very happy with proving HOW things ended up the way they did. In other words, progression of contact, how/why he selected that house. Sometimes LE are fortunate that the evidence they find also proves motive. But if the evidence is strong, I think a jury would be quite at peace with "I can't imagine WHY someone would do that, but obviously he did". MOOooo

Agree the how and then the when is much more integral than the why and think most if not all of the prosecutions case will centre on that. Moo

 

[Nila Aella]

SO, this morning I noticed the webserver down for Cases of Interest Page. Now this afternoon it is back but without the entries. Just this at the end: And at the top the last update is listed as 7/13/23.

• 07/12/2023
• 07/12/2023
• 07/12/2023
• 07/12/2023
• 07/12/2023
• 07/12/2023

This is what I posted last time (7/13 links no longer work) File not found

• 07/12/2023 Defendants 5th Supplemental Request
• 07/12/2023 Defendants 6th Supplemental Request
• 07/12/2023 Stipulated Motion to File
• 07/12/2023 Order to File
• 07/12/2023 Stipulated Motion to File
• 07/12/2023 Order to File
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - T-Mobile
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Verizon

And the Case summary page now looks like this without anything past 7/12

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjEuqH1iJ6AAxVkVjUKHUYEArAQFnoECBgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoi.isc.idaho.gov%2F&usg=AOvVaw3QpkN0NQPCGFbgfzIE_S1f&opi=89978449

 

[Nila Aella]

They heard me LOL....Just now came back

• 07/11/2023 States Supplemental Response to Defendants Second Motion to Compel Discovery
• 07/12/2023 States Supplemental Response to Defendants 2nd Supplemental Request for Discovery
• 07/12/2023 Defendants 5th Supplemental Request
• 07/12/2023 Defendants 6th Supplemental Request
• 07/12/2023 Stipulated Motion to File
• 07/12/2023 Order to File
• 07/12/2023 Stipulated Motion to File
• 07/12/2023 Order to File
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - T-Mobile
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Verizon
• 07/14/2023 Affidavit of Rylene L Nowlin
• 07/14/2023 Motion to Temp Seal
• 07/14/2023 Reply In Support of Motion for Protectiive Order
• 07/14/2023 Temp Order Sealing Stipulation and Order Re Return of Evidentiary Items
• 07/17/2023 Motion for Scheduling Order
• 07/17/2023 Motion to Reconsider Order Staying Time for Speedy Trial
• 07/17/2023 Notice of Hearing

ETA Summary page up to date as well

 

[girlhasnoname]

They heard me LOL....Just now came back

• 07/11/2023 States Supplemental Response to Defendants Second Motion to Compel Discovery
• 07/12/2023 States Supplemental Response to Defendants 2nd Supplemental Request for Discovery
• 07/12/2023 Defendants 5th Supplemental Request
• 07/12/2023 Defendants 6th Supplemental Request
• 07/12/2023 Stipulated Motion to File
• 07/12/2023 Order to File
• 07/12/2023 Stipulated Motion to File
• 07/12/2023 Order to File
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Meta
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - T-Mobile
• 07/13/2023 Order to Seal - Verizon
• 07/14/2023 Affidavit of Rylene L Nowlin
• 07/14/2023 Motion to Temp Seal
• 07/14/2023 Reply In Support of Motion for Protectiive Order
• 07/14/2023 Temp Order Sealing Stipulation and Order Re Return of Evidentiary Items
• 07/17/2023 Motion for Scheduling Order
• 07/17/2023 Motion to Reconsider Order Staying Time for Speedy Trial
• 07/17/2023 Notice of Hearing

ETA Summary page up to date as well

I love having these all in one place, thanks Nila.

 

[Cool Cats]

As far as trial proceedings go, I would guess that BK's family would not attend the trial but watch via Zoom. Do you foresee that the defense would follow what was done at Lori Vallow's trial, not call any witnesses but claim that the prosecution did not meet the beyond-a-reasonable doubt threshold? If the defense were to call witnesses, would they all be experts? I can't imagine the defense finding personal friends, family, etc. to testify on BK's behalf.

I think the defense will call their own expert witnesses. Friends and family likely wouldn't help his case so I do not believe they would be called in the Guilt Phase Trial. Yes in the Penalty Phase Trial.

But they really don't need to call alot of their own witnesses because the prosecution will call witnesses of whom the defense wants to examine in front of the jury.

This is a big reason why sometimes a defense rests without calling many or any witnesses, the prosecution has already called them and the defense got to do their cross examination of those witnesses.

This can apply to experts also where the defense cross examines the prosecution expert and may not call their own but with a trial such as Kohberger's the defense will have to call their own experts I believe, they have DNA they need to minimize as much as possible.

And there is all this complicated digital evidence, we are talking digital evidence from multiple people.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

.

 

[Cool Cats]

The State doesn't have to prove motive and I believe they have enough proof to place BK at the scene and convict him.

Will jurors be curious as to why? Of course, but I believe the Prosecution will answer their questions by evidence.

And truly, have we ever really learned the reason WHY in these types of cases? There is something innately wrong with a person who can brutally murder 4 innocent college students. which we, as normal citizens, cannot understand.

ALL MOO

I honestly think this was a 'thrill kill' for BK. He wanted to know what it felt like, who knows maybe he was going to use his experience for his Doctorate Thesis (in abstract of course). He certainly seemed determined the night of the murders.

His frustration and desires may have been building for years, this was really the first time BK was out on his own away from his parents with total anonymity.

ALL MOO

Total hate and rage and vengeance against women. Only a killer in a hateful rage of fury could viciously stab people to death. Stabbing is up close and personal, stabbing a person in bed is as personable as it gets - unlike shooting outside at a distance. It shows pure hate, rage and vengeance.

Killers always kill for a specific reason, to gain something. What did Kohberger gain?

The answer to the motive is whatever he felt he was gaining for himself.

2 Cents

 

[schooling]

The defense is doing the job taxpayers pay them to do. I don't believe any member of the defense will quit their job over this case.

JMO

I was one of the few who defended the $200 an hour she would be earning and the $180 public defender #2 would be earning.

But if a public defender (and those who join the team as #3, #4 attorneys and experts) doesn't think they can competently and confidently do their job...they can ask to be withdrawn and/or replaced. It's not that uncommon.

My opinion is that of an outsider. Like most on WS. It comes from what I've seen so far. It doesn't look like BK is providing them with any lemons to make lemonade. And if that's the case we might see 1 or 2 withdrawls. And that's in the best interest us tax payers, BK, and the victim's families.

And yes, I get that the burden is not on him/them.

Again, my opinion.

 

[MyBelle]

I was one of the few who defended the $200 an hour she would be earning and the $180 public defender #2 would be earning.

But if a public defender (and those who join the team as #3, #4 attorneys and experts) doesn't think they can competently and confidently do their job...they can ask to be withdrawn and/or replaced. It's not that uncommon.

My opinion is that of an outsider. Like most on WS. It comes from what I've seen so far. It doesn't look like BK is providing them with any lemons to make lemonade. And if that's the case we might see 1 or 2 withdrawls. And that's in the best interest us tax payers, BK, and the victim's families.

And yes, I get that the burden is not on him/them.

Again, my opinion.

I think the defense attorneys all are confident in their ability to do their job.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Total hate and rage and vengeance against women. Only a killer in a hateful rage of fury could viciously stab people to death. Stabbing is up close and personal, stabbing a person in bed is as personable as it gets - unlike shooting outside at a distance. It shows pure hate, rage and vengeance.

Killers always kill for a specific reason, to gain something. What did Kohberger gain?

The answer to the motive is whatever he felt he was gaining for himself.

2 Cents

BBM. Bingo!

JMO

 

[kittythehare]

Total hate and rage and vengeance against women. Only a killer in a hateful rage of fury could viciously stab people to death. Stabbing is up close and personal, stabbing a person in bed is as personable as it gets - unlike shooting outside at a distance. It shows pure hate, rage and vengeance.

Killers always kill for a specific reason, to gain something. What did Kohberger gain?

The answer to the motive is whatever he felt he was gaining for himself.

2 Cents

notoriety?
competition with all other known serial killers for speed?
I don't even know if it was rage motivated. part of me thinks it was cold and clinical, fast as f and merely appeased something deep inside himself not involving the finer senses.. maybe something like a belief he held that it was his preordained mission to kill people in groups?

 

[Cool Cats]

notoriety?
competition with all other known serial killers for speed?
I don't even know if it was rage motivated. part of me thinks it was cold and clinical, fast as f and merely appeased something deep inside himself not involving the finer senses.. maybe something like a belief he held that it was his preordained mission to kill people in groups?

Good points.

Cold and clinical means no emotion and no overkill. A very organized crime scene.

Both crime scenes and the stab wounds and the number of victims shows the opposite of this and shows a very disorganized crime scene.

How it seems to me from all the descriptions of the crimes.

Also, there are descriptions of BK's anger and other issues that seem overly sensitive and overly emotional.

 

[kittythehare]

Good points.

Cold and clinical means no emotion and no overkill. A very organized crime scene.

Both crime scenes and the stab wounds and the number of victims shows the opposite of this and shows a very disorganized crime scene.

How it seems to me from all the descriptions of the crimes.

 

[kittythehare]

sorry coolcats I broke the reply.
I mean he conducted the vicious killings while remaining calm and cold.
Without emotion.
He stayed back... his body did it... but he was not emotionally engaged, not angry, not anything except cold...
I'm speculating like crazy but this is where it takes me..

 

[Cool Cats]

sorry coolcats I broke the reply.
I mean he conducted the vicious killings while remaining calm and cold.
Without emotion.
He stayed back... his body did it... but he was not emotionally engaged, not angry, not anything except cold...
I'm speculating like crazy but this is where it takes me..

I think we both could be right, that it was pure rage but when he stepped in the house he pushed emotion aside. Hard to get into the mind of a killer, very disturbing. I'm going to see if there is anything in MSM where professional profilers give their opinions.

Every killer kills for a reason, to gain something. Money, valuables, custody, revenge, get a romantic rival out of the way, etc... But when killers kill just for psychological reasons it makes no sense. Not that it ever makes sense, but at least it gives a motive.

BK obviously gained something but that something is in his own mind - psychological - and if we knew what this is we would have his motive.

2 CT's

 

[I'm Nobody]

Total hate and rage and vengeance against women. Only a killer in a hateful rage of fury could viciously stab people to death. Stabbing is up close and personal, stabbing a person in bed is as personable as it gets - unlike shooting outside at a distance. It shows pure hate, rage and vengeance.

Killers always kill for a specific reason, to gain something. What did Kohberger gain?

The answer to the motive is whatever he felt he was gaining for himself.

2 Cents

What did Kohberger gain? Pleasure.

Right, most murders are motivated by money, love, revenge. Villains are harder to figure out. I'd like to know BK's backstory. Cause & effect. What made BK into a killer? It's hard to believe pretty little girls bullying him was the reason. But maybe part of the reason. There must be events we don't know, can't talk about here.

IMO Hate/anger/hurting women got mixed together with pleasure in BK's young mind and he thought about it/revised it/obsessed over it for years. He collected pieces/ideas from the killers he studied, maybe a certain date stayed in his fantasy. He bought the knife before he left PA. He thought he was a criminal mastermind. Maybe getting away with it became part of his fantasy.

At WSU, BK, very immature, was like a troubled boy without his parents for the first time, driven by his desires, impulsive, no longer able to control his recurrent thrill-kill-pleasure fantasy & no prying eyes to curb his behavior. In August he was already hunting targets; Sept 23 his first altercation--what distracted him so much he failed to meet expectations so soon? IMO His life ran amok for his dark pleasures.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

What did Kohberger gain? Pleasure.

Right, most murders are motivated by money, love, revenge. Villains are harder to figure out. I'd like to know BK's backstory. Cause & effect. What made BK into a killer? It's hard to believe pretty little girls bullying him was the reason. But maybe part of the reason. There must be events we don't know, can't talk about here.

IMO Hate/anger/hurting women got mixed together with pleasure in BK's young mind and he thought about it/revised it/obsessed over it for years. He collected pieces/ideas from the killers he studied, maybe a certain date stayed in his fantasy. He bought the knife before he left PA. He thought he was a criminal mastermind. Maybe getting away with it became part of his fantasy.

At WSU, BK, very immature, was like a troubled boy without his parents for the first time, driven by his desires, impulsive, no longer able to control his recurrent thrill-kill-pleasure fantasy & no prying eyes to curb his behavior. In August he was already hunting targets; Sept 23 his first altercation--what distracted him so much he failed to meet expectations so soon? IMO His life ran amok for his dark pleasures.

JMO

I can never quite forget 'it's okay, I'm going to help you.' Did he feel rage and hate? Maybe. Did he do it for pleasure? Maybe. But that statement, which likely came after already violently killing three people, and about to kill again, sounds eerily calm and collected for the situation. I think he's a psychopath, literally, or at least he was in that moment, and I'm not convinced he truly felt much of anything. I think the planning was where he got his pleasure. Jmo.