4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #86

[MyBelle]

You don't think he knew that he was a suspect?

I think since he drove a white Elantra, even if he isn't the murderer, he surely must have thought about it. He's alleged to be very bright. He has a master's in criminal justice. Then he gets stopped twice in Indiana (and to me, looks seriously and intensely bothered at the time). He's putting things in the neighbor's trash (which I suppose an innocent person might do if they thought they were a suspect). I think he was worried. If innocent, he would be worried anyway. Surely he isn't that unaware of what goes on around him? There's a massive hunt for a white Elantra (sure, slightly different year announced, but still, if I drove any form of white Elantra, and lived in the area, I'd be thinking everyone was expecting me to contact police and suspecting me of murder). I don't think I'm alone in that.

If he did do it, then of course he knew what was happening.

But even if not, I doubt he thought this was a random break-in out in the middle of "the woods" in the Poconos, not when he was feeling anxious enough about his trash that he had to baggie it and carry it next door. I know people keep proposing good reasons for this behavior, but even his one sister was apparently suspicious. While his juvenile record had been expunged, since he was an MA in criminal justice, he knew they'd start running all white Elantras against the FBI's database at some point using names of all Elantra owners in the immediate reason (and they'd find minor convictions even though unexpunged - like his stealing of his sister's phone and selling it). They might even find evidence of his former treatment for heroin addiction. He surely knew that in a case like this, a list of some 200 suspects might include him (just as Joe DeAngelo was aware, and kept moving and changing his MO and then somehow apparently stopped being a serial killer).

He also knew he was in trouble with his prof, that his university was ejecting him, and since his prof was a criminologist, surely he wondered if that prof might not speak to police about him? Most profs I know, criminal justice or not, will reach out to at least campus police if they suspect someone of a major crime. We're actually trained to do that - and the police are professionals who take it from there. Most campus police are trained to be fair and tolerant toward students, so it's not like starting a witch hunt.

He's smart enough to know that he was a suspect. And he knew he had a missing sheath with his DNA on it, somewhere (no matter how it got there, I believe he knew about the sheath and had interacted with the sheath).

IMO.

BBM. All very good points!

JMO

 

[gremlin444]

Just a random thought...

How did the murderer plan to deal with the presence of Murphy? Unless this house/these occupants were picked totally at random that very night with no advanced scoping out of the premises or internet info search on the roommates, the murderer would know that Murphy (up until recently) lived there. Even if the target was Maddie, given how close she and Kaylee were and the fact they lived together an online stalker would see images of Murphy popping up in her social media. And if no one person was the target but the house was being surveilled, they'd see Murphy and evidence of his existence through the windows or out back when he was let out.

The only 2 ways I can think of for an attacker who had been tracking the house/girls to not be aware that they would have to account for Murphy would be that the murderer either 1) didn't know that Kaylee was back visiting because it was a last minute trip (which would mean they hadn't looked at the girls' social media that day or hadn't looked at the house that day) and/or they didn't recognize her new car or 2) knew that Kaylee would be visiting but didn't think that she would have brought Murphy with her.

Even if the murderer had been scoping the house out and planned to attack only Maddie, they would know that there would be little to no chance of Murphy not detecting a stranger in the house in the middle of the night much less than not alerting to the sounds of an attack across the hall.

 

[Cool Cats]

Just a random thought...

How did the murderer plan to deal with the presence of Murphy? Unless this house/these occupants were picked totally at random that very night with no advanced scoping out of the premises or internet info search on the roommates, the murderer would know that Murphy (up until recently) lived there. Even if the target was Maddie, given how close she and Kaylee were and the fact they lived together an online stalker would see images of Murphy popping up in her social media. And if no one person was the target but the house was being surveilled, they'd see Murphy and evidence of his existence through the windows or out back when he was let out.

The only 2 ways I can think of for an attacker who had been tracking the house/girls to not be aware that they would have to account for Murphy would be that the murderer either 1) didn't know that Kaylee was back visiting because it was a last minute trip (which would mean they hadn't looked at the girls' social media that day or hadn't looked at the house that day) and/or they didn't recognize her new car or 2) knew that Kaylee would be visiting but didn't think that she would have brought Murphy with her.

Even if the murderer had been scoping the house out and planned to attack only Maddie, they would know that there would be little to no chance of Murphy not detecting a stranger in the house in the middle of the night much less than not alerting to the sounds of an attack across the hall.

Didn't KG just recently move out?

What if BK saw posts about her moving out and deliberately waited for her and Murphy to be gone before going in?

Even if he saw her new car he could have thought she was in her own room but was surprised by her and thus more overkill towards her.

Maybe MM was the target and the other 3 were only killed because they were witnesses who would have immediately called 911.

But then why leave another witness alive - DM? She could have right away discovered her friends and called 911, he didn't know.

The hallway isn't huge so seems like he would have seen her but was afraid of getting caught and wanted to get out fast, thus, the video showing the car tearing out fast. Then maybe this is why he took those back roads - to circumvent LE because he was afraid the witness in the hallway was going to call 911.

Going back at 9:00am could have been to check and see if she had called 911.

2 Cents

 

[kittythehare]

Didn't KG just recently move out?

What if BK saw posts about her moving out and deliberately waited for her and Murphy to be gone before going in?

Even if he saw her new car he could have thought she was in her own room but was surprised by her and thus more overkill towards her.

Maybe MM was the target and the other 3 were only killed because they were witnesses who would have immediately called 911.

But then why leave another witness alive - DM? She could have right away discovered her friends and called 911, he didn't know.

The hallway isn't huge so seems like he would have seen her but was afraid of getting caught and wanted to get out fast, thus, the video showing the car tearing out fast. Then maybe this is why he took those back roads - to circumvent LE because he was afraid the witness in the hallway was going to call 911.

Going back at 9:00am could have been to check and see if she had called 911.

2 Cents

it's been my impression his 'mission' was to kill 4 precisely.
could speculate further that he was mimicking other serial killers who started with 4 victims but we've discussed all that before.
We may never know.

 

[kittythehare]

Just a random thought...

How did the murderer plan to deal with the presence of Murphy? Unless this house/these occupants were picked totally at random that very night with no advanced scoping out of the premises or internet info search on the roommates, the murderer would know that Murphy (up until recently) lived there. Even if the target was Maddie, given how close she and Kaylee were and the fact they lived together an online stalker would see images of Murphy popping up in her social media. And if no one person was the target but the house was being surveilled, they'd see Murphy and evidence of his existence through the windows or out back when he was let out.

The only 2 ways I can think of for an attacker who had been tracking the house/girls to not be aware that they would have to account for Murphy would be that the murderer either 1) didn't know that Kaylee was back visiting because it was a last minute trip (which would mean they hadn't looked at the girls' social media that day or hadn't looked at the house that day) and/or they didn't recognize her new car or 2) knew that Kaylee would be visiting but didn't think that she would have brought Murphy with her.

Even if the murderer had been scoping the house out and planned to attack only Maddie, they would know that there would be little to no chance of Murphy not detecting a stranger in the house in the middle of the night much less than not alerting to the sounds of an attack across the hall.

Well, murphy was no vicious guard dog ready to rip the throat of an intruder, he would never have posed a threat of any description to the killer.

 

[Boxer]

Well, murphy was no vicious guard dog ready to rip the throat of an intruder, he would never have posed a threat of any description to the killer.

MOO Other than barking. Barking and getting killed mid bark might have been more as diagnostic something more serious was going on for DM than thumping, bumping, some crying and general drama of a man in a mask MOO kinds of things that that can go on at a "party" house on a weekend night.

 

[10ofRods]

it's been my impression his 'mission' was to kill 4 precisely.
could speculate further that he was mimicking other serial killers who started with 4 victims but we've discussed all that before.
We may never know.

I think so too, although I can't say exactly why (or it is overly speculative).

This is one we'll learn at trial.

IMO

 

[al66pine]

Pub. Def'r. who was appt'ed to rep BK re extradiction from PA to ID, said
--- BK was "calm."
... Okay, maybe so.

--- BK said this is not him.
... Okay.

--- BK said he believes he’ll be exonerated.
... Okay.

--- BK called the "charges 'a little out of character.'
... Wot, wot, wot? Arrest on quadruple murder charges?
... A LITTLE out of character?
... Who could respond by saying that, as if it's a parking ticket?


Thank you @Twistinginthewind (I snipped for focus)

.... his PA PD said he seemed "calm".
When his PA PD said "He called the charges "a little out of character... those were his words.". Public defender says Idaho murder suspect is ‘calm,’ believes he’ll be exonerated: ‘This is not him’... an accused quadruple murderer to say after being arrested and taken into custody.

 

[Balthazar]

You don't think he knew that he was a suspect?

I think since he drove a white Elantra, even if he isn't the murderer, he surely must have thought about it. He's alleged to be very bright. He has a master's in criminal justice. Then he gets stopped twice in Indiana (and to me, looks seriously and intensely bothered at the time). He's putting things in the neighbor's trash (which I suppose an innocent person might do if they thought they were a suspect). I think he was worried. If innocent, he would be worried anyway. Surely he isn't that unaware of what goes on around him? There's a massive hunt for a white Elantra (sure, slightly different year announced, but still, if I drove any form of white Elantra, and lived in the area, I'd be thinking everyone was expecting me to contact police and suspecting me of murder). I don't think I'm alone in that.

If he did do it, then of course he knew what was happening.

But even if not, I doubt he thought this was a random break-in out in the middle of "the woods" in the Poconos, not when he was feeling anxious enough about his trash that he had to baggie it and carry it next door. I know people keep proposing good reasons for this behavior, but even his one sister was apparently suspicious. While his juvenile record had been expunged, since he was an MA in criminal justice, he knew they'd start running all white Elantras against the FBI's database at some point using names of all Elantra owners in the immediate reason (and they'd find minor convictions even though unexpunged - like his stealing of his sister's phone and selling it). They might even find evidence of his former treatment for heroin addiction. He surely knew that in a case like this, a list of some 200 suspects might include him (just as Joe DeAngelo was aware, and kept moving and changing his MO and then somehow apparently stopped being a serial killer).

He also knew he was in trouble with his prof, that his university was ejecting him, and since his prof was a criminologist, surely he wondered if that prof might not speak to police about him? Most profs I know, criminal justice or not, will reach out to at least campus police if they suspect someone of a major crime. We're actually trained to do that - and the police are professionals who take it from there. Most campus police are trained to be fair and tolerant toward students, so it's not like starting a witch hunt.

He's smart enough to know that he was a suspect. And he knew he had a missing sheath with his DNA on it, somewhere (no matter how it got there, I believe he knew about the sheath and had interacted with the sheath).

IMO.

Whether innocent or guilty, whether BK thought LE might be after him or not, I think that LE breaking in like that (and it would have been a sudden, coordinated and LOUD break-in) would have scared him and his flight response apparently kicked in immediately and he ran for any safety he could. The three most expected responses to this type of sudden stimulus are fight, flight or freeze. His was a classic example of a flight response. The response is a completely involuntary response by the autonomic nervous system and he could not have controlled himself or done anything different. Fight, flight, or freeze response: Signs, causes, and recovery.

 

[MyBelle]

Didn't KG just recently move out?

What if BK saw posts about her moving out and deliberately waited for her and Murphy to be gone before going in?

Even if he saw her new car he could have thought she was in her own room but was surprised by her and thus more overkill towards her.

Maybe MM was the target and the other 3 were only killed because they were witnesses who would have immediately called 911.

But then why leave another witness alive - DM? She could have right away discovered her friends and called 911, he didn't know.

The hallway isn't huge so seems like he would have seen her but was afraid of getting caught and wanted to get out fast, thus, the video showing the car tearing out fast. Then maybe this is why he took those back roads - to circumvent LE because he was afraid the witness in the hallway was going to call 911.

Going back at 9:00am could have been to check and see if she had called 911.

2 Cents

Or maybe BK saw posts that she was returning for a visit?

JMO

 

[gremlin444]

MOO Other than barking. Barking and getting killed mid bark might have been more as diagnostic something more serious was going on for DM than thumping, bumping, some crying and general drama of a man in a mask MOO kinds of things that that can go on at a "party" house on a weekend night.

Exactly. And since you have people living on all 3 floors, even if you have one floor of people contained, the other two can react by other calling the police or by rushing in to help. It seems a bit hard to think that the killer, if he did know Murphy was there, just shrugged off the likelihood of him alerting others and those others actually taking action. If the killer did, he couldn't have predicted that the other roommates would react the way they actually did by hiding in their rooms, not calling 911, and not going to investigate until many hours later. The killer got lucky--what if Murphy had started barking the minute he entered the house, and one of the roomies had immediately called 911? Or Ethan had woken up fully and grabbed something heavy to use for defense and gone to investigate?

I suspect the killer didn't view the girls themselves as a potential physical threat. But what about Ethan? Argh, it all makes my brain ache trying to figure it out.

1) Killer stalking house & girls in advance--should know about Ethan and Ethan's car, so he would have known he was spending the night. Discounts him as a threat?? May or may not know about Kaylee and/or Murphy being there--if not aware, indicates the killer hadn't checked social media or done much observation of the house that very day. If doesn't know about Kaylee's new car, is taking a big gamble that the strange car he sees parked there as he's driving around isn't some guy in bed with one of the girls, because now you would have 2 guys in that house.
2) Killer not stalking or observing the house or girls in advance--you pick a random house that night, which just happens to luckily have all girls. Could easily have been a house of 5 guys. Could have multiple dogs. Could be gun owners. This option is just total insanity, beyond extreme levels of superiority complex, or someone who doesn't care if they die.
3) Killer stalking the house and girls in advance, knows Ethan, Kaylee, and Murphy are there.....and has such a god level of confidence, superiority, and estimation of skills/intelligence (but lower than that of option #2) that he sees them as no problem.

 

[sassyblue]

Whether innocent or guilty, whether BK thought LE might be after him or not, I think that LE breaking in like that (and it would have been a sudden, coordinated and LOUD break-in) would have scared him and his flight response apparently kicked in immediately and he ran for any safety he could. The three most expected responses to this type of sudden stimulus are fight, flight or freeze. His was a classic example of a flight response. The response is a completely involuntary response by the autonomic nervous system and he could not have controlled himself or done anything different. Fight, flight, or freeze response: Signs, causes, and recovery.

Yeah his nervous system picked flight because he knew they were coming for HIM.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

It was Newsweek that originally printed the article, the Statesman "borrowed" it.

And now, today, the Press Tribune piggy-backed on to an article from a northern Idaho newspaper.

Kohberger's team seeks indictment dismissal

An attorney for Bryan Kohberger is asking the Latah County District judge to dismiss the grand jury indictment that led to the quadruple murder suspect’s arraignment.

www.idahopress.com

It seem that the defense is receiving favorable press, despite the gag order.

Good catch on the Press Tribune — the Daily News is my local paper, so it’s nice to not only see others picking up their reporting, but it also gets the reporting out from behind the M-P Daily News’ paywall for sharing as you did!

I’m a paying subscriber to almost everything, but I rarely post links anymore because of the paywalls WSers encounter even when I log out of the various accounts & can still see the articles, so I appreciate good catches like this!

 

[Boxer]

Yeah his nervous system picked flight because he knew they were coming for HIM.

Exactly.
I think an innocent man upon home invasion would choose to run to his aging arents and attempt to protect them or die trying.

 

[Boxer]

To confuse the issues.

 

[Balthazar]

IMO, AT is engaging in semantics with the "alibi" terminology. If there is a genuine alibi, we would have heard about it long before now. MOO

I strongly disagree. That is not what good defense attorneys do and Anne Taylor is known for being is a particularly good defense attorney.

 

[sassyblue]

If a client had a fool proof, provable alibi a good defense attorney would shout it from the tree tops with a bullhorn! A good defense attorney would never leave a client languishing in jail with a death penalty trial looming over his head if he had a REAL alibi.

 

[Boxer]

If a client had a fool proof, provable alibi a good defense attorney would shout it from the tree tops with a bullhorn! A good defense attorney would never leave a client languishing in jail with a death penalty trial looming over his head if he had a REAL alibi.

MOO His alibi is that AT can shred young women on the stand.

 

[kittythehare]

If a client had a fool proof, provable alibi a good defense attorney would shout it from the tree tops with a bullhorn! A good defense attorney would never leave a client languishing in jail with a death penalty trial looming over his head if he had a REAL alibi.

the 'client' would have informed LE immediately and it would never have gone to court and he would have been released immediately.

'i was elsewhere with my friends whose names and contact details are x, y and z. Check them out for yourselves.'

 

[Boxer]

To confuse the issues.

Maybe so, but that's not really an alibi. If BF did see someone else, and BK was not the killer, then why not tell the jurors what his alibi is? Where was he and what was he doing at that time of the morning?

Why try to eke out a vague version of an alibi using cross exam questions and the survivor's texts? Why not just directly tell the facts and spell out his alibi?

Check out post #20 on this thread by Megnut. She called it, expected this flurry of distracting motions.