4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

[CKS]

They found what in the house? The Vans? We know they found Vans footprints in the home. Is that what you mean? Or are you talking about BK's home? I'm confused.

There's pics of LE bringing clear bags out of 1122 King Rd and you can see vans in the bag.

 

[Cool Cats]

Anne Taylor introduced Wawawai Park as Kohberger's favorite location. She did not claim that he was ‘stargazing’ that morning, but that he was driving in that area that morning. She claimed that he often did hike and run and/or see the moon and stars.

His alibi is not ‘stargazing’ at Wawawai Park. He was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13, 40 miles from Moscow, from the house. [“He drove throughout the AREA south of Pullman, Washington, west of Moscow, Idaho, including Wawawai Park.”]

Allegedly, he used to hike/run/drive while living in PA. He didn’t start these activities when he moved to Pullman.


Also, let's be honest if his alibi was he was at home sleeping would your opinion really be any different?

AT also said that his alibi 'is more than just Bryan driving around'.

Again for the record and I've said it numerous times that I don't think BK is innocent but I'm also not like many of you who seem to have already convicted him.

IMO, there's A LOT more to this story than we've heard or know and I will say that what we don't know could be 100% proof that he is guilty. But from what we know publicly I just don't see how people are so convinced he is guilty.

For example, what if it turns out that the door dash driver drives a white four door sedan? I mean what if that white 'elantra' in the video has nothing to do with the crime that night? What if it's actually the white four door sedan on another video that is on camera picking up the guy at the dumpster late that night?


MOO

We are not convicting him, his own DNA and his own non-alibi are.

His lawyer says that BK does not know where he was at the hour of 4:00 am that night, only that he was out driving somewhere. Even the defense expert admits he does not know exactly where BK was at 4:00 am and that if any new cell tower evidence comes to light it could help the prosecution.

BK's own lawyer admits that this is BK's DNA on the sheath.

How many white sedans are driving all over at 4:00 am and on top of that with no front license plate? BK admits he was driving around at 4:00 am in a car that looks like the car on video and his car has no front license plate.

BK and his attorneys practically are helping the prosecution prove it's DP case against him. I would not be surprised if in the 11th hour BK asks for a plea deal to stay off of death row where I believe he is heading.

2 Cents

 

[Chloegirl]

There's pics of LE bringing clear bags out of 1122 King Rd and you can see vans in the bag.

Oh? I have followed pretty closely this whole time and have not seen that. If you could offer a link that would be fantastic.

 

[Nila Aella]

Sy Ray, iiuc, is former LE. Bet he's testified plenty for the State. As LE.

JMO

According to SR testimony: He retired from LE (20 years service) in May 2014 and started the company ZetX.
He has testified as an expert since retiring from LE.

54:20

US v Reynolds

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj0mtLyzvWHAxX55MkDHZt5MnkQFnoECDsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.justia.com%2Fcases%2Ffederal%2Fappellate-courts%2Fca6%2F22-1431%2F22-1431-2023-11-09.html&usg=AOvVaw1kvw0vtPxVMjj-4pPlwz0X&opi=89978449

Thanks

Moscow, Idaho, Police Chief James Fry is asked by NBC News' Dana Griffin whether Kohberger inquired if others were in custody in connection with the slayings. Fry responded, saying he couldn't confirm that Kohberger made such a statement.

Later Dana Griffin asked if he was "100 percent" confident that Kohberger was the only suspect in the killings, Fry said he was, "without a doubt."

At 17 minutes 20 seconds

From testimony since then, we know the federal grand jury in 2023 was looking (warrants) at other suspects per the D in the Motion to Compel hearing. One ATT warrant with real time tracking was for "someone else" in Spring 2023 per AJ in the same hearing.

I think the only place this has ever been mentioned was a Mike Baker article in the New York Times. I think it's possible a source told him Elantra and he heard Sentra. I guess we'll find out at trial if the defense brings it up in cross.
IMO

When M Baker was querried about this, he said it was not a mistake and that he had receipts (in the comment section of the article he posted).

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

There's pics of LE bringing clear bags out of 1122 King Rd and you can see vans in the bag.

This is the first I've heard of this. Can you please post a link?

 

[GRT]

It is actually good that LE looked at other cars instead of just focusing on one car, which would mean that LE refused to do a complete investigation. This includes looking at cars made in different years. We know LE checked older Elantras and this is good, this is how investigations are conducted.

2 Cents

That's actually a very good point, and I'm sure BK was highly amused when that came out. It is to their credit that they continued sleuthing rather than sticking to the Nissan and not budging. But, ST will still use that little gem to signify that they jumped to conclusions. At least I think she will.

MOO

 

[GRT]

Do you have a link on the Sentra? My memory had it an Elantra (first three model years)
They got videos in as time went on.

The only link I have right now is that NYT one in my post.

My question on the videos is whether they have any with BK sitting at the wheel of the car. I'm not familiar with Idaho, but locally, virtually every stoplight has a front-facing camera that will catch the person driving as they pass through the intersection. However, BK, being a grad student in criminal justice, would surely have known that and would have taken a route that did not bring him to stoplights.

The thing is -- we may not be privy to all of the evidence they have yet. But, the feeling I get is that they're not dealing with an average, run-of-the-mill killer. They're dealing with someone who might know how to get around basic evidence paths.

I really worry about this one. Like I said, I'm at an 80:20 when it comes to convict: acquit.

<modsnip - off topic>

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

RSBM

Why though? I am really confused why this matters at all (what vehicle LE initially looked for in early days of investigation vs what they ended up looking for after they had more information), especially given how similar the early vs later are. IMO, in the early days, some LE officer assigned to the task made a note of some white car that ""maybe" looks like"this", then as a similar looking vehicle popped up in more videos later, LE appropriately had some expert take a look and narrow down the year, make, model.

The post you're replying to wasn't about different years of similar looking cars of the same make. It was about an entirely different car - Sentra vs Elantra, along with the years. And that isn't really how it happened. Had they said "some white car that maybe looks like this," then it might not be as big a deal. But instead, they definitively came out and said "we're looking for THIS car, please let us know if you see it." They were pretty confident only until they found out BK didn't drive that particular car.

A competent defense attorney is going to bring up anything that sheds light on how law enforcement came to arrest her client and whether there was any bias involved. Knowing the name of the suspect and make and model of his car PRIOR to changing what kind of car you're looking for does leave the door open for an argument of bias. Why would a defense attorney NOT use it? I think it would be malpractice for AT not to bring this up. It's a crucial part of the case law enforcement built against BK and the timing of when they changed their opinion of the car is important.

MOO

 

[stemkb]

we know the federal grand jury in 2023 was looking (warrants) at other suspects per the D in the Motion to Compel hearing

Thousands of tips were received. Some better than others, no doubt. It is wise for agencies to peruse other plausible leads until all avenues of enquiry are exhausted, even if the information ends down a cul de sac.

If the lead detective is asked during trial if other tips were exhaustively investigated, including connections to the defendant, and he responds "No", then Moscow PD will be accused of myopia.

JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Thousands of tips were received. Some better than others, no doubt. It is wise for agencies to peruse other plausible leads until all avenues of enquiry are exhausted, even if the information ends down a cul de sac.

If the lead detective is asked during trial if other tips were exhaustively investigated, including connections to the defendant, and he responds "No", then Moscow PD will be accused of myopia.

JMO

These were search warrants from a sitting investigative federal grand jury.
JMO

 

[stemkb]

These were search warrants from a sitting investigative federal grand jury.

Doesn't alter a word I wrote, IMO. Especially this part

including connections to the defendant

 

[Balthazar]

The problem the prosecution is going to have with the route they allege BK took to Moscow is that they claim he turned East from Stadium Way onto 270. There are no traffic cameras at that intersection, however, to the East there ARE traffic cameras at the intersection of 270 and Bishop Blvd. BK would have had to pass this intersection on his way to Moscow. The problem is there are no photos of BK's white Elantra at the intersection of 270 and Bishop Blvd on the night in question per BP's testimony. This is puzzling because at the intersection of 270 and Bishop Blvd, there are numerous traffic cameras pointing in all directions. This suggests that he did not turn East on 270 from Stadium Way. If BK didn't turn East onto 270 from Stadium Way, then the ONLY other option would be that he turned West unless he parked or decided to go home. If he turned West, then it's pretty obvious he was headed to Wawaiwai Park via 195 and 194. There don't appear to be any traffic cameras on 270 along this west route other than one focused on a different street - still that one might have captured BK's car. I wonder if the police canvassed the local businesses for security cameras to see if they could locate BK's car going West on 270?

All JMO.

 

[mickey2942]

Good grief. Are we going to see the defense pull a rabbit out of a hat? And in some alternate universe BK goes free to roam the earth?

 

[Nila Aella]

Doesn't alter a word I wrote, IMO. Especially this part

including connections to the defendant

Why would they look at "other suspects" if they were sure BK did this alone? Looking into "other suspectS". There was no mention whether these other suspects were connected to BK or not.

The original post I was responding to said Chief Fry was sure BK did this alone and LE was not looking for anyone else. Chief F said this shortly after arrest and before the multitude of search warrants following the arrest.

From the original post:
Later Dana Griffin asked if he was "100 percent" confident that Kohberger was the only suspect in the killings, Fry said he was, "without a doubt."

This federal grand jury and the warrants were issued late 2023 according to the testimony. This is after all the early search warrants related to the crime, many warrants following arrest, and after the grand jury that indicted BK.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

The post you're replying to wasn't about different years of similar looking cars of the same make. It was about an entirely different car - Sentra vs Elantra, along with the years. And that isn't really how it happened. Had they said "some white car that maybe looks like this," then it might not be as big a deal. But instead, they definitively came out and said "we're looking for THIS car, please let us know if you see it." They were pretty confident only until they found out BK didn't drive that particular car.

A competent defense attorney is going to bring up anything that sheds light on how law enforcement came to arrest her client and whether there was any bias involved. Knowing the name of the suspect and make and model of his car PRIOR to changing what kind of car you're looking for does leave the door open for an argument of bias. Why would a defense attorney NOT use it? I think it would be malpractice for AT not to bring this up. It's a crucial part of the case law enforcement built against BK and the timing of when they changed their opinion of the car is important.

MOO

More video got collected over time. The gas station cashier who reviewed footage helped too.

 

[Balthazar]

edited by me for focus:

The only link I have right now is that NYT one in my post.

My question on the videos is whether they have any with BK sitting at the wheel of the car. I'm not familiar with Idaho, but locally, virtually every stoplight has a front-facing camera that will catch the person driving as they pass through the intersection. However, BK, being a grad student in criminal justice, would surely have known that and would have taken a route that did not bring him to stoplights.

Rewatching the testimony of BP will help you answer this question, but the answer is that BP said there is no video or photo showing BK in the car. I'm puzzled over the multiple traffic cameras he would have passed through if he took the route alleged by police in both Washington and Idaho where there is no photo of his car at all.

 

[stemkb]

Why would they look at "other suspects" if they were sure BK did this alone?

Completely missing from your analysis is the Temporal factor (i.e. what was said when, by who, face-to-face with new or concurrent information developed by other agencies). None of these things are necessarily in contradiction with each other.

The original post I was responding to said Chief Fry was sure BK did this alone and LE was not looking for anyone else. Chief F said this shortly after arrest

Right, Fry said that shortly after the arrest in December 2022, and my contribution was to highlight law enforcement agencies being thorough, either developing existing information or investigating fresh lines of enquiry.

This federal grand jury and the warrants were issued late 2023 according to the testimony.

Yes, all manner of interesting leads can surface as investigators continue to make progress or receive additional information about a particular subject. Investigations have many moving parts.

JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Completely missing from your analysis is the Temporal factor (i.e. what was said when, by who, face-to-face with new or concurrent information developed by other agencies). None of these things are necessarily in contradiction with each other.


Right, Fry said that shortly after the arrest in December 2022, and my contribution was to highlight law enforcement agencies being thorough, either developing existing information or investigating fresh lines of enquiry.


Yes, all manner of interesting leads can surface as investigators continue to make progress or receive additional information about a particular subject. Investigations have many moving parts.

JMO

I stated the timeline clearly. That was my point. Chief F said that early on.
Yes exactly. Investigations can turn up other suspects, even after an arrest.
We agree!
JMO

 

[PinkParis2052]

This is the first I've heard of this. Can you please post a link?

This is the best that I could find. It's clear that there are Vans shoes in the clear bag.

Watch the first video on the page
Timestamp about 54 seconds into the video.

Idaho murders: Forensics expert questions 'urgency' in removing victims' personal belongings from crime scene

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20, Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and 21-year-old Madison Mogen were stabbed several times and killed Nov. 13.

www.foxnews.com

 

[windrower]

The post you're replying to wasn't about different years of similar looking cars of the same make. It was about an entirely different car - Sentra vs Elantra, along with the years. And that isn't really how it happened. Had they said "some white car that maybe looks like this," then it might not be as big a deal. But instead, they definitively came out and said "we're looking for THIS car, please let us know if you see it." They were pretty confident only until they found out BK didn't drive that particular car.

A competent defense attorney is going to bring up anything that sheds light on how law enforcement came to arrest her client and whether there was any bias involved. Knowing the name of the suspect and make and model of his car PRIOR to changing what kind of car you're looking for does leave the door open for an argument of bias. Why would a defense attorney NOT use it? I think it would be malpractice for AT not to bring this up. It's a crucial part of the case law enforcement built against BK and the timing of when they changed their opinion of the car is important.

MOO

Truly, I don’t understand your logic here.

LE spots a white car on video from a video cam within the neighborhood of a murder (or, in this case, four murders). They can tell it’s a white four-door sedan, and they think it’s a Sentra, until Officer X looks at the video and says, I think it’s an Elantra instead, maybe C year to F year.

A white Elantra is discovered in a parking lot of a college, but a different year than LE first thought. Back to the video, and car people say, C year to J year actually all look incredibly similar. LE might be wrong on the year of car on the video.

LE says Owner of the white Elantra should be investigated to see if he could be a suspect.

And away we go.

I’m not sure why there’s any problem whatsoever.

Nobody wants a suspect railroaded or brought forth erroneously. But I don’t see the thought process or logic here of parsing out a specific year and saying LE cannot change what

It sounds like you are saying, rather than narrowing down, to the best they can, what they are looking for when they ask for help, they should say, “Please help us if you have seen a white vehicle.” Because LE shouldn’t later modify what they are looking for?

I guess we’d better agree to disagree on this one. And that’s okay.