4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #86

[schooling]

Exactly. And since you have people living on all 3 floors, even if you have one floor of people contained, the other two can react by other calling the police or by rushing in to help. It seems a bit hard to think that the killer, if he did know Murphy was there, just shrugged off the likelihood of him alerting others and those others actually taking action. If the killer did, he couldn't have predicted that the other roommates would react the way they actually did by hiding in their rooms, not calling 911, and not going to investigate until many hours later. The killer got lucky--what if Murphy had started barking the minute he entered the house, and one of the roomies had immediately called 911? Or Ethan had woken up fully and grabbed something heavy to use for defense and gone to investigate?

I suspect the killer didn't view the girls themselves as a potential physical threat. But what about Ethan? Argh, it all makes my brain ache trying to figure it out.

1) Killer stalking house & girls in advance--should know about Ethan and Ethan's car, so he would have known he was spending the night. Discounts him as a threat?? May or may not know about Kaylee and/or Murphy being there--if not aware, indicates the killer hadn't checked social media or done much observation of the house that very day. If doesn't know about Kaylee's new car, is taking a big gamble that the strange car he sees parked there as he's driving around isn't some guy in bed with one of the girls, because now you would have 2 guys in that house.
2) Killer not stalking or observing the house or girls in advance--you pick a random house that night, which just happens to luckily have all girls. Could easily have been a house of 5 guys. Could have multiple dogs. Could be gun owners. This option is just total insanity, beyond extreme levels of superiority complex, or someone who doesn't care if they die.
3) Killer stalking the house and girls in advance, knows Ethan, Kaylee, and Murphy are there.....and has such a god level of confidence, superiority, and estimation of skills/intelligence (but lower than that of option #2) that he sees them as no problem.

Or if you believe he targeted one person and encountered an unexpected 2nd person upstairs, and two on the way downstairs and out of the house.

It’s possible that he waited for the lights to go out and he thought he could sneak in, sneak out, and would never have to encounter Ethan. And that he didn’t expect there to be two girls upstairs because in the weeks prior there wasn’t.

Isn’t that the very definition of ‘hot stalking’ which Dateline insinuated (yes, I know the issues with insinuation but it’s more than we have and here we are speculating) that he had done before.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Thanks @Jurisprudence for posting this.
IDK why but the most interesting part of that article, to me, was that Taylor worked for 5 years in the Kootenai County prosecutor's office before going into private practice. My guess is she became DP qualified during those 5 years at the prosecutor's office. She switched from public service to private and back to public. Perhaps she feels time served as a prosecutor makes her a better public defender.

JMO

Yes, perhaps. I agree with @jepop though I don't think AT's resume is relevant at all actually. I read your post to think the same and I agree. This matter came up only bc it was stated she could make a lot of money in the private sector and I responded that she did do that. Then she went back to become chief. Apart from that I agree that her earning potential if she were to leave public sphere is wholly irrelevant.

jmo

 

[Sundog]

So true, he's keeping up the measured and professional responses. There was a firm response to the D's Response to Alibi Demand, namely a Motion to compel. That's a first for the state in this case and I can see why they've gone straight there. Moo

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/072723-Motion-to-Compel-Notice-of-Defense-Alibi-Alt-Bar-Certain-Evidence.pdf

The state has no choice, IMO, but to make it clear that they don't consider the defense's "alibi notice" a valid alibi notice as defined by Idaho Code. The state needs to make it clear that they do not consider it valid and that if the judge doesn't compel the defense to file a valid alibi notice according to the requirements as they see it as laid out in the Idaho Code, then the state is going to prohibit any alibi witnesses for the defense during the trial. The state wants to make sure that this is in writing and that the defense is given notice so that it is understood and on record. All important for later issues on appeal.

What did surprise me about the state's Motion to Compel Notice of Alibi Defense was the statement that if the defense does not offer what the state considers to be a valid alibi defense, then the state will ask the Court to prohibit the defense from presenting any evidence by direct OR CROSS EXAMINATION in support of any alibi defense. I don't see anything in the Idaho Code that prohibits the defense from cross examination of the state's witnesses in support of a defendant's alibi. Only that the defense cannot call alibi witnesses as evidence if they miss the deadline to file an alibi defense which would include names of witnesses for the defense.

Alternatively, the State prays for an order of this Court pursuant to Idaho Code § 19- 519( 4) prohibiting the Defendant from presenting any evidence, whether by direct or cross examination, in support of any claimed alibi other than from the Defendant himself.


IANAL, JMO
Bolded and underline BM

edited by me for clarity

 

[jepop]

The state has no choice, IMO, but to make it clear that they don't consider the defense's "alibi notice" a valid alibi notice as defined by Idaho Code. The state needs to make it clear that they do not consider it valid and that if the judge doesn't compel the defense to file a valid alibi notice according to the requirements as they see it as laid out in the Idaho Code, then the state is going to prohibit any alibi witnesses for the defense during the trial. The state wants to make sure that this is in writing and that the defense is given notice so that it is understood and on record. All important for later issues on appeal.

What did surprise me about the state's Motion to Compel Notice of Alibi Defense was the statement that if the defense does not offer what the state considers to be a valid alibi defense, then the state will ask the Court to prohibit the defense from presenting any evidence by direct OR CROSS EXAMINATION in support of any alibi defense. I don't see anything in the Idaho Code that prohibits the defense from cross examination of the state's witnesses in support of a defendant's alibi. Only that the defense cannot call alibi witnesses as evidence if they miss the deadline to file an alibi defense which would include names of witnesses for the defense.

Alternatively, the State prays for an order of this Court pursuant to Idaho Code § 19- 519( 4) prohibiting the Defendant from presenting any evidence, whether by direct or cross examination, in support of any claimed alibi other than from the Defendant himself.


IANAL, JMO
Bolded and underline BM

I think it's nuanced and the key phrase in the motion is probably' in support of any claimed alibi". Moo

ETA: because an alibi is quite specific - it relates to a claim he was somewhere else.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Bad Facts from
PCA and Court Documents.

The DNA was 5.37 octillion times more likely to be from Kohberger than another person from the general population, court documents reportedly show.

Witness at scene with description that does not exclude Kohberger.

Kohberger's DNA found on a knife sheath and the murders were committed with a knife.

Kohberger's specific DNA was found under a victim and her comforter.

Kohberger drives the same type of car as seen on surveillance video from that night specifically on King Rd.

Kohberger's phone was set so as not to be detected during time of crimes.

Kohberger was pinpointed within a half mile of King Rd and in Moscow 11 times before and after midnight and according to a local Moscow poster there isn't much open at those hours.

Kohberger's phone pings on cell towers showing him on the Idaho boarder that night and shows him going back and forth between Pullman and Moscow.

The car video dovetails with the ATT phone "trail."

No alibi that can be backed up with surveillance cameras, phone, witnesses, business videos, etc...I do not believe BK has an alibi because he did it.

2 Cents

Also from pca:

No front license plate
BK vehicle was registered in PA at the time which state does not have a front plate
Car re-registered 5 days later in the state of WA linking back to him
Phone linked to car via traffic stop
Phone linked to him via traffic stop
Both linked to the house via cellular data and video evidence

jmo

 

[10ofRods]

It will be very interesting to see how the Judge handles this alibi thing.

IMO.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Whenever I read the reports that he was running downstairs as the cops come in...I always wonder what he was running for. No, I don't think he was going to have a shootout with cops...

Who reported he was running downstairs? I saw reports they got him in his kitchen wearing gloves, separating trash into ziplock bags, armed with a flashlight, presumably to again dispose of it into the neighbor's bins? The warrant return of his person does indicate all of those things plus the clothes he was wearing at the time were seized, together with his DNA (#9).

jmo

https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/pdfs/20230228/185614-dec.29,2022-applicationforsearchwarrantandauthorization.pdf

 

[Jurisprudence]

MOO This MOTION TO COMPEL "NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI is good. State says defense didn't comply so we request the court order the defense to either tell us

" 1. The specific place or places at which the Defendant claims to have been at the time of the burglary and homicides in this case, and

2. The names and addresses of all witnesses upon whom the Defendant intends to rely to establish such alibi.

Or,

that the court limit his alibi to

" evidence [presented by] the Defendant himself.

All jmo

 

[al66pine]

To be fair, the DP has always been on the table so to speak... under a paper weight (ok I'll just see myself out of the thread).

@whiterhino
No, pls don't leave. Pull up a chair, stay and post.
More puns & wordplay coming up, but just as a break from ---actual analysis of various aspects of this case.

MANY THANKS to the knowledge & experience of our wonderful posters, the fabulously patient mods & administrators, and website owner @Tricia).

 

[gremlin444]

Or if you believe he targeted one person and encountered an unexpected 2nd person upstairs, and two on the way downstairs and out of the house.

It’s possible that he waited for the lights to go out and he thought he could sneak in, sneak out, and would never have to encounter Ethan. And that he didn’t expect there to be two girls upstairs because in the weeks prior there wasn’t.

Isn’t that the very definition of ‘hot stalking’ which Dateline insinuated (yes, I know the issues with insinuation but it’s more than we have and here we are speculating) that he had done before.

If he didn't expect Kaylee to be there and therefore didn't realize the unknown car was hers, he still had to have seen the "extra" vehicle there with all the times that he was circling that night. And that car could have been anyone--a guy spending the night with one of the girls, a sibling or friend from home of one of the girls visiting and sleeping in the living room or one of the girl's room. Heck, it could even be one of the girl's parents visiting. And yet he still decided to go ahead with his plan even though there is now an unknown person/factor.

I just can't decide if the killer's sense of superiority was so enormous that he saw none of these things as threats to his success or if the compulsion that night was so great that he had to do it at that time anyway even though he saw and knew the risks.

And it all ended up coming down to luck (both good and bad) in the end. If the sounds of Murphy and what DM thought was playing hadn't woken her up the first time, would DM have even woken up at all to the rest of voices/sounds as reported in the PCA or would she have continued to sleep right through them?

If he had plotted it out as targeting just Maddie, thought that DM was still living on the first floor, and waited until Kaylee had moved out....he would have had incredibly high chances of being able to go in. do his deed, and slip out undetected.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Didn't KG just recently move out?

What if BK saw posts about her moving out and deliberately waited for her and Murphy to be gone before going in?

Even if he saw her new car he could have thought she was in her own room but was surprised by her and thus more overkill towards her.

Maybe MM was the target and the other 3 were only killed because they were witnesses who would have immediately called 911.

But then why leave another witness alive - DM? She could have right away discovered her friends and called 911, he didn't know.

The hallway isn't huge so seems like he would have seen her but was afraid of getting caught and wanted to get out fast, thus, the video showing the car tearing out fast. Then maybe this is why he took those back roads - to circumvent LE because he was afraid the witness in the hallway was going to call 911.

Going back at 9:00am could have been to check and see if she had called 911.

2 Cents

I reckon he literally didn't see her.

We don't know what state he was in at that point but he could have had sweat dripping in his eyes and been sprayed in the eyes by all sorts of victim's body fluids not just the obvious one. He could have been quite badly hurt by one of the victims or hurt by his own efforts, he could have knocked his head and been stunned or been hit by something. Also, many people think he never set out to destroy four lives so much as there were more people than expected so he would have been exhausted by adrenaline and cortisol and all the issues. Plus if he had used some form of substance to 'enhance' his mood or energy then he'd have been chemically influenced.

Anyway, that's pretty much all my arguments as to why I genuinely believe he didn't see DM as opposed to decided not to take her too. He would have had to decide if it was better to flee than to attack her and wonder if maybe she could have someone in her room too (since both sets of other people were in couples). If he decided to flee knowing she saw him, then he'd have to get out real fast. Did she mention the manner in which he left or don't we know that yet?

JMO MOO

 

[wary]

I reckon he literally didn't see her.

We don't know what state he was in at that point but he could have had sweat dripping in his eyes and been sprayed in the eyes by all sorts of victim's body fluids not just the obvious one. He could have been quite badly hurt by one of the victims or hurt by his own efforts, he could have knocked his head and been stunned or been hit by something. Also, many people think he never set out to destroy four lives so much as there were more people than expected so he would have been exhausted by adrenaline and cortisol and all the issues. Plus if he had used some form of substance to 'enhance' his mood or energy then he'd have been chemically influenced.

Anyway, that's pretty much all my arguments as to why I genuinely believe he didn't see DM as opposed to decided not to take her too. He would have had to decide if it was better to flee than to attack her and wonder if maybe she could have someone in her room too (since both sets of other people were in couples). If he decided to flee knowing she saw him, then he'd have to get out real fast. Did she mention the manner in which he left or don't we know that yet?

JMO MOO

I assume that DM was motionless and silent. I think his head may have down to check his footing—there was a step down very near his door. That’s another reason he may not have seen her.

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

I assume that DM was motionless and silent. I think his head may have down to check his footing—there was a step down very near his door. That’s another reason he may not have seen her.

MOO

ITA. I think her bedroom light was off and she barely cracked open the door. BK was focused on getting to the kitchen.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Also from pca:

No front license plate
BK vehicle was registered in PA at the time which state does not have a front plate
Car re-registered 5 days later in the state of WA linking back to him
Phone linked to car via traffic stop
Phone linked to him via traffic stop
Both linked to the house via cellular data and video evidence

jmo

Linked to the house ?

 

[I'm Nobody]

Yes, perhaps. I agree with @jepop though I don't think AT's resume is relevant at all actually. I read your post to think the same and I agree. This matter came up only bc it was stated she could make a lot of money in the private sector and I responded that she did do that. Then she went back to become chief. Apart from that I agree that her earning potential if she were to leave public sphere is wholly irrelevant.

jmo

Agree @Jurisprudence Thank you. Got the money discussion later.
I'm not deliberately trying to be obtuse; I'll blame it on all these trips around the sun.

 

[Idaho transplant]

Have you ever been in a situation where, in retrospect, you mentally go back over the scenario, maybe to figure out how you could have handled things differently?

I suspect that BK relieves the day of the murders over and over and over in his mind. Perhaps not to relieve the murders themselves but to figure out how the Perfect Murder went haywire after the planning he put into it. I wonder if he lives more in the past than what he is facing in the future.

 

[schooling]

I know someone with VSS. They said that their peripheral is partially affected at night. They said that in their opinion it’s possible that BK did not see DM at all and was focused on what was in front of him.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I assume that DM was motionless and silent. I think his head may have down to check his footing—there was a step down very near his door. That’s another reason he may not have seen her.

MOO

ITA. I think her bedroom light was off and she barely cracked open the door. BK was focused on getting to the kitchen.

JMO

Definitely both of these issues too. I wonder if he suspected or wondered if there were more people in the house? If he'd had the house under surveillance / stalking, he must have surely known that there were usually multiple occupants in the first and second floors? It's a bold move to be potentially trapped inside a location like that.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I know someone with VSS. They said that their peripheral is partially affected at night. They said that in their opinion it’s possible that BK did not see DM at all and was focused on what was in front of him.

One would imagine that someone who struggles with this visual interference situation would not be best suited to creeping around people's homes in the small hours in the first place. It really does require a lot of leaps in my comprehension, not in any way suspecting BK is innocent just trying to imagine what he was thinking of, or not. It's quite a setback to know you're visually challenged in such a way, surely.

 

[Cool Cats]

Definitely both of these issues too. I wonder if he suspected or wondered if there were more people in the house? If he'd had the house under surveillance / stalking, he must have surely known that there were usually multiple occupants in the first and second floors? It's a bold move to be potentially trapped inside a location like that.

Cowardly and deranged to ambush folks in bed.

He had to know how to get in, that is the first order of business.

I believe he stalked the house on his early morning/late night forays and specifically checked the 2 accessable doors to see if they were left unlocked.

By going several times he could ascertain
that one of the doors was consistently left unlocked.

I believe this is what he did, even creeping into the house getting familiar with getting in and out quickly.

So that night he was confident he could pull up and walk right in but the doordash threw him and he kept circling around the block waiting for them to leave.

Strange he didn't just drive off and come another night when the students weren't up so late.

I think he was determined that it had to be that particular night for some reason. Could have to do with who was there or it was the night that was more convenient for him.

2 Cents