4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #94

[SortaSleuthy]

I just want to add that after 40 years of interviewing criminals (in jails, prisons and state hospitals for the mentally insane) that we can never underestimate the extreme deviance of some people's minds.

There are often fixed delusions. Personality disorders. Memory problems that either mimic dementia or are disassociative (BK mentions two disassociative symptoms in his TapATalk posts).

Fear of getting caught is most prominent within certain personality disorders. The number of unfathomable decisions made by this group of people has always floored me, intrigued me. Serial rapists who, remanded to a state hospital for the criminally insane, still think that some or most of what they did was "normal." And indeed, in my years of research since then, it's true that many non-criminal men feel entitled to ignore "no" from a woman.

Did BK fear getting caught? I'm on the fence. He has had a certain kind of self-loathing since his teens. He might not think he's fit for this world. He may have wanted to accomplish a certain experience after moving to Pullman, and it evolved into this. IMO, rage was involved.

But controlled and depersonalized rage. And possibly a desire to die/be contained; to kill/to avenge life's pointlessness.

IMO.

10, you did it again! Your knowledge, experience and insight make you the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) on Reddit. I’m soooo glad you are here!

 

[Balthazar]

Who gave Sy Ray the data/evidence that he analyzed? Isn't that the job of the defense since he is their expert witness?

Cellphone expert testifies missing data benefits University of Idaho murder suspect

Sy Ray, a cellphone tower analyst, said at an evidence hearing that what he has seen so far appears to be "exculpatory" to Bryan Kohberger, although that could change.

www.nbcnews.com

The evidence came from the prosecution to the defense and apparently some of the pages are missing. However, IMO, the prosecution should do whatever it takes to get those pages and take full advantage of Sy Ray and really find out exactly where BK was that night. Sy Ray is not beholden to anyone - he works pro bono on all of these court cases and he normally works for LE and the prosecution. This is the first and only time Sy Ray has worked for the defense and he was crystal clear that if the evidence points away from exonerating BK, he will say so.

 

[GRT]

If Sy Ray finds that BK's cellphone is moving around West and South of Moscow that night, then how do you propose it is getting around unless it was in BK's possession?

Do you remember? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but at the time BK was arrested, it was reported (I think) that he asked if he was the only one arrested.

What if there was someone else involved? Someone who drove the phone around while BK did the killing?

I don't think that happened, but I thought it was an odd comment for BK to make when he was arrested unless someone else was involved. Then, after a while, I just put it down to nervousness.

Your post brought that back to me, but I can't swear it's the truth. It could have been misreported.

 

[GRT]

The evidence came from the prosecution to the defense and apparently some of the pages are missing. However, IMO, the prosecution should do whatever it takes to get those pages and take full advantage of Sy Ray and really find out exactly where BK was that night. Sy Ray is not beholden to anyone - he works pro bono on all of these court cases and he normally works for LE and the prosecution. This is the first and only time Sy Ray has worked for the defense and he was crystal clear that if the evidence points away from exonerating BK, he will say so.

It is odd that Ray is working for the Defense but it's also good to know that he will be forthcoming if the evidence points to BK.

At this point, I think it behooves the Prosecution to dig deep and come up with any additional cellphone data (the part that's still missing) and also any videos in the areas the Defense is asking for. Ray claims what he has now is exculpatory, but he also admits what's missing could be damning to BK.

I researched Ray, too, to an extent a couple of weeks ago, and he has a stellar reputation for the most part. He had a run-in with a Colorado judge, but eventually, that judge was shown to be in error.

But then there's the DNA evidence that will be hard to overcome.

 

[10ofRods]

His spring semester would have been in Pennsylvania living with his parents. He was fired from his teaching position.

University Investigated Idaho Murder Suspect’s Behavior Around Time of Killings (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger had a verbal altercation with a professor and was investigated over his behavior around female students before he was charged in four murders.

www.nytimes.com

I've always wondered if his dad pondered why his son seemed to be taking most of his personal effects back home. IIRC, the apartment didn't contain a lot of personal stuff - although it did have some sort of computer left behind, again, going on memory. The TV box stayed, but it was probably specific to the provider in Pullman.

And as to how it was for BK, living at home, his TapATalk posts mention physical altercations with his father (whom he describes as a good person and undeserving of his attacks), and there is that incident of him stealing his sister's cell phone and then selling it (I believe this was during his heroin phase). I'm not sure his home life was ever cozy or close. Dad does the right thing and turns him in for the cell phone theft. If it is true that BK was in inpatient treatment for an eating disorder (he suddenly loses lots of weight), that's indicative of anxiety or compulsions/obsessions.

Bryan Kohberger Treated For Eating Disorder After Massive Weight Loss Years Before University of Idaho Murders

Bryan Kohberger also needed to have a tummy tuck to deal with excess skin after his weight loss, according to two friends.

www.insideedition.com

I still think about the fact that the investigation into Kohberger's altercations with his professor and his treatment of women was launched right around the time of the murders. He had to consider he might be going back to PA. He seemed very proud of his position at WSU and would have been very angry about his issues there, I would think. Indeed, he may have felt defeated altogether in his quest to live a normal, productive life. Even if he wasn't formally notified yet, he knew about the altercations at the very least. It seems he had no friends and probably did not confide in his family members about much of anything, trying to maintain a positive image with them. If indeed his mind was filled with plans to murder or fantasies about murder (or murder and rape), he must have been on edge all the time, trying to appear normal.

At any rate, he won't have to go back to PA or his family home any time soon.

IMO.

 

[Megnut]

Do you remember? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but at the time BK was arrested, it was reported (I think) that he asked if he was the only one arrested.

What if there was someone else involved? Someone who drove the phone around while BK did the killing?

I don't think that happened, but I thought it was an odd comment for BK to make when he was arrested unless someone else was involved. Then, after a while, I just put it down to nervousness.

Your post brought that back to me, but I can't swear it's the truth. It could have been misreported.

Brian Entin seems to be the reporting source for that statement.

Everything Bryan Kohberger has said about Idaho murders

In a statement on January 1, Kohberger's public defender said that his client "is eager to be exonerated."

www.newsweek.com

 

[Megnut]

I think BK acted alone and I think it because I don't think he plays well with others. He leaves women feeling uncomfortable, students disrespected. He doesn't wait for an invitation....

It would sure be something though -- considering his dad tried to make a bid for him to develop a friendship -- awkward at the park if at age 12, downright sad/weird at grad school housing while pushing 30 -- if BK managed to actually MAKE A FRIEND bonding over whatever led to murder/murders.

Can you imagine though if BK found someone, anyone -- like a doordash person (just not THE doordash person) -- to drive his phone all over hill and dale for two hours?

Except he didn't.

Here's the magic I think AT is trying to pull from a hat:

A CAST report is very detailed. It identifies passive and active events, ones which require an inputer and ones which occur due to internal actions, scheduled updates for instance. It'll tell when the screen activated, whether the phone moved from landscape to portrait, etc. (Info I learned from the Murdaugh trial.)

There's ping technology and there's GPS. Tower and satellite. There's data generated from the carrier and data generated from the user.

Let's say ping data puts BK's phone in an overbroad location. You could draw a circle or maybe an arc and, even thought he was ACTUALLY only in ONE place in that zone, POTENTIALLY he could have been in ANY ONE of them.

Now consider that it was a VERY high traffic weekend, and while BK's phone was on and working nominally, it is POSSIBLE that his phone wasn't connecting always with the nearest tower, and that might impact where his phone appeared to be. IMO it might look like he was closer to a tower only because his phone utilized it, not because he was near it.

Now compare that to satellite. Geolocation true to form will put his phone in a very tight spot.

If you have savvy and the desire to confuse, you marry all those bits into a nonsensical bit that makes it look like BK's phone is bouncing all over places so that, if it also looks suspiciously like it was in Moscow near 1122, you can say that's just bouncy too. It's all so bouncy let's disregard it altogether. Oh, and for a while, it didn't bounce at all, not because it was OFF (or in airplane mode) but because it was in a wooded park without cellphone coverage.

If AT can get Sy to testify at trial (after first convincing the judge to allow this confusing exercise) to say coverage was bouncing off multiple towers so it can't be trusted, there's her win.

The State can and will overcome that because the State's expert will be clear and credible IMO -- and there's still HIS DNA AT THE CRIME SCENE so their case is solid.

It's a high bar AT has to reach to get Sy in as an expert. It has to rise to the level of exculpatorial. It can't be just to confuse!!!!

This is how I see and understand it. As a lay person with zero understanding of how cellphones work.

JMHO

 

[GRT]

Brian Entin seems to be the reporting source for that statement.

Everything Bryan Kohberger has said about Idaho murders

In a statement on January 1, Kohberger's public defender said that his client "is eager to be exonerated."

www.newsweek.com

Thanks, I couldn't find it but I thought I'd heard it. It was an odd thing to say.

 

[ilovewings]

The evidence came from the prosecution to the defense and apparently some of the pages are missing. However, IMO, the prosecution should do whatever it takes to get those pages and take full advantage of Sy Ray and really find out exactly where BK was that night. Sy Ray is not beholden to anyone - he works pro bono on all of these court cases and he normally works for LE and the prosecution. This is the first and only time Sy Ray has worked for the defense and he was crystal clear that if the evidence points away from exonerating BK, he will say so.

I don't believe it is the prosecutor's job to find out where BK was that night: it is the defense's job to provide an alibi!!! the prosecution of course has data they will use to attempt to disprove whatever alibi the defense puts forth!

 

[NCWatcher]

I don't believe it is the prosecutor's job to find out where BK was that night: it is the defense's job to provide an alibi!!! the prosecution of course has data they will use to attempt to disprove whatever alibi the defense puts forth!

That sounds a bit like the burden of proof should shift to the defense though. Just generally speaking, if I were a juror and the state couldn't tell me where the defendant was the night of the crime, I'd be hesitant to convict
MOO

 

[ilovewings]

That sounds a bit like the burden of proof should shift to the defense though. Just generally speaking, if I were a juror and the state couldn't tell me where the defendant was the night of the crime, I'd be hesitant to convict
MOO

I did a little research and it seems you have a point. The prosecution has the burden of proof- not the defense- so as far as I can tell then, whatever alibi the defense puts forward, it is the prosecution's job to demonstrate to the jury that the alibi is not in fact reliable or true.

 

[daydreamin]

I don't believe it is the prosecutor's job to find out where BK was that night: it is the defense's job to provide an alibi!!! the prosecution of course has data they will use to attempt to disprove whatever alibi the defense puts forth!

With all due respect that is exactly their job isn't it? To prove BK committed the crime which he'd of had to have been there at the scene of the crime. Afterall we're talking about the death penalty.

I also find it very interesting that Sy Ray is doing all of this pro bono.

Just my opinion. Thanks

 

[maskedwoman]

I don't believe it is the prosecutor's job to find out where BK was that night: it is the defense's job to provide an alibi!!! the prosecution of course has data they will use to attempt to disprove whatever alibi the defense puts forth!

Not to split hairs, I agree it isn't the prosecutor's job to find out where BK was all evening. And yes, providing an alibi is the defense's job. BUT if the prosecution can't prove BK was at the crime scene, he shouldn't be on trial. MOOooo

 

[katydid23]

Do you remember? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but at the time BK was arrested, it was reported (I think) that he asked if he was the only one arrested.

What if there was someone else involved? Someone who drove the phone around while BK did the killing?

I don't think that happened, but I thought it was an odd comment for BK to make when he was arrested unless someone else was involved. Then, after a while, I just put it down to nervousness.

Your post brought that back to me, but I can't swear it's the truth. It could have been misreported.

I've wondered if he asked if anyone else had been arrested because he was worried his father might have been because they drove back together and were pulled over twice. Maybe he worried about that?

 

[Boxer]

Do you remember? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but at the time BK was arrested, it was reported (I think) that he asked if he was the only one arrested.

What if there was someone else involved? Someone who drove the phone around while BK did the killing?

I don't think that happened, but I thought it was an odd comment for BK to make when he was arrested unless someone else was involved. Then, after a while, I just put it down to nervousness.

Your post brought that back to me, but I can't swear it's the truth. It could have been misreported.

His father was a possible abettor after the fact. MOO he was asking if his Dad had been arrested. He woilf hsve been aware he was using his father.

 

[katydid23]

His father was a possible abettor after the fact. MOO he was asking if his Dad had been arrested. He woilf hsve been aware he was using his father.

Great Minds Think Alike...lol

 

[10ofRods]

10, you did it again! Your knowledge, experience and insight make you the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) on Reddit. I’m soooo glad you are here!

Oh thank you so much! I should mention that obviously, I wasn't talking to criminals every day. Or in mental hospitals all the time (I did a two year stint studying a group of long term locked wards and a summer research project at the criminally insane hospital at one point). I studied juvenile delinquents too. And was, for 15+ years working as a consultant in a large jail. The state mental hospital was the most enlightening - I was assigned to the serial rapists ward (across the hall was the pedophile ward - I didn't have the stomach for that, still wouldn't). Just a glance at the two wards showed vastly different demographics.

The overt goal of that serial rapist project was to send in some young women (I was in grad school) and see how the rapists behaved toward us and what they told us. Part of their treatment plan was that they were supposed to practice honesty.

I interviewed a lot of law enforcement, as well. Including LEO's who had broken the law. I interviewed victims any chance that I got. I am very interested in victimology, particular that little corner where victims (especially of domestic violence) refuse to leave a situation where they are being harmed.

What's interesting as we head toward trial in this major case is that law and evidence are at the forefront. Behind all that are real people, with vastly more facts, thoughts and ideas than what we are able to see in the courtroom. There's tons and tons of irrationality in the commission of almost any crime (and a specific life history leading up to each crime). Each victim has complex reactions and ideas, unique to themselves, often with high emotion that is obviously rarely exhibited in court. The trauma of the various parties (people in the defense office; people in the prosecution's office; people at the ME's office, on and on) is not shown in court either. Many have likely seen the autopsies, for example. If they are barred from talking about what they've seen (to anyone), that's a difficult burden because the path to healing trauma is to speak about it and share it and to some extent, relive it by accepting care and empathy and sympathy from others. The gag order in this case makes that nearly impossible.

I do wonder how many people on the defense team have seen the autopsy reports (I'm guessing only a handful - they need to keep morale in order and obey the gag order as well). For those who haven't followed many trials (I haven't followed very many here on WS), that moment when the jury had to see Gannon Stauch's autopsy picture (they were shown just one, I believe) was horrific and mindblowing and could not be unseen. Not a single member of the public had seen that photo before.

It will be 4 deceased victims in this upcoming trial. Some with defensive wounds.

 

[GRT]

I don't believe it is the prosecutor's job to find out where BK was that night: it is the defense's job to provide an alibi!!! the prosecution of course has data they will use to attempt to disprove whatever alibi the defense puts forth!

I get that sentiment, but I think it is the prosecutor's job, and DNA is a pretty good way to show--at least in most instances--where the killer was that night.

But, if the prosecutor can't make the case, in too many cases, the defendant walks. This is a huge case and everyone wants to see a successful conviction.

 

[GRT]

His father was a possible abettor after the fact. MOO he was asking if his Dad had been arrested. He woilf hsve been aware he was using his father.

That's an idea! That would explain it.

 

[10ofRods]

I did a little research and it seems you have a point. The prosecution has the burden of proof- not the defense- so as far as I can tell then, whatever alibi the defense puts forward, it is the prosecution's job to demonstrate to the jury that the alibi is not in fact reliable or true.

My understanding is that, in Idaho, the Judge gets to decide whether there's even an alibi to begin with.

If the alibi offered remains as "BK was out driving around somehere - including Moscow, ID" then it's not an alibi by most legal standards.

The alibi needs to address how the Defense can show that BK was no where near 1122 King road from 4 am to 4:35 am.

"Out driving around for hours" doesn't cut it, from a legal point of view. IMO. The Judge seems to agree.

IMO