4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #94

[Megnut]

This exchange keeps nagging me.

AT is questioning Detective Payne --

AT: are you testifying that Mr. Kohberger did not use Hwy 95 South of Moscow...?

Investigator Payne: I am testifying there are various routes a a person could take....

He goes on to point out that the PC route is a possible route and the map indicates that (in the heading)

Is that a slip on AT's part? She doesn't slip often.... but she failed to say allege.... or the Elantra... or the Elantra the State alleges Mr. Kohberger is driving....

Payne is quick to answer with a person...

So IMO she either wanted to get Payne to commit to that being the Gospel route (so she could park BK somewhere else or claim it couldn't have been him there so -- big jump -- he's innocent) OR she slipped, acknowledging that it is his Elantra with him in it, either on 95 or not. Her question contains her assumption it's him! Assumption = concession!

What say everybody else?

23:30ff

 

[Cool Cats]

This exchange keeps nagging me.

AT is questioning Detective Payne --

AT: are you testifying that Mr. Kohberger did not use Hwy 95 South of Moscow...?

Investigator Payne: I am testifying there are various routes a a person could take....

He goes on to point out that the PC route is a possible route and the map indicates that (in the heading)

Is that a slip on AT's part? She doesn't slip often.... but she failed to say allege.... or the Elantra... or the Elantra the State alleges Mr. Kohberger is driving....

Payne is quick to answer with a person...

So IMO she either wanted to get Payne to commit to that being the Gospel route (so she could park BK somewhere else or claim it couldn't have been him there so -- big jump -- he's innocent) OR she slipped, acknowledging that it is his Elantra with him in it, either on 95 or not. Her question contains her assumption it's him! Assumption = concession!

What say everybody else?

23:30ff

She is deliberately trying to lock him down into admitting that the evidence shows BK did not use Hwy 95 South of Moscow so then it will look like he is lying in front of the jury if he says something different.

2 Cents.

 

[Boxer]

RBBM

I think that's a good explanation.

Of course, if the cell phone was turned off, which is what I personally suspect, it's just more fishing &/or spaghetti throwing by the defense, MOO.

I do puzzle over why he had his phone with him that night if the attack was planned. Personally, I keep going back to the heavy police presence near his apartment complex in the earlier hours & wonder if that unsettled him so he just forgot to leave his cell phone at home? He then realized his mistake at some point & just simply shut it off, MOO.

Seems possible to me, but that's just my sheer speculation.

Yes! Fishing for spaghetti.

 

[wendy44]

Cellphone expert testifies missing data benefits University of Idaho murder suspect

Sy Ray, a cellphone tower analyst, said at an evidence hearing that what he has seen so far appears to be "exculpatory" to Bryan Kohberger, although that could change.

www.nbcnews.com

What he has seen so far, he said, appears to be "exculpatory" to Kohberger.

If this is true, it seems like it would be data placing him elsewhere so why was this not used for his alibi defense?

 

[Megnut]

Cellphone expert testifies missing data benefits University of Idaho murder suspect

Sy Ray, a cellphone tower analyst, said at an evidence hearing that what he has seen so far appears to be "exculpatory" to Bryan Kohberger, although that could change.

www.nbcnews.com

What he has seen so far, he said, appears to be "exculpatory" to Kohberger.

If this is true, it seems like it would be data placing him elsewhere so why was this not used for his alibi defense?

It blew up right in front of her.

If there's a stretch of 95 where BK's Elantra isn't, then how can you trust anything the prosecution is saying. Or somesuch.

But Payne didn't commit to 95. Said it's a possible one, one of various.

I'll give AT this: when her attempts fail, she doesn't skip a beat, she moves on -- which is a clever disguise for defeat.

As slicktalker Sy talks about 82% missing data points, think back to 7th grade math. How many points do you need to make a line? Two. To map a route, you do need points, but you don't need every point in the line!

All the businesses without cameras. All the businesses whose cameras overwrote. All thewere malfunctioned. malfunctioned. All the DOT cameras that captured but never recorded (because they don't), all the websites who screengrabbed off DOT but missed the relevant timestamps.

There's not going to be a MOVIE of BK's drive from Pullman to Moscow and back again, but there will be compelling clips requiring reasonable inferences to fill in the blanks.

AT is trying hard to make those blanks mean something.

They just mean there's no cctv there.

JMO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Cellphone expert testifies missing data benefits University of Idaho murder suspect

Sy Ray, a cellphone tower analyst, said at an evidence hearing that what he has seen so far appears to be "exculpatory" to Bryan Kohberger, although that could change.

www.nbcnews.com

What he has seen so far, he said, appears to be "exculpatory" to Kohberger.

If this is true, it seems like it would be data placing him elsewhere so why was this not used for his alibi defense?

Thanks for the input and clarification. Wonder if that is exculpatory evidence for the suspect or for his phone? MOO

 

[Megnut]

I wonder.... if any of the abnormalities with BK's cellphone data can be explained by a faraday bag. Guess what else Amazon sells.

Jmo

 

[whiterhino]

I wonder.... if any of the abnormalities with BK's cellphone data can be explained by a faraday bag. Guess what else Amazon sells.

Jmo

JMO I wouldn't trust a Faraday bag if I were planning to murder someone out of state. I'd probably leave it at home knowing it would be inactive either way and safer to keep it where I spend most of my time (depending on my alibi).

 

[Megnut]

JMO I wouldn't trust a Faraday bag if I were planning to murder someone out of state. I'd probably leave it at home knowing it would be inactive either way and safer to keep it where I spend most of my time (depending on my alibi).

No doubt.

But for some reason he brought his along....

Now it may be the case that he left it somewhere and then retrieved it.

It's possible he turned it off, removed the SIM card or who knows what.

It's possible he put it into airplane mode and thought he was in the clear.

It's possible that subsequent data came back... satellite tracking that will further nail his tail to the wall.

Lots of terabytes sitting on AT's desk.

JMO

 

[Balthazar]

This exchange keeps nagging me.

AT is questioning Detective Payne --

AT: are you testifying that Mr. Kohberger did not use Hwy 95 South of Moscow...?

Investigator Payne: I am testifying there are various routes a a person could take....

He goes on to point out that the PC route is a possible route and the map indicates that (in the heading)

Is that a slip on AT's part? She doesn't slip often.... but she failed to say allege.... or the Elantra... or the Elantra the State alleges Mr. Kohberger is driving....

Payne is quick to answer with a person...

So IMO she either wanted to get Payne to commit to that being the Gospel route (so she could park BK somewhere else or claim it couldn't have been him there so -- big jump -- he's innocent) OR she slipped, acknowledging that it is his Elantra with him in it, either on 95 or not. Her question contains her assumption it's him! Assumption = concession!

What say everybody else?

23:30ff

Throughout the hearings with Mowery and Payne, AT was attempting to get the witnesses to commit to certain aspects of the case so they could not change their testimony later.

JMO.

 

[Sor Juana]

Of course, if the cell phone was turned off, which is what I personally suspect, it's just more fishing &/or spaghetti throwing by the defense, MOO.

I do puzzle over why he had his phone with him that night if the attack was planned. Personally, I keep going back to the heavy police presence near his apartment complex in the earlier hours & wonder if that unsettled him so he just forgot to leave his cell phone at home? He then realized his mistake at some point & just simply shut it off, MOO.

RSBM. There’s definitely something unusual about BK’s phone data. It’s possible that his phone was left far from the victims' house or that he was messing with the GPS and settings. BK's defence team has phone records showing his GPS location as somewhere else. While this doesn’t necessarily mean those readings are accurate or truthful, they are technical enough to be used in court. Hopefully, the case will require more solid evidence proving that BK was physically present at the stated locations, not just relying on these phone readings.

 

[Sor Juana]

And paraphrasing from above…… maybe what the data demonstrates is that:
….. “secured a cell phone data expert who will allegedly show that Kohberger’s phone was nowhere near the house in Moscow, Idaho where four college students were killed on the night in question”

RSBM. It really depends on the type of data they have. Logs from some apps can be unreliable because they don’t use true GPS for location. For instance, Facebook can show you as being at a place you're viewing on the app, even if you’re actually somewhere else. This became obvious during COVID lockdowns when people in the UK, confined to their homes, appeared in Facebook logs as if they were at restaurants somewhere in Portugal, for example.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

RSBM. There’s definitely something unusual about BK’s phone data. It’s possible that his phone was left far from the victims' house or that he was messing with the GPS and settings. BK's defence team has phone records showing his GPS location as somewhere else. While this doesn’t necessarily mean those readings are accurate or truthful, they are technical enough to be used in court. Hopefully, the case will require more solid evidence proving that BK was physically present at the stated locations, not just relying on these phone readings.

RBBM

The defense will perhaps try to make that claim at trial, but absent proof, I’m putting it in the same category as the defense demanding notes & recordings of Det. Payne interviewing BK it knows don’t exist.

MOO & YMMV

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Thank you.

People don't understand how trials work.
Lawyers can't tell the jury theories and guesses and maybes.....

WITHOUT EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP.

Also,

If BK touched a snap in the store the killer would have also touched the snap and that is not what happened.

BK's DNA is single source DNA.

2 Cents

Anyone who followed a recent political trial heard a lot of talk from the defense but they put on only two witnesses and neither of them refuted any of the documentary evidence presented by the prosectution. The defense can attack the evidence through these hearings, hoping to influence the jury pool or get lucky enough to have some evidence item ruled inadmissible. But once they're in court, they have to either put up evidence, however feeble, or rest their case

 

[Cool Cats]

Anyone who followed a recent political trial heard a lot of talk from the defense but they put on only two witnesses and neither of them refuted any of the documentary evidence presented by the prosectution. The defense can attack the evidence through these hearings, hoping to influence the jury pool or get lucky enough to have some evidence item ruled inadmissible. But once they're in court, they have to either put up evidence, however feeble, or rest their case

The defense cross-examines the prosecution witnesses and may or may not call their own witnesses or only call a couple witnesses.

Prosecutors need to prove their case, while the defense only has to show there’s reasonable doubt their client committed a crime. And defense lawyers don’t necessarily need to call different witnesses to knock holes in a prosecutor’s case.

The burden is on the prosecution, and it’s a high burden.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for the input and clarification. Wonder if that is exculpatory evidence for the suspect or for his phone? MOO

Suspect. Phone is exempt from jail

 

[snooptroop88]

I'm uncertain of my memory, but didn't we learn early on that BK ordered the knife from Amazon (or in any case online)?

So in a physical store would have bought only the sheath? (Assuming this isn't the sheath that originally came with this knife)

MOO

NewsNation/May 2023: "According to Dateline, Kohberger reportedly bought a KA-BAR knife and sheath in April 2022 from Amazon before he moved to Pullman, Washington, to attend university."

Kohberger allegedly broke into female colleague’s home

Bryan Kohberger has been charged in a separate with killing four University of Idaho students.

www.newsnationnow.com

From CourtTv/Sept 2023: "Investigators served one of the search warrants to Amazon on May 10, and said there was reason to believe that activity on the site from March 20-30, 2022 and Nov. 1-Dec. 6, 2022, may hold clues to the murders. The warrant specified 'all detailed customer click activity pertaining to knives and accessories'..."

Amazon warrant reveals search for knives linked to Bryan Kohberger

Newly released search warrants indicate that investigators were digging into Bryan Kohberger's purchases and social media activity.

www.courttv.com

I still find this point a little "iffy" and wish I could find it more widely confirmed. They were reporting this back in May 2023 shortly after the warrant to Amazon was served. Does anyone know if this is an absolute definite on this Amazon purchase of the knife?

 

[sunshineray]

I agree with you here. The defense should be able to scrutinize all of the IGG information. BK has family members who live in the Western United States.

In addition, there is another possibility that needs to be ruled out. I came across this fascinating article about Dopplegangers - people who are unrelated but identical in appearance AND shared many genetic variants.

"The team found that people who look very similar are also very similar genetically, says Esteller. Comparing the 16 pairs of true look-alikes with 16 other pairs photographed by Brunelle that hadn’t been scored as look-alikes by all three algorithms, the researchers found that true look-alikes shared more genetic variants with each other than did the 16 less similar pairs. However, the true look-alike pairs differed when it came to patterns of gene expression and bacterial communities. “The differences we see between look-alikes are more due to the epigenetics and the microbiome,” he says."

"“The elegant experiment described in the paper . . . shows that look-alike individuals share more genetic variants than randomly-selected individuals.”"

Doppelgängers Similar in Looks and DNA: Study

Look-alikes are also more likely to share lifestyle traits.

www.the-scientist.com

Is there the possibility that there is someone out there who is genetically similar to BK, either a family member or a Doppelgänger? There's no way to know without the IGG being completely and totally scrutinized.

Isn't one person saying someone looks like someone else a very subjective thing in itself? I know many times where I've said, wow that person looks like so and so to have the person I'm saying it to reply, no they don't...and vice versa.

 

[jepop]

I'm one of those who chooses to believe the PCA is basically accurate, because I have read nothing convincing in court docs or heard anything convincing in hearings to indicate otherwise. Also these recent hearings were meant to be about Motions to Compel, not part of trial. But hats off to BK's defense for kicking off trial by media and a nice big boat load of innuenedo and media speculation. AT definately knows what she is doing. Moo

I don't think BK left his phone anywhere else: It stops responding to network in south east Pullman at about 2.50am and SV1 is travelling down Indian Hills east of 1122 at about 3.26am as per camera capture. SV 1 is BK in his elantra (moo). If he took an off main road route to get to Indian Hills then I believe it was to the north of Moscow Pullman highway and imo he didn't leave his phone somewhere on that route because after the murders he exits at Palouse south and there is no time to return to the north of moscow to pick up a phone (for eg hidden at some marked spot just off road). He's approx 20 mins south of crime scene when phone reconnects to network at aprox 4.50am. I suppose it is possible he hid the phone off of Indian Hills somewhere but imo there was no way for him to go fetch after the crime without being on camera at intersection of Palouse and Hwy 95 (business cams galore). And in fact ditto if he's returning north to get the phone (not witstanding the time issue). Moo

Also if him leaving his phone is meant to have been some attempt at creating an alibi as some speculate, then why was phone still not responding to network for those two hours? Kind of defeats the purpose of using phone in that way doesn't it? Is east Moscow on Indian Hills known as an area regularly without coverage or for that matter areas just north of Moscow but not
exactly out in the sticks? There was no time for BK to head very far out of residential areas prior to turning up on Indian Hills Drive imo. And even less time afterwards, to still be pinging off Blaine towers or whatever at 4.48am whilst moving in a southernly direction, before heading west then north again back to Pullman via Johnston Road. And note that there is apparently no loss of coverage during this homeward journey (per pca).

And the above is simply based on the earliest calculations by CAST experts before Kohberherg's phone was taken and forensically analysed. I do speculate that since the PCA additonal evidence and phone forensics have probably nailed down BK's locations per PCA prior to and after the 4am to 4.20am crime timeline more accurately if anything. Moo

SY Ray's take, seriously who knows? With attempted exposure of non existent State shenanigans being a major motivator for defense wanting the hearing open (moo), and if not that then getting a bunch of innuendo out to the public, whose to really say. JMO.

Imo BK's phone did not suddenly lose coverage in Pullman at c2.47am and then suddenly reconnect 20 mins south of Moscow at c4.48am. Kohberger is very likley to have switched it off, driven in some off road type route to Indian Hills which took just over 30mins, proceeded to 1122,committed quadruple homicide, exited at Palouse and taken some route south before turning phone back on at c 448am. Moo If Sy RAy can locate a turned off phone all joy to him. Moo

Eta and if Sy Ray does locate turned off phone then that will be fantastic for the State imo, and achieve what the earliest geo fence warrants (within half a mile of 1122 King Road) could not. jmo

 

[Justice101]

RSBM. There’s definitely something unusual about BK’s phone data. It’s possible that his phone was left far from the victims' house or that he was messing with the GPS and settings. BK's defence team has phone records showing his GPS location as somewhere else. While this doesn’t necessarily mean those readings are accurate or truthful, they are technical enough to be used in court. Hopefully, the case will require more solid evidence proving that BK was physically present at the stated locations, not just relying on these phone readings.

What if BK turned his phone back on and left it somewhere sitting still outdoors before he went to the house?