4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[ktm44]

The


The disrespectful and disregarding of the victims' families requests are mind boggling.

We seek justice, because the victims can not. WOJ

Which families do you assume to have more rights and what would be the purpose of hanging onto the house indefinately since neither the defence or prosecution feel it's suitable for a jury walk through?

Because one family member likes to share with the media, does that mean he deserves more sympathy or could it also be said that he lacks empathy for Ethan's siblings that have to look at the house their brother died in every day. Their mother said it was making it very difficult for them to move forward.

Rather than demand someone to hang onto an unsafe building and pay taxes and security on it until the families are ready to let go, it could also be said that the families could have made an offer to buy the home. I"m sure the money could have raised quickly through crowd funding and then they could control the property as they saw fit.

My apologies, I didn't realize the crowd funding site mentioned would be censored

 

[TL4S]

If you look at the house from an outside perspective, there is an important question to be answered if the suspect and the victims did not know each other.

If the current suspect, Bryan Kohberger, is the murderer, why did he choose the house at 1122 King Road in Moscow, Idaho? Kohberger was living across the border in Washington going to Washington State University at the time of the murders.

My guess is he chose it after driving to the University of Idaho and walking around the apartment area nearby. He saw that the house had easy access inside from the back where he might also be able to park his car. It was often thought early on in the case that the killer might be a neighbor from one of the apartments very close to the house. Kohberger had to find a place to park his car while he committed these crimes. If he planned this crime, he probably planned on where he was going to park too.

Why and how did Bryan Kohberger choose the house at 1122 King Road in Moscow, Idaho? By looking at the size of the house from the outside or the number of vehicles in the parking lot, he had to wonder if there were multiple people living there.

I might be in the minority, but I think it's quite possible he found his target(s) online before he even went to school in WA. The house was simply a tactical obstacle he had to do physical surveillance on where he couldn't see via SM.

I'd be curious to know which other schools he applied to programs at, if any...

 

[somequestions]

I might be in the minority, but I think it's quite possible he found his target(s) online before he even went to school in WA. The house was simply a tactical obstacle he had to do physical surveillance on where he couldn't see via SM.

I'd be curious to know which other schools he applied to programs at, if any...

That is a possibility, but seeing something in person to get a feeling of the layout of the area is something that is difficult to do from google maps. Going to the house in person would be much more useful for the planning aspect of the crime.

The dog is interesting in this case for that reason. We have to remember that two of the victims in this case were visiting at the time, Ethan Chapin and Kaylee Goncalves. If Kaylee brought her dog to visit and the dog had not been there during Kohberger's planning phase which probably did not start until August 2022, he might not have known about the dog. If he had known about the dog or saw it outside, he might have decided on a different house. I wonder if Kohberger was only expecting 4 people and not 6.

I think the reason the prosecution went ahead with the demolition is that they probably feel they have a good case against Bryan Kohberger, and it seems like they do. But if he is the killer, understanding why and how Kohberger did what he did is still important.

 

[al66pine]

Families' Atty's Advice? If Given, Maybe Ignored?

@gremlin444 posted in part:
"I understand family members' grief. But I really really wish someone from the prosecution would sit down with them and explain the rules regarding jury visits."

@ktm poster, in part:
"We don't know that it hasn't been done and if their own lawyer hasn't mentioned it, he's part of the problem and not the solution. "

Title on my post says it. Well, pretty much.

The stmt in X /Twitter bears names Goncalves & Kernodle, but not clear imo who authored the stmt and if all 3 (or 4?) of those parents -
- reviewed it pre-publication.
- approved it.
- received legal advice on the specific content and if so, who advised. Was it from Shanon Grey and/or other atty? Did SG or other atty advise publishing the stmt, criticizing, imo, LE & prosecutor, who are, after all, working to convict BK, and saying trial judge's rulings are slow, etc.

If some or all the above victims' parents sought & received legal advice on proposed stmt on X, I doubt that they got an unconditional confirmation. jmo IDK ICBWrong.

Maybe these families are like some health care patients & families given excellent medical advice but do not follow suggested treatment and turn to "alternative medicine" or other approaches? IDK.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I think the reason the prosecution went ahead with the demolition is that they probably feel they have a good case against Bryan Kohberger, and it seems like they do. But if he is the killer, understanding why and how Kohberger did what he did is still important.

If the prosecution didn't think they had a good case, that house still standing would not have helped them at trial. It had no further use as evidence and there is no precedence for forcing a property owner to take on the burden of preserving a crime scene, especially when the defense and prosecutor did not object to it being demolished.
Understanding the why is not anything the prosecutor has to know or is required to prove to the jury. "How" can be recreated with many tools.

 

[TL4S]

That is a possibility, but seeing something in person to get a feeling of the layout of the area is something that is difficult to do from google maps. Going to the house in person would be much more useful for the planning aspect of the crime.

The dog is interesting in this case for that reason. We have to remember that two of the victims in this case were visiting at the time, Ethan Chapin and Kaylee Goncalves. If Kaylee brought her dog to visit and the dog had not been there during Kohberger's planning phase which probably did not start until August 2022, he might not have known about the dog. If he had known about the dog or saw it outside, he might have decided on a different house. I wonder if Kohberger was only expecting 4 people and not 6.

I think the reason the prosecution went ahead with the demolition is that they probably feel they have a good case against Bryan Kohberger, and it seems like they do. But if he is the killer, understanding why and how Kohberger did what he did is still important.

The dog is interesting and I wish we knew more about who put him in that room and if he barked. I'm of the mindset that BK stalked either one or more of the victims, as well as that household, both online and in person, over enough time to have a good working knowledge of the comings and goings. IMO, he knew about Murphy (at least before KG moved out), and I'd wager he knew EC spent the night with XK sometimes. Depending on his level of online stalking, if he was doing this, he might have even known about KG's new vehicle, and that she was in Moscow that day. These were victims who posted a lot of their lives on SM, and who lived in a house that happened to be easy to surveil.

What's interesting to me is that the PCA begins in the early morning hours of Nov. 13, but BK's attorney said BK was driving around late-night on the 12th through early morning on the 13th. Why give that additional information unless getting ahead of probable evidence we've yet to hear about? Where was his phone late-night on the 12th, and was it on? Is there any footage of him in Moscow during that time? Did his phone show he was active on SM during that time? These are just questions I have about the late-night of the 12th.

Honestly, I think BK was on a mission and prepared to do whatever he needed to do. If he killed upstairs first, and the dog was going wild, people were yelling from downstairs, etc., why didn't he just go out the window, off the balcony and drive away? Instead, he went down the stairs and dealt with whatever he had to complete his mission. I don't think things went the way he planned, but nothing seemed to stop him, either. No matter what he walked in expecting to find, he seemed to have been okay with entering a home likely filled with multiple people, because that was the night he wanted to carry it out. JMO.

 

[DizzyB]

@Observe_dont_Absorb
It's a classic: the dog that didn't bark in the night. Except this one did, but apparently, only at the exact time the murders were taking place, and then never made a sound again until the police arrived. Which is odd. I agree with you that I would have expected that dog to not remain silent afterwards for eight hours.
I would add to what you listed, that the dog would probably have been aware of the smell of blood in the house, much earlier and more intensely than the surviving roommates. Poor Murphy.

The dog is interesting and I wish we knew more about who put him in that room and if he barked. I'm of the mindset that BK stalked either one or more of the victims, as well as that household, both online and in person, over enough time to have a good working knowledge of the comings and goings. IMO, he knew about Murphy (at least before KG moved out), and I'd wager he knew EC spent the night with XK sometimes. Depending on his level of online stalking, if he was doing this, he might have even known about KG's new vehicle, and that she was in Moscow that day. These were victims who posted a lot of their lives on SM, and who lived in a house that happened to be easy to surveil.

What's interesting to me is that the PCA begins in the early morning hours of Nov. 13, but BK's attorney said BK was driving around late-night on the 12th through early morning on the 13th. Why give that additional information unless getting ahead of probable evidence we've yet to hear about? Where was his phone late-night on the 12th, and was it on? Is there any footage of him in Moscow during that time? Did his phone show he was active on SM during that time? These are just questions I have about the late-night of the 12th.

Honestly, I think BK was on a mission and prepared to do whatever he needed to do. If he killed upstairs first, and the dog was going wild, people were yelling from downstairs, etc., why didn't he just go out the window, off the balcony and drive away? Instead, he went down the stairs and dealt with whatever he had to complete his mission. I don't think things went the way he planned, but nothing seemed to stop him, either. No matter what he walked in expecting to find, he seemed to have been okay with entering a home likely filled with multiple people, because that was the night he wanted to carry it out. JMO.

So many Murphy questions. For a young dog, he seemed to be mostly silent and did not require frequent walks-maybe he was puppy pad trained. I was surprised that he was released so quickly after, I watch too much CSI. I expected that he should be analyzed for blood and DNA before he was picked up by an owner. My feeling at the time was that he must have been crated in KG’s former room before, during and after. LE must have determined that quickly, right?

 

[TL4S]

So many Murphy questions. For a young dog, he seemed to be mostly silent and did not require frequent walks-maybe he was puppy pad trained. I was surprised that he was released so quickly after, I watch too much CSI. I expected that he should be analyzed for blood and DNA before he was picked up by an owner. My feeling at the time was that he must have been crated in KG’s former room before, during and after. LE must have determined that quickly, right?

Way early on, I recall seeing it in MSM that Murphy was found locked in the other upstairs bedroom (K's room) and LE said he had not entered or contaminated the crime scene itself. I would also like to know if he was crated or just loose in the room, but like you said, shouldn't he have been tested for DNA in case the killer had touched him?

 

[LAhiker]

Thanks for sharing the live feed. For me, it was very satisfying to watch that awful house disappear and be hauled away.
May the healing begin!

Healing occurs on its own time. That said, I think what is really likely to help the families is if/when the prosecution obtains a conviction.

JMO

 

[Cindizzi]

https://x.com/angenette5/status/1740462518819307617?s=61&t=Vp-AZ81ShrhzLNqqCFHAgA

 

[maskedwoman]

If the prosecution didn't think they had a good case, that house still standing would not have helped them at trial. It had no further use as evidence and there is no precedence for forcing a property owner to take on the burden of preserving a crime scene, especially when the defense and prosecutor did not object to it being demolished.
Understanding the why is not anything the prosecutor has to know or is required to prove to the jury. "How" can be recreated with many tools.

I agree 100%. I am confident LE knows pretty well how BK did what he did, meaning what happened inside the house. Forensics will have told them a great deal. But the grisly details are on the very long list of things we won't know until trial. Some we will never know. As for why, even if motive were required, I firmly believe nothing about the house itself would explain why BK did what he did. MOOooo

 

[Diddian]

What attic? The roof was flat. Both sections. And photos of the outside and interior and the house plans from the renovation ten or fifteen years ago (whenever it was, I've blanked on the exact year) would show that.

Any last minute remembrances on the stand, years after the event, are unlikely to hold much water, especially if they are in contradiction with statements made in the aftermath. I expect that in a trial of this magnitude, the attorneys will have prepared their witnesses and their case well.

MOO

The third floor had a sloped roof.

I recall mention of an opening to the attic above the short section of hall at top of stairs and at that time speculated that someone could have entered the home earlier while all the roommates were away from the home, hid there, and come out (close to where the opening to MM's room was) once they believed everyone in the home was asleep. So, there must have been some space up there.

Here is a link to my post back then:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

Who? A YouTuber who inserts herself into cases for views. imo

www.websleuths.com

Of course that speculation was before all was known about the white Hyundai's movements and timing.

ETA: Photo of house showing that both the 2nd and 3rd floors were single sloped roofs with a peak at one edge is in this article:

Floor plans reveal layout of house where killer knifed University of Idaho students to death: report

The 2,300 square feet home that also has three bedrooms was rented in June for $2,498 per month.

nypost.com

 

[Charlot123]

Re: the house

Wasn't the house was cleaned post forensics?
The P, D, Faro scanners, Chief, LE have all entered the house without protective gear.

Even walking through with walls missing, furniture gone and floor missing would be beneficial to experience the layout, tightness, angles, sounds walking through, distances etc.

Jurors could also do an outside walk to get a first hand experience with the topography around the house, the viewpoints into the house from every angle, how far the street is from the house, the sounds outside, what it looks like at night, lighting etc. They could probably do that without the house present, but I think that would be better with the house.

ALL JMO

Hopefully, I’ll never be on a jury, but I am not a 3-d person. Unless I see how it looks, feels and hears inside, I can’t reconstruct a scene in my head. If I were on that jury and not let inside the house, I’d ask to be excused. If the house were nonexistent, I’d ask for the explanation as good and logical as the Texas prosecution offered in Kaitlin Armstrong’s case, but I doubt that Idaho has such a clear-cut case on their hands. JMO.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Thompson's email to University of Idaho

 

[al66pine]

Condition of 1122 King Road?

Re: the house
Wasn't the house was cleaned post forensics?
The P, D, Faro scanners, Chief, LE have all entered the house without protective gear....
ALL JMO

snipped for focus @Nila Aella
"P, D, Faro scanners, Chief, LE" entering 1122 King w/out protective gear? Good question.

Typically the very first LEO's at crime scene do not enter all "suited up." Later when the tech evidence personnel enter, typically they enter w coverall type suits, which are partly to PROTECT the CRIME SCENE from them, that is, to prevent the scene from being "contaminated" by their spreading their own skin & hair cells, DNA there.

In this case, I think ^that's^ what we saw in news pix & vid's.

Later there was much more DESTRUCTIVE -to -the-building evidence collection, like flooring, wall, appliance dismantling, tearing apart & partial removal. During that process which stirs up particulate matters such as asbestos, lead, silica, gypsum,& other toxins, the protective gear worn includes special coveralls & masks, designed to PROTECT them from the CRIME SCENE, iiuc.
I do not recall seeing pix or vid's of these workers entering or exiting 1122 King but was fuzzy on the time frame to search.

By the time those destructive steps were taken, I believe the private owner had already transferred title to the Uni, which may have immed.'ly decided not to restore the bldg for any use but would demolish it.
If so, Uni. would not have contracted for the expensive, time consuming process of actually removing all the asbestos & other toxins to comply w exacting standards of federal law.*

Calling "Merry Maids" or ServPro would not have been sufficient to allow jurors to enter.

IDK if any or all the various officials listed in OP did enter or if they wore any special protective gear.

I just read that some ppl entered 1122 King in Oct, but I did not catch pix of who they were or how long they stayed.

jmo

@@Nila Aella. Thank you very much for all the technical legal expertise you've brought to this case. And for your patience in answering dozens of questions.
______________________________
* See Health Hazards
https://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-toxic-substances-control-act

Drywall mechanic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Asbestos and the law (United States) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Re the dog, I think about this a lot. He was probably crated in KG's vacated room (she had packed up and removed all personal items and bedding IIRC, hence one reason why she slept in MM's room). Probably with puppy pads underneath him for toilet accidents.

Now I don't know at what point in time that dog got removed by either housemates or LE but by the time of it, approx late morning the next day at the earliest, he would have been losing his mind.

He had probably never spent such a prolonged period alone in his entire little doggy life, used to being surrounded by countless people and passed between numerous caregivers. He would have been barking, yelping, crying, howling, and pleading for attention.

As far as a dog is concerned, it's either make a lot of noise, break your way out, or die. They don't know someone's coming or not. It's the end of the world. He would have been lonely, anxious, hungry, and needing the toilet / having soiled the crate at the very least. If he wasn't crated, he'd have been clawing and biting at the door desperately trying to break out.

In the room directly above DM? That's what I don't get and until there's an explanation I will never comprehend this aspect.

JMO MOO

 

[Kemug]

We don't know that it hasn't been done and if their own lawyer hasn't mentioned it, he's part of the problem and not the solution. .

SG mentioned something in one of his recent interviews about relating the house to an important time in his daughter's life and his need to keep her memory alive. This feels to me like it has less to do with a jury walk through, potential new evidence or anything else cited and a lot more to do with him just not being emotionally ready to let go of one aspect of her life.

Poor Mr. Goncalves, he seems to be a very emotional man, and perhaps is finding it more difficult than the other parents to even begin to recover from such an awful tragedy. And it seems to me that in his extreme pain and grief, he is often angry, and lashing out at the world. So I am not surprised that he didn't want the house demolished. Nevertheless, it may help him to heal a little eventually. I hope it does.

 

[10ofRods]

The


The disrespectful and disregarding of the victims' families requests are mind boggling.

We seek justice, because the victims can not. WOJ

The families do not all agree. There are four of them.

IMO. That's why we have courts of Justice. If someone had raised funds (all the internet people who want the house to remain because SG wants it to remain), then it could have been purchased.

The families are *not* all on the same page. Ethan's family in particular has had different views.

IMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

Condition of 1122 King Road?

snipped for focus @Nila Aella
"P, D, Faro scanners, Chief, LE" entering 1122 King w/out protective gear? Good question.

Typically the very first LEO's at crime scene do not enter all "suited up." Later when the tech evidence personnel enter, typically they enter w coverall type suits, which are partly to PROTECT the CRIME SCENE from them, that is, to prevent the scene from being "contaminated" by their spreading their own skin & hair cells, DNA there.

In this case, I think ^that's^ what we saw in news pix & vid's.

Later there was much more DESTRUCTIVE -to -the-building evidence collection, like flooring, wall, appliance dismantling, tearing apart & partial removal. During that process which stirs up particulate matters such as asbestos, lead, silica, gypsum,& other toxins, the protective gear worn includes special coveralls & masks, designed to PROTECT them from the CRIME SCENE, iiuc.
I do not recall seeing pix or vid's of these workers entering or exiting 1122 King but was fuzzy on the time frame to search.

By the time those destructive steps were taken, I believe the private owner had already transferred title to the Uni, which may have immed.'ly decided not to restore the bldg for any use but would demolish it.
If so, Uni. would not have contracted for the expensive, time consuming process of actually removing all the asbestos & other toxins to comply w exacting standards of federal law.*

Calling "Merry Maids" or ServPro would not have been sufficient to allow jurors to enter.

IDK if any or all the various officials listed in OP did enter or if they wore any special protective gear.

I just read that some ppl entered 1122 King in Oct, but I did not catch pix of who they were or how long they stayed.

jmo

@@Nila Aella. Thank you very much for all the technical legal expertise you've brought to this case. And for your patience in answering dozens of questions.
______________________________
* See Health Hazards
https://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-toxic-substances-control-act

Drywall mechanic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Asbestos and the law (United States) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Chief and Company removing personal items: Dec 7 2022
House cleaned June 27th by Disaster Response team: MOO b/c can't find the photo anywhere but FN which isn't allowed here.
The second faro scan: End of October 2 hours (this was done post removal of items/floor/walls)
Prosecution Visit
The Defense visit over 2 days
The second Prosecution Visit: Dec 21 2023 2 hours

It is possible they suited up after entering and desuited before exiting. The Faro scan does show people inside not suited. I have read some comments in the press about asbestos. I watched a bit of the demolition today and did not see any precautions that are normally taken when asbestos is present. MOO

Perhaps there were health hazards present, IMO they were exaggerated. The other arguments for demolition were stronger. JMO

JMO MOO

Asbestos demolition

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjT4YyGtbODAxVxGFkFHRwgDvsQFnoECBIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.epa.gov%2Flarge-scale-residential-demolition%2Fasbestos-containing-materials-acm-and-demolition&usg=AOvVaw2zQFuvCwgEoMCnZS4_39mN&opi=89978449

Chief/LE visit to remove personal items Dec 2022

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj58ty_oLODAxX_EmIAHcdfAL4QFnoECA4QAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-11512399%2FIdaho-cops-prepare-box-personal-items-four-slain-college-students.html%23%3A~%3Atext%3DChief%2520Fry%2520explained%2520why%2520he%2Ctheir%2520healing%252C%27%2520said%2520Fry.&usg=AOvVaw2Ex-54q8mgG1qINyVse5yc&opi=89978449

Faro Scan end of October (video)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiwhd6CqLODAxVBFFkFHU7DC6oQFnoECCkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.krem.com%2Farticle%2Fnews%2Fcrime%2Funiversity-of-idaho-students-killed%2Ffbi-at-king-road-house-tuesday-and-wednesday%2F293-6d9ec8b9-7643-4064-bf10-480b2ae84277&usg=AOvVaw1FFBoUqOJWlBIA_M5UEaXq&opi=89978449

Pros in home 2 hours/defense visited over 2 days

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjKq_rGqrODAxXCEmIAHZBgBPgQFnoECCUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.khq.com%2Fnews%2Fahead-of-demolition-prosecutors-visit-king-road-home%2Farticle_a0c9c92c-a078-11ee-85d5-7f9374aaef81.html&usg=AOvVaw1YBTCuvRas5VZV86uIJw2X&opi=89978449

Video Pros exiting Dec 21

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiKlrrRq7ODAxWwFlkFHbq2ABcQtwJ6BAgKEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DK_yf4mcwNj8&usg=AOvVaw3HSkdvT4199HP8I0EM0syJ&opi=89978449

 

[AnyNameIWish]

If someone had raised funds (all the internet people who want the house to remain because SG wants it to remain), then it could have been purchased.

There was never talk of the university offering it for sale or a fundraiser effort to purchase the property, as I recall.. no g f moi or anything of the like. Too little too late on that one, and I would imagine SG has the funds to purchase the property if offered, it wasn't valued at an exorbitant amount.

I still think this was a terrible move by the university, saving its social reputation and it has so much clout within the entire town (the town runs on the economy of the students and the uni itself) that they decided how it was going to go.