4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #86

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She was in private practice. This isn't her first and/or one and only job.

Second part matters to me. MOO. And, I'm not even a resident of Idaho. This is a supposedly indigent defendant with a multimillion dollar private practice team on the taxpayer's dime.

I'm sure all indigent defendants currently awaiting trial in Latah County would like the same treatment -- but they're not getting it.

All MOO
I’m again chronically behind so apologies in advance if this has already been addressed!

Anne Taylor is the Chief of the Kootenai County Public Defenders Office & has been since 2017. AFAIK, that’s a full time job. Can you please provide a link that indicates otherwise?

Also, please enlighten me about any other defendants in Latah County who are facing the death penalty, which requires a very specific legally required skill set to defend.

Yes, she has private practice experience, and she also has experience as a prosecuting attorney. As the only death qualified lead public defense attorney in this whole part of the state, she was assigned to BK, a process that was monitored not only by the State of Idaho Public Defense Commission but also received judicial approval, MOO.

IANAL, but I have long been an advocate for the reformation of Idaho’s inadequate public defense, so your comments puzzle me. If you’re interested in learning about public defense problems in Idaho, you might want to read about Tucker v Idaho and see how much progress we’ve made. It’s an ongoing process, of course, but as an Idaho taxpayer, I’d like to better understand your point.
 
She was in private practice. This isn't her first and/or one and only job.

Second part matters to me. MOO. And, I'm not even a resident of Idaho. This is a supposedly indigent defendant with a multimillion dollar private practice team on the taxpayer's dime.

I'm sure all indigent defendants currently awaiting trial in Latah County would like the same treatment -- but they're not getting it.

All MOO
"Taylor, who has specialized in criminal defense in private practice for the firm of Palmer, George and Taylor for the past five years, was hired as the new Kootenai County public defender."
 
Murphy the dog
Well, murphy was no vicious guard dog ready to rip the throat of an intruder, he would never have posed a threat of any description to the killer.
You could be right @kittythehare but I have a different take on Murphy.
Kaylee's sister said Murphy wasn't a barker and always slept with Kaylee or Maddie.
I've been through a few scenarios about DM hearing what she thought was Kaylee playing with Murphy, then Kaylee saying something like......."there's somebody here." I keep coming back to DM's recall in the PCA. DM would have known her roommates' voices, the sounds of Murphy & Kaylee.

Dogs are incredible creatures. IMO Quiet, sweet, lovable Murphy was sleeping in the same bed with Maddie & Kaylee as always that night. Murphy heard BK enter the house. Murphy, maybe smelled BK's adrenaline, sensed something bad. Murphy, not vicious, not a barker, but yes, a guard dog, not in the traditional sense, had to warn Kaylee. Murphy nudged Kaylee, licked her, put his paws on her & whimpered. Kaylee woke & whispered for Murphy to stop but Murphy would not stop. The closer BK got to the stairs the more agitated Murphy became. Kaylee got up bc Murphy is now pacing around her, whining, snapping, maybe growling. Kaylee is beside herself. What's wrong boy? He's never acted like this before. Out of pure frustration, Kaylee drags Murphy to her old bedroom and closes the door.

I think DM was correct about it being Kaylee & Murphy making noise. But it wasn't playing, it was Murphy trying to warn the owner he loved so much of the danger he knew was in the house. It was Murphy trying to guard Kaylee.

Dog lover. Team Murphy all the way. JMO speculation
Sorry I am also behind in reading and posting.
 
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Whilst IMO they have charged the correct person , if hypothetically he were either a) innocent or b) part of a group who killed what would that mean??
That the real killer is still around and could do it again ?
That the cops are failing to look accurately

No way I believe he is framed btw so at best my mind can stretch to b)
I so want the truth to come out on this one so people can understand how and why these poor students died
 
"Taylor, who has specialized in criminal defense in private practice for the firm of Palmer, George and Taylor for the past five years, was hired as the new Kootenai County public defender."
Dated 2017 & detailing her experience prior to being hired by Kootenai County for the full-time position. That private firm, BTW, no longer exists. My MOO hunch is that firm was dissolved & perhaps reformed (absent AT & her name) when she was hired by Kootenai County.

In any case, I don’t think she’s been in private practice in recent years, AFAIK. Happy to be corrected, tho, if anyone has proof otherwise.

Historically, Idaho has failed to adequately fund public defense, so counties provided public defense services through contracts with attorneys in private practice. Larger counties like Kootenai, Ada, Canyon, etc have established formal public defense offices while smaller counties like Latah still rely on contracts with attorneys in private practice.

The potential for the death penalty comes with mandatory requirements only 14 attorneys in the entire state meet as lead; I’ve posted this following link many times throughout the threads, but you might/might not find the links available from this link to be helpful:
Capital Defending Attorney Qualifications and Roster
 
"Taylor, who has specialized in criminal defense in private practice for the firm of Palmer, George and Taylor for the past five years, was hired as the new Kootenai County public defender."
Thanks for posting up this article. So she has been in the PDO since 2017. I'm not surprised she had a job somewhere else in the Private sector before she was hired to be the lead PD or whatever it says her position is. I'm totally with you and others here who think the current D tactics are strategised and/or may have the effect of wearing down the P's case pre-trial with litigation. But I'm not sure of why it's relevant that AT most likely did take a pay cut to work for the PDO? Or why it's significant that she worked previously in the private sector? I think she is quoted as saying at the time she took the job she was interested in representing public defendants and constitutionla rights. It makes sense to me. Jmo.
 
Thanks for posting up this article. So she has been in the PDO since 2017. I'm not surprised she had a job somewhere else in the Private sector before she was hired to be the lead PD or whatever it says her position is. I'm totally with you and others here who think the current D tactics are strategised and/or may have the effect of wearing down the P's case pre-trial with litigation. But I'm not sure of why it's relevant that AT most likely did take a pay cut to work for the PDO? Or why it's significant that she worked previously in the private sector? I think she is quoted as saying at the time she took the job she was interested in representing public defendants and constitutionla rights. It makes sense to me. Jmo.
[emphasis mine] Couldn't agree more :)
 
I strongly disagree. That is not what good defense attorneys do and Anne Taylor is known for being is a particularly good defense attorney.
Any "good defense attorney" (as well as attorneys who aren't so good) would disclose a legitimate and verifiable alibi, which would get the perpetrator off Death Row, out of prison etc.

Yet I continue to be baffled as to why AT would continue with the whole alibi non-event (MOO) if she is "a good defense attorney".

To be clear, I have no doubt that AT is, indeed, a "good defense attorney".

On reflection, my bad - instead of using the "engaging in semantics" phrase, perhaps I should have used a more appropriate phrase - ie "desparation tactics". IMO.
 
I suspect that AT could make a lot more money as a private attorney if that was her goal. Also, she was assigned the BK case, IIRC, because she is one of a very few death-penalty qualified attorneys in that part of the state.

And with regard to BK not having paid taxes in the state of Idaho, I don't think that matters. He is facing death by firing squad in the state, and thus, IMO, deserving of qualified counsel.

All IMO
Responding to the assertion that AT is all about the money and stardom, I agree with you. Taking a job at the PD is contradictory to that general characterisation. Moo
 
Whether innocent or guilty, whether BK thought LE might be after him or not, I think that LE breaking in like that (and it would have been a sudden, coordinated and LOUD break-in) would have scared him and his flight response apparently kicked in immediately and he ran for any safety he could. The three most expected responses to this type of sudden stimulus are fight, flight or freeze. His was a classic example of a flight response. The response is a completely involuntary response by the autonomic nervous system and he could not have controlled himself or done anything different. Fight, flight, or freeze response: Signs, causes, and recovery.

I'm aware of the biology of fear and it's one of my favorite topics. These days, most scientists would say that there are more than three responses. My point wasn't about whether he was adrenalized/panicked/slightly afraid/very afraid or anything like that. I would have thought he was living in a state of anxiety - less severe if he was innocent, more severe if he is not, but with him aware that he could be/probably was a suspect.

You said you thought he was surprised in the way similar to what any of us would feel if we were caught by people breaking in, in the middle of the night (I may have misunderstood you). I said I thought he was probably already nervous. You could be right - he might have had no clue that he was being surveilled by cops outside his house almost from the time he arrived home. He might never have pondered whether his own white Elantra was on some kind of list. It's entirely possible.

I do think that people with a background in law or criminal studies tend to have minds that go in "what if" directions, including "What if people think I did it?"

Here's an article (unfortunately only part of it is free) that posits four different responses (the fourth one is lie/dissemble)


Researchers found that genetics influenced which response was going to be used. Interestingly, in situations where groups of people were confronted by a real threat, all four have been observed. Panicked bargaining and pleading is a potential fifth (and there are parallels in non-human animal behavior, which is important - because the biochemistry of this is central to understanding it). Note that in humans, there seems to be a suggestion that we can use pretense/acting as a bucket category for "submit," "negotiate" and "lie." Many of us have seen this in action.

Genetic and neurochemical research has found specific biomarkers corresponding to the biological state "freeze" (it's a fascinating topic). And very different ones (but related) associated to "flight." And "freeze" is usually held to be a kind of setting in between "fight" and "flight" (in terms of biochemistry).

This is a proposed fifth response that says "submit" is another choice:


Naturally, there are different rubrics for what separates "freeze" from "submit" (but the biochemistry seems to indicate there are more states than just two or three).

Also, it's clear that culture mediates all this in humans. Some cultures are more prone to one set of these, and so on. Many cultures deliberately terrify their offspring as they grow up, in order to observe and train these responses, reshaping them (the Hopi are particularly interesting in this regard). People who undergo military or police training actually modify their biochemistry so that their responses are different. So do people who study martial arts (that's one of the main points). Deliberately scary activities are part of basic training, military training, scuba diving, etc. People who do these things modify their responses.

Studying grim stuff sometimes induces a change in all these responses. There are doctors and nurses who (embarrassing to themselves) passed out at some point in their early training, and revived, got up and continued onward - again and again in some cases. The body learns to modify the response. Repeated exposure to scary situations is basically how it's done.

In this case, BK has a "safe space" that just happened to have a weapon in it, which was of course a strong possibility in this case, hence the form of arrest we saw. IMO. People make "safe spaces" with weapons in them all the time. LE always errs in the direction of just acting as if that's the case and that the suspect may make a run for that safe space (make a stand). I have no clue if that report of Kohberger darting downstairs is backed up by strong evidence or not. Can't even remember where it was reported.

My point is that I simply can't believe it wasn't in the back of his mind (and that's of course IMO).
 
"Taylor, who has specialized in criminal defense in private practice for the firm of Palmer, George and Taylor for the past five years, was hired as the new Kootenai County public defender."
Thanks @Jurisprudence for posting this.
IDK why but the most interesting part of that article, to me, was that Taylor worked for 5 years in the Kootenai County prosecutor's office before going into private practice. My guess is she became DP qualified during those 5 years at the prosecutor's office. She switched from public service to private and back to public. Perhaps she feels time served as a prosecutor makes her a better public defender.

JMO
 
@Boxer
Flurry of Distracting Motions? aka "Papering them to Death"
Phrase may be more commonly used in the world of corporate law.
Yes. Death by a thousand paper cuts!
This entire reminds me of too many cases where the verbiage the defense floated out did make one question if perp will walk.
I’m sure he is majorly ego elevated strategizing with his council.
After all…
BK the Narcissist thinks it’s your fault he left the knife sheath there.

MOO
 
Right. BBs can kill hit the right spot at close range at by repeated hitting same spot. They can wound more easily.
Motions to dismiss, other motions and alibi footsie are the equivalent checking in hockey, wearing your opponent down by repeatedly hitting them, I wish to see some calls from the bench but if that is lacking to see some hitting back from the prosecutor.
Bill Thompson responded very firmly, but professionally, on a previous Motion by the Defense to Stay. I was impressed that he used the letter of the law to support his response.

I expect we'll see something very similar in his response to the 23 page melodramatic, cartoonish motion drafted by Logsdon recently. I mean really, does the man just want to hear himself talk or just rewrite judicial history?

Maybe BK is there with him while drafting these, you know, the other 'smartest man in the room' trying to outsmart the professional. BK is a Regional Champion Extemporaneous Speaker and all. Oh to be a fly on that wall. :eek:

MOO
 
Bill Thompson responded very firmly, but professionally, on a previous Motion by the Defense to Stay. I was impressed that he used the letter of the law to support his response.

I expect we'll see something very similar in his response to the 23 page melodramatic, cartoonish motion drafted by Logsdon recently. I mean really, does the man just want to hear himself talk or just rewrite judicial history?

Maybe BK is there with him while drafting these, you know, the other 'smartest man in the room' trying to outsmart the professional. BK is a Regional Champion Extemporaneous Speaker and all. Oh to be a fly on that wall. :eek:

MOO
So true, he's keeping up the measured and professional responses. There was a firm response to the D's Response to Alibi Demand, namely a Motion to compel. That's a first for the state in this case and I can see why they've gone straight there. Moo
 
For the D to represent that BK has an alibi/alibi defense and even seek an extension of the same is IMO disingenuous. To suggest one will be presented at trial, vis-a-vis the experts and witnesses is IMO a dodge. It denies the Prosecution the proper notice to investigate his claim and prepare their case accordingly.

From this, I conclude that he has no alibi and what his defense plans to attempt to do is challenge eyewitness and expert (digital/forensic) testimony to wiggle open the possibility that his car, his phone, his knife, his eyebrows and his self weren't there. And if there's a teensy tiny possibility all the data points could be a tiny bit off, then he could've been elsewhere. Like an inverse alibi or something. There's not IMO a different place BK was at.

I draw one other conclusion, MOO-- whilst I believe BK is capable of participating in his own defense, I think he is not actually participating. I extrapolate from what I believe to be true about his interactions with people in general and women, in specific. I don't think BK, by nature, plays well with others, especially IMO women. Play, work, relate. I think he largely remains silent in the company of his attorneys because there's great power in that. As well, selself-control. And I happen to think BK lives within a very fixed framework of control.

I don't think he particularly cares about the outcome of a trial. Murder didn't make him suddenly more sociable, more personable, more integrated and associating.

He's a watcher IMO and he's watching.

JMO
I agree with the majority of your post, but I feel like BK is definitely having some say in his defense. He's at his best with a captive audience, he can't help himself.

He will be trying to prove just how smart he is to his Defense team, but I bet he's still coming across as creepy as ever.

MOO
 
My earlier post: ". @Boxer
Flurry of Distracting Motions? aka "Papering them to Death"
Phrase may be more commonly used in the world of corporate law."

Yes. Death by a thousand paper cuts!....
snipped for focus @ BeachSky
Okay, we know " Death by a thousand paper cuts!"

"Papering them to Death" = more like SMOTHERING the opposing party w WEIGHT of motions, briefs, etc.

Then there's a phrase quantifying the volume of paper filling a BOX CAR or a FREIGHT CAR.

Seems those phrases are all applicable in this case.
 
I believe that US citizens know or should know that if they are being accused of a crime they should not speak to LE about ANYTHING but instead should ask to speak to an attorney, therefore, the first person they should talk to about their alibi, IS their attorney, not LE. This is well-established US law, so it is not anyone's opinion, it is fact. But, as far as a link, the 5th and 6th Amendments of the US Constitution. The Amendments | Constitution Center
I was talking about the statistics cited. I take the speaking about an alibi part as opinion. You cited a bunch of statistics as facts. Thanks.
 
Whether innocent or guilty, whether BK thought LE might be after him or not, I think that LE breaking in like that (and it would have been a sudden, coordinated and LOUD break-in) would have scared him and his flight response apparently kicked in immediately and he ran for any safety he could. The three most expected responses to this type of sudden stimulus are fight, flight or freeze. His was a classic example of a flight response. The response is a completely involuntary response by the autonomic nervous system and he could not have controlled himself or done anything different. Fight, flight, or freeze response: Signs, causes, and recovery.
I’ve seen plenty of people’s ’flight’ response kick in. They tend to face resisting or evading arrest charges.

The police likely announced themselves upon entry. I don’t think it matters much in the eye of the law if BK just didn’t happen to hear them.

That sounds like a super privileged explanation. I wouldn’t have ran, but I didn’t hear you…
 
My earlier post: ". @Boxer
Flurry of Distracting Motions? aka "Papering them to Death"
Phrase may be more commonly used in the world of corporate law."


snipped for focus @ BeachSky
Okay, we know " Death by a thousand paper cuts!"

"Papering them to Death" = more like SMOTHERING the opposing party w WEIGHT of motions, briefs, etc.

Then there's a phrase quantifying the volume of paper filling a BOX CAR or a FREIGHT CAR.

Seems those phrases are all applicable in this case.
To be fair, the DP has always been on the table so to speak... under a paper weight :D (ok I'll just see myself out of the thread).
 
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