4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Oh he granted her order much to the chagrin of many. You have followed the case pretty closely. I'm surprised you aren't aware of this. I will cite you the docket because this is basically discussed round and round in every request, every response, and was ultimately argued. In the end the state won in at least being able to have the information protected. We've been talking for weeks on here about the suspicion that the tactic may be that she was fishing for their records to come up with material to discredit them. Happy reading.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Oh, I’ve followed the case quite closely.

I know two of the three officers the defense sought the training records for are ISP officers.

MOO, of course, but I would be surprised to learn that ISP would deploy rookie officers, as you stated, to Moscow to participate in such a high profile investigation.

Hence my request TIA for any specific info you can provide to establish that the training records sought were for “rookie officers.”

Edited to fix link I broke, SMH.

ETA 2: Non-paywalled link to Moscow-Pullman Daily News article linked above:
Judge grants Kohberger team access to training records

 

[m00c0w]

I see your point. You're right that we don't know where she's going yet. But I don't suspect it's to false testimony. I suspect she's citing Napue for the proposition that it doesn't matter if Idaho law finds the error harmless (or not germane on other grounds). She wants a fallback position that even harmless error under Idaho law does not dismiss or negate a (potential) violation of his federal constitutional rights.

AT has been saying for some time that the state has evidence that is exculpatory. The state kept asking again and again in it's early responses to her motions to compel for the defense to tell them what that evidence is bc to their knowledge there is nothing exculpatory.

So, to me, her filing is falling right along these same lines of argument that she's been making all along. Because of this I didn't find it alarming or surprising at all.

She cites Idaho Criminal Rule 6.1(b)(1)

The prosecuting attorney has the power and duty to: (1) present to the grand jury evidence of any public offense, however, when a prosecutor conducting a grand jury inquiry is personally aware of substantial evidence which directly negates the guilt of the subject of the investigation the prosecutor must present or otherwise disclose that evidence to the grand jury

In reading the state's replies, they didn't seem (to me) to be concerned about this. For this to be a real problem I think (as it clearly states above), (1) the evidence not disclosed must be substantial, (2) must directly negate the defendant's guilt, and (3) there has to have been personal knowledge and intent. Intent is required under Napue too as I read it.

It is interesting that she is so dead-on focused on this exculpatory evidence though and I am very curious to know exactly what it is.

jmo

This is exactly where I think she's going. By my understanding, she's been claiming the state has access to exculpatory alibi information, but also refuses to explicitly reveal what this exculpatory information is. She's now going to be using this very same alleged information to try and say the indictment was invalid because this exculpatory alibi material was not presented to the grand jury. I am very interested in what alibi BK may have other than "he was driving around alone, just trust us."

 

[SpiderFalcon]

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/082823-Order-Court-TV-Media-Request.pdf

 

[schooling]

This is exactly where I think she's going. By my understanding, she's been claiming the state has access to exculpatory alibi information, but also refuses to explicitly reveal what this exculpatory information is. She's now going to be using this very same alleged information to try and say the indictment was invalid because this exculpatory alibi material was not presented to the grand jury. I am very interested in what alibi BK may have other than "he was driving around alone, just trust us."

I'm going to guess that it's a total dud fishing expedition.

For the record...I don't believe any of this. But this is what I'm gathering from the diretion the filings have been going in.

So after the crime we can assume that LE's reviewed all of the video that was available to them. We also have to assume that the Elantra was present in the initial review of the videos. Yet LE focused on another car, a white Nissan Sentra, for weeks.

And the defense has heavily implied that the IGG process or something had LE switch their entire theory. Giving them tunnel vision on BK. Going as far as dropping hints that they belive LE changed their timeline to better fit BK. And called the FBI expert back in to go on record with the Elantra because that's what BK owned.

If you're right...I think the Defense wants to know what made the Elantra less attractive (or even initially cleared), and the Nissan Sentra more attractive initially in the investigation. Is there another Elantra on video? Is there evidence that the crime was committed at a time where a white Elantra was on video elsewhere? Or maybe its' something that we don't know.

Why do I think it's a dud? Because BK is 10000000% guilty IMO. That's his car. At the murder scene. At teh time of the murders. IMO. So it's impossible that whatever they are looking for is exculpatory.

All a theory of mine, of course.

 

[Boxer]

I'm going to guess that it's a total dud fishing expedition.

For the record...I don't believe any of this. But this is what I'm gathering from the diretion the filings have been going in.

So after the crime we can assume that LE's reviewed all of the video that was available to them. We also have to assume that the Elantra was present in the initial review of the videos. Yet LE focused on another car, a white Nissan Sentra, for weeks.

And the defense has heavily implied that the IGG process or something had LE switch their entire theory. Giving them tunnel vision on BK. Going as far as dropping hints that they belive LE changed their timeline to better fit BK. And called the FBI expert back in to go on record with the Elantra because that's what BK owned.

If you're right...I think the Defense wants to know what made the Elantra less attractive (or even initially cleared), and the Nissan Sentra more attractive initially in the investigation. Is there another Elantra on video? Is there evidence that the crime was committed at a time where a white Elantra was on video elsewhere? Or maybe its' something that we don't know.

Why do I think it's a dud? Because BK is 10000000% guilty IMO. That's his car. At the murder scene. At teh time of the murders. IMO. So it's impossible that whatever they are looking for is exculpatory.

All a theory of mine, of course.

He did a good job leaving little evidence, but he did leave evidence.

 

[schooling]

The Pervis Payne case is a great example of where "unknown male DNA" was found at a crime scene, but someone else was convicted and spent a very long time in prison, and was almost killed by the state. And I'm sure at the time of conviction and trial most people would have believed he was guilty, because the prosecutor didn't give the whole picture.

IMO cases like this (there are others) show why it's so darn important to push the evidence as far as it can possibly go. It took Payne 33 years on Death Row to gain access to the same type of information AT is currently pushing for (more info about the unknown samples, where they were, what testing was/wasn't done etc.).

Of course it doesn't mean BK is innocent, but it just gives some moral weight to efforts to force Latah County to be more open now, and not in 30 years time.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/defense-lawyers-say-dna-tests-point-to-unknown-male-as-likely-killer-in-tennessee-death-row-prisoner-pervis-paynes-case

The Pervis case is 35 years old. There was no DNA testing. No cameras or cell phones. It was largely an eye witness case against a mentally disabled African American man in a Southern State in the 1980s. And considering that African American men are far more likely to be found guilty (even more than now), face the death penalty and to be put on death row....this case was the perfect concoction for a wrongful conviction. There are dozens of other cases of African American men facing the same plight in the 70s, 80s post civil rights.

So what are the similarities or implications here? Because I don't see any...And there are other major non-race differences....

Pervis admits to being on the scene and touching the murder weapon. Which likely sealed his fate when combined with the shoddy eye witness testimony. 33 years later an unknown Male DNA profile was found on a specific part of the murder weapon (that a wielder would have held) that Pervis never claimed to touch. Pervis' DNA was instead found on a part of the murder weapon that matched his story perfectly. A story he told back when he didn't know the DNA existed. If DNA evidence existed and had been presented back then, a reasonable person could have arrived at a Not Guilty conclusion. They might have even used IGG to find the other male DNA profile before the sample degraded.

In the Moscow case BK does not appear to be putting himself at the scene. He was 'driving around'. And unless he takes the stand he's going to leave it up to a reasonable person to make an illogical leap to explain how his DNA ended up on the sheath. Because like his defense attorney says "he has no connection to the victims. And the 3 unknown profiles we are talking about were not found on the murder weapon (or a part of it.). We know this becasue the PCA tells us it's BK and his alone.

Lastly, Pervis' prosecutors didn't turn over the evidence even after they knew DNA had gone mainstream. They went out of their way to prevent it's discovery. Prosecutors in Moscow did not hide the fact that they found 3 other profiles, they are simply stating it doesn't meet the criteria for further investigation. Rules/Guidelines/Precedent that has survived hundreds (if not thousands) of court cases and likely existed far before this case. But people as privileged as BK can sit back, challenge norms that others are being found guilty under and have people be outraged on their behalf.

BK should pull every lever available to him and deserves due process...But these two cases are world's apart.

 

[m00c0w]

The Pervis case is 35 years old. There was no DNA testing. No cameras or cell phones. It was largely an eye witness case against a mentally disabled African American man in a Southern State in the 1980s. And considering that African American men are far more likely to be found guilty (even more than now), face the death penalty and to be put on death row....this case was the perfect concoction for a wrongful conviction. There are dozens of other cases of African American men facing the same plight in the 70s, 80s post civil rights.

So what are the similarities or implications here? Because I don't see any...And there are other major non-race differences....

Pervis admits to being on the scene and touching the murder weapon. Which likely sealed his fate when combined with the shoddy eye witness testimony. 33 years later an unknown Male DNA profile was found on a specific part of the murder weapon (that a wielder would have held) that Pervis never claimed to touch. Pervis' DNA was instead found on a part of the murder weapon that matched his story perfectly. A story he told back when he didn't know the DNA existed. If DNA evidence existed and had been presented back then, a reasonable person could have arrived at a Not Guilty conclusion. They might have even used IGG to find the other male DNA profile before the sample degraded.

In the Moscow case BK does not appear to be putting himself at the scene. He was 'driving around'. And unless he takes the stand he's going to leave it up to a reasonable person to make an illogical leap to explain how his DNA ended up on the sheath. Because like his defense attorney says "he has no connection to the victims. And the 3 unknown profiles we are talking about were not found on the murder weapon (or a part of it.). We know this becasue the PCA tells us it's BK and his alone.

Lastly, Pervis' prosecutors didn't turn over the evidence even after they knew DNA had gone mainstream. They went out of their way to prevent it's discovery. Prosecutors in Moscow did not hide the fact that they found 3 other profiles, they are simply stating it doesn't meet the criteria for further investigation. Rules/Guidelines/Precedent that has survived hundreds (if not thousands) of court cases and likely existed far before this case. But people as privileged as BK can sit back, challenge norms that others are being found guilty under and have people be outraged on their behalf.

BK should pull every lever available to him and deserves due process...But these two cases are world's apart.

I see a lot of folks here and other places speculating that maybe the sheath just happened to be touched by BK at some point and it was this other clever person that was really responsible. In order for that to happen, we're venturing on Scott Peterson levels of unluckiest-man-on-earth-style-coincidences that have police looking at his make and model of vehicle a week and a half after the murders, cell tower data puts him in the same area as the murders at the time of the murders, his description matches the eyewitness description, his DNA was left on a sheath that held the murder weapon... and those are just the more flagrant things. The folks that want to proclaim his innocence seem to focus only on one aspect of the case and ignore the other half dozen things that occurred simultaneously that would probably win a case without the one thing anyway.

"All they have is some touch DNA and touch DNA is notoriously unreliable!" is a common theme. I guess this means the defense is doing a pretty decent job at smoke and mirrors...

MOO

 

[NextSprint]

The Pervis case is 35 years old. There was no DNA testing. No cameras or cell phones. It was largely an eye witness case against a mentally disabled African American man in a Southern State in the 1980s. And considering that African American men are far more likely to be found guilty (even more than now), face the death penalty and to be put on death row....this case was the perfect concoction for a wrongful conviction. There are dozens of other cases of African American men facing the same plight in the 70s, 80s post civil rights.

So what are the similarities or implications here? Because I don't see any...And there are other major non-race differences....

Pervis admits to being on the scene and touching the murder weapon. Which likely sealed his fate when combined with the shoddy eye witness testimony. 33 years later an unknown Male DNA profile was found on a specific part of the murder weapon (that a wielder would have held) that Pervis never claimed to touch. Pervis' DNA was instead found on a part of the murder weapon that matched his story perfectly. A story he told back when he didn't know the DNA existed. If DNA evidence existed and had been presented back then, a reasonable person could have arrived at a Not Guilty conclusion. They might have even used IGG to find the other male DNA profile before the sample degraded.

In the Moscow case BK does not appear to be putting himself at the scene. He was 'driving around'. And unless he takes the stand he's going to leave it up to a reasonable person to make an illogical leap to explain how his DNA ended up on the sheath. Because like his defense attorney says "he has no connection to the victims. And the 3 unknown profiles we are talking about were not found on the murder weapon (or a part of it.). We know this becasue the PCA tells us it's BK and his alone.

Lastly, Pervis' prosecutors didn't turn over the evidence even after they knew DNA had gone mainstream. They went out of their way to prevent it's discovery. Prosecutors in Moscow did not hide the fact that they found 3 other profiles, they are simply stating it doesn't meet the criteria for further investigation. Rules/Guidelines/Precedent that has survived hundreds (if not thousands) of court cases and likely existed far before this case. But people as privileged as BK can sit back, challenge norms that others are being found guilty under and have people be outraged on their behalf.

BK should pull every lever available to him and deserves due process...But these two cases are world's apart.

I didn’t say they were the same.

They’re similar enough to support my point:

1. The state fought tooth and nail to even consider other possible perpetrators even when DNA testing became available;
2. The state knowingly withheld evidence at the time of trial that could have cast doubt on the defence’s case.

Has the same ever happened to a white man SINCE DNA testing became available? Yes of course it has. This is about prosecutorial zeal, and that case simply proves that it’s possible.

This happens over and over in the US system that promotes the personal interests of prosecutors (need to be re-elected).

 

[10ofRods]

I'm going to guess that it's a total dud fishing expedition.

For the record...I don't believe any of this. But this is what I'm gathering from the diretion the filings have been going in.

So after the crime we can assume that LE's reviewed all of the video that was available to them. We also have to assume that the Elantra was present in the initial review of the videos. Yet LE focused on another car, a white Nissan Sentra, for weeks.

And the defense has heavily implied that the IGG process or something had LE switch their entire theory. Giving them tunnel vision on BK. Going as far as dropping hints that they belive LE changed their timeline to better fit BK. And called the FBI expert back in to go on record with the Elantra because that's what BK owned.

If you're right...I think the Defense wants to know what made the Elantra less attractive (or even initially cleared), and the Nissan Sentra more attractive initially in the investigation. Is there another Elantra on video? Is there evidence that the crime was committed at a time where a white Elantra was on video elsewhere? Or maybe its' something that we don't know.

Why do I think it's a dud? Because BK is 10000000% guilty IMO. That's his car. At the murder scene. At teh time of the murders. IMO. So it's impossible that whatever they are looking for is exculpatory.

All a theory of mine, of course.

Source for it being a white Nissan Sentra for "weeks"? (I trust you - no hurry, but...that's not my memory). We had bulletins in SoCal for a White Elantra (year was off but right model car). White Elantras were reported/pulled over in three states. I don't know the dates, but I know that the Nissan never appeared on our radar here in California.

So I'd like a source for a widespread search for a Nissan. When did that bulletin go out? The call for Moscow residents to produce surveillance video went out around Nov 21. No car mentioned at that point in time. On November 30, another call for surveillance video went out (no mention of car model). A red Mustang is mentioned around this time.

I can't find any Moscow PD bulletins/updates that mention a Nissan - can you help? Here's the website:

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Just as there was a mention of red Mustang (probably from early surveillance video, submitted by neighbors and possibly corresponding to DoorDash - although that's not clear, either, there COULD be a mention of a Nissan - but was there? And how could have been looked for, for "weeks"? I'm up to Nov 30 and there's no Nissan that I can find.

HELP.

All I can find is that on Dec 7, stock photos of a White Elantra are posted by Moscow PD. The murders were in mid-November - no car at all is mentioned until after Nov 30, as far as I can tell (except the red Mustang). It was on blast on SM (the Elantra) and that went on until the arrest, IMO.

For reference, the very detailed and extensive update by Moscow PD on December 6, mentions no car at all (no Nissan can I find in any bulletin so far), but on Dec 7, the white Elantra makes its appearance at the presser (each update had a presser, IIRC).

Kohberger is arrested weeks later - and from Dec 7 onward, I don't see any mention of any car but an Elantra. I don't see how it's possible that a Nissan is mentioned for "weeks."

Anyone can weigh in - I would love to have other eyes on this issue.

IMO.

 

[Megnut]

Source for it being a white Nissan Sentra for "weeks"? (I trust you - no hurry, but...that's not my memory). We had bulletins in SoCal for a White Elantra (year was off but right model car). White Elantras were reported/pulled over in three states. I don't know the dates, but I know that the Nissan never appeared on our radar here in California.

So I'd like a source for a widespread search for a Nissan. When did that bulletin go out? The call for Moscow residents to produce surveillance video went out around Nov 21. No car mentioned at that point in time. On November 30, another call for surveillance video went out (no mention of car model). A red Mustang is mentioned around this time.

I can't find any Moscow PD bulletins/updates that mention a Nissan - can you help? Here's the website:

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Just as there was a mention of red Mustang (probably from early surveillance video, submitted by neighbors and possibly corresponding to DoorDash - although that's not clear, either, there COULD be a mention of a Nissan - but was there? And how could have been looked for, for "weeks"? I'm up to Nov 30 and there's no Nissan that I can find.

HELP.

All I can find is that on Dec 7, stock photos of a White Elantra are posted by Moscow PD. The murders were in mid-November - no car at all is mentioned until after Nov 30, as far as I can tell (except the red Mustang). It was on blast on SM (the Elantra) and that went on until the arrest, IMO.

For reference, the very detailed and extensive update by Moscow PD on December 6, mentions no car at all (no Nissan can I find in any bulletin so far), but on Dec 7, the white Elantra makes its appearance at the presser (each update had a presser, IIRC).

Kohberger is arrested weeks later - and from Dec 7 onward, I don't see any mention of any car but an Elantra. I don't see how it's possible that a Nissan is mentioned for "weeks."

Anyone can weigh in - I would love to have other eyes on this issue.

IMO.

Is it possible that the Nissan references all come to us by way of Defense motions and chatter? And that LE's work product included a search for a Nissan Sentra? Which you my untrained, uncarred mind looks virtually identical to the Hyundai Elantra. So LE was never looking for two cars, just one car mis-identified at first. And now the Defense is creating noise, implying that LE made BK's car and BK himself bend. I can't find a way that works in their favor but I think this is the petrol they're smelling.

IMO there member was a Nissan Sentra....

And the biggest clue, post sheath DNA, was the identification of a Hyundai Elantra in the WSU parking lot, from which BK was named, outed to LE. Of note, this driver-arounder apparently never called to LE to say he was driving about in response to LE's out call for the occupant(s) of such a vehicle to come forward. Heavens to murgatroyd, BK must've about driven over the murderer.... maybe that's how his DNA peanut butter got in the other guy's chocolate.

Guessing that's all there is to this. LE was looking for a Sentra until someone realized the Elantra is a doppel. They probably share a father back at the factory.

No evidence forced to fit a crime, no hidden discovery, no rush to judgment, no tunnel vision.

Just work product. The more they knew, the more they knew.

JMO

 

[kittythehare]

Source for it being a white Nissan Sentra for "weeks"? (I trust you - no hurry, but...that's not my memory). We had bulletins in SoCal for a White Elantra (year was off but right model car). White Elantras were reported/pulled over in three states. I don't know the dates, but I know that the Nissan never appeared on our radar here in California.

So I'd like a source for a widespread search for a Nissan. When did that bulletin go out? The call for Moscow residents to produce surveillance video went out around Nov 21. No car mentioned at that point in time. On November 30, another call for surveillance video went out (no mention of car model). A red Mustang is mentioned around this time.

I can't find any Moscow PD bulletins/updates that mention a Nissan - can you help? Here's the website:

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Just as there was a mention of red Mustang (probably from early surveillance video, submitted by neighbors and possibly corresponding to DoorDash - although that's not clear, either, there COULD be a mention of a Nissan - but was there? And how could have been looked for, for "weeks"? I'm up to Nov 30 and there's no Nissan that I can find.

HELP.

All I can find is that on Dec 7, stock photos of a White Elantra are posted by Moscow PD. The murders were in mid-November - no car at all is mentioned until after Nov 30, as far as I can tell (except the red Mustang). It was on blast on SM (the Elantra) and that went on until the arrest, IMO.

For reference, the very detailed and extensive update by Moscow PD on December 6, mentions no car at all (no Nissan can I find in any bulletin so far), but on Dec 7, the white Elantra makes its appearance at the presser (each update had a presser, IIRC).

Kohberger is arrested weeks later - and from Dec 7 onward, I don't see any mention of any car but an Elantra. I don't see how it's possible that a Nissan is mentioned for "weeks."

Anyone can weigh in - I would love to have other eyes on this issue.

IMO.

That is my memory too.

 

[wendy44]

I could be wrong but I think the idea of a white Sentra came from the New York Times article by Mike Baker. He wrote in that article that records show investigators in the early weeks were looking for a 2019-2023 Sentra. I've always wondered if there was some sort of confusion with Sentra and Elantra being similar in spelling and sound.

 

[kittythehare]

I didn’t say they were the same.

They’re similar enough to support my point:

1. The state fought tooth and nail to even consider other possible perpetrators even when DNA testing became available;
2. The state knowingly withheld evidence at the time of trial that could have cast doubt on the defence’s case.

Has the same ever happened to a white man SINCE DNA testing became available? Yes of course it has. This is about prosecutorial zeal, and that case simply proves that it’s possible.

This happens over and over in the US system that promotes the personal interests of prosecutors (need to be re-elected).

Whoa!
The US justice system is probably the best in the world.
I am not a US citizen, nor do I live there.
I do take a very close interest, however.

 

[schooling]

Source for it being a white Nissan Sentra for "weeks"? (I trust you - no hurry, but...that's not my memory). We had bulletins in SoCal for a White Elantra (year was off but right model car). White Elantras were reported/pulled over in three states. I don't know the dates, but I know that the Nissan never appeared on our radar here in California.

So I'd like a source for a widespread search for a Nissan. When did that bulletin go out? The call for Moscow residents to produce surveillance video went out around Nov 21. No car mentioned at that point in time. On November 30, another call for surveillance video went out (no mention of car model). A red Mustang is mentioned around this time.

I can't find any Moscow PD bulletins/updates that mention a Nissan - can you help? Here's the website:

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Just as there was a mention of red Mustang (probably from early surveillance video, submitted by neighbors and possibly corresponding to DoorDash - although that's not clear, either, there COULD be a mention of a Nissan - but was there? And how could have been looked for, for "weeks"? I'm up to Nov 30 and there's no Nissan that I can find.

HELP.

All I can find is that on Dec 7, stock photos of a White Elantra are posted by Moscow PD. The murders were in mid-November - no car at all is mentioned until after Nov 30, as far as I can tell (except the red Mustang). It was on blast on SM (the Elantra) and that went on until the arrest, IMO.

For reference, the very detailed and extensive update by Moscow PD on December 6, mentions no car at all (no Nissan can I find in any bulletin so far), but on Dec 7, the white Elantra makes its appearance at the presser (each update had a presser, IIRC).

Kohberger is arrested weeks later - and from Dec 7 onward, I don't see any mention of any car but an Elantra. I don't see how it's possible that a Nissan is mentioned for "weeks."

Anyone can weigh in - I would love to have other eyes on this issue.

IMO.

I credited it to a defense filing but I unwittingly merged NYTimes reporting and defense filings (that only cite another unknown car at a completely different time as the focus of the investigation), not specifically the Sentra model.

A week after the killings, records show, investigators were on the lookout for a certain type of vehicle: Nissan Sentras from the model years 2019 to 2023. Quietly, they ran down details on thousands of such vehicles, including the owners’ addresses, license plate numbers and the color of each sedan.

But further scrutiny of the video footage produced more clarity, and on Nov. 25 the police in Moscow asked law enforcement agencies to look for a different type of car with a similar shape: white Hyundai Elantras from the model years 2011 to 2013.

Inside the Hunt for the Idaho Killer (Published 2023)

After four students were stabbed to death in a house near a college campus, investigators scooped up data and forensic evidence, hoping for leads. A new DNA technique finally brought a breakthrough.

www.nytimes.com

Again, I don't believe in any of it but this seems like the road that defense is going down. As they seem insistent that LE sharply pivoted and they are pretending that they don't know why.

 

[m00c0w]

I credited it to a defense filing but I unwittingly merged NYTimes reporting and defense filings that only cite another car, not specifically the Sentra model.

Inside the Hunt for the Idaho Killer (Published 2023)

After four students were stabbed to death in a house near a college campus, investigators scooped up data and forensic evidence, hoping for leads. A new DNA technique finally brought a breakthrough.

www.nytimes.com

Again, I don't believe in any of it but this seems like the road that defense is going down. As they seem insistent that LE sharply pivoted and they are pretending that they don't know why.

I'm not sure in what world the defense can sell that Moscow had IGG results in a week and a half and used those to start planting seeds that ultimately led to the set-up and arrest of BK. It was 12 days between the murders and the BOLO for the Elantra according to the NYT article. The IGG wasn't completed until mid-December. How are they going to wave away those inconvenient facts?

JMO

 

[kittythehare]

I see a lot of folks here and other places speculating that maybe the sheath just happened to be touched by BK at some point and it was this other clever person that was really responsible. In order for that to happen, we're venturing on Scott Peterson levels of unluckiest-man-on-earth-style-coincidences that have police looking at his make and model of vehicle a week and a half after the murders, cell tower data puts him in the same area as the murders at the time of the murders, his description matches the eyewitness description, his DNA was left on a sheath that held the murder weapon... and those are just the more flagrant things. The folks that want to proclaim his innocence seem to focus only on one aspect of the case and ignore the other half dozen things that occurred simultaneously that would probably win a case without the one thing anyway.

"All they have is some touch DNA and touch DNA is notoriously unreliable!" is a common theme. I guess this means the defense is doing a pretty decent job at smoke and mirrors...

MOO

I tend not to pay them too much attention in most cases.
i don't have much patience for them.
They invariably lose in the end .

 

[schooling]

I didn’t say they were the same.

They’re similar enough to support my point:

1. The state fought tooth and nail to even consider other possible perpetrators even when DNA testing became available;
2. The state knowingly withheld evidence at the time of trial that could have cast doubt on the defence’s case.

Has the same ever happened to a white man SINCE DNA testing became available? Yes of course it has. This is about prosecutorial zeal, and that case simply proves that it’s possible.

This happens over and over in the US system that promotes the personal interests of prosecutors (need to be re-elected).

I said what I said about the case you cited. It's not the same. None of your points resonate with me. Particularly the "SINCE DNA" and the claims that the justice system is equal for all. You're the only one that reads that particular case as race agnostic. 5 seconds of Googling would erode that argument.

Like citing a recipe and saying it has nothing to do with food.

Also, prosecutorial zeal is a broad and wide ranging issue. Using your example there are tens of thousands of cases that are comparable.

Moving on. Thank you

 

[schooling]

I'm not sure in what world the defense can sell that Moscow had IGG results in a week and a half and used those to start planting seeds that ultimately led to the set-up and arrest of BK. It was 12 days between the murders and the BOLO for the Elantra according to the NYT article. The IGG wasn't completed until mid-December. How are they going to wave away those inconvenient facts?

JMO

They are not going to be able to.

IMO. But reading the filings it looks like this is going to be their argument.

 

[jepop]

I could be wrong but I think the idea of a white Sentra came from the New York Times article by Mike Baker. He wrote in that article that records show investigators in the early weeks were looking for a 2019-2023 Sentra. I've always wondered if there was some sort of confusion with Sentra and Elantra being similar in spelling and sound.

RBBM last sentence: It could either be that or alternately just completely normal investigative practice (if assuming Baker's information is correct) Moo. ie - what follows is my conjecture - a very normal process of narrowing down car model through analysis of video footage as it came in and was processed. Based on lack of any evidence to the contrary, I envisage professional people working with what they had, with that changing over the days - a working hypothesis - which is not (nor should be) set in concrete. At some early point one can conjecture (if the word sentra is not a typo for elantra) the analysis ruled out sentra and ruled in elantra as the model.Moo.

edited spelling

 

[NextSprint]

Whoa!
The US justice system is probably the best in the world.
I am not a US citizen, nor do I live there.
I do take a very close interest, however.

I think just on the metric of false convictions, it is not. No justice system is perfect of course.