7.0 Earthquake Hits Haiti Hospital Collapses

[songline]

Well...they have the same sunshine and some nice beaches...but the abject poverty and the dangers are such that there are NO tourists

for example...you can look back for months on the "forum" at tripadvisors.com

the other islands have tons of tourists.. Haiti had virtually none....just a few people going there on various missions and stuff

tripadvisor listed 5 restaurants and just a few hotels for the whole country...compared to hundreds and hundreds for the other islands

the forum is just a few people asking about safety etc as they are going there on missons....and a few cruisers asking about the ONE cruise day resort of Labadee

in fact, the "suggestions" in Haiti were to "hire a guide" to take you around, keep you safe, and they would handle the language

No, I don't think we can afford to leave our citizens in that little airport...the water was not safe in Haiti before the quake....and who knows when/if the now free prisoners might attack the airport?? We have to get them out of there first...dengue fever, cholera are next up....
it is not a matter of our citizens to decide "take them first"...we have to put our citizens on those planes and get them out of there and then bring in troops....UN troops...not just US..

oh yeah...and I do hope France steps up...any former colony of theirs has had horrors and problems...VietNam...Lebanon....Algeria

Martinique is another extremely poor island , too dangerous for cruiseships, few stop there and no one goes there for vacations..and yeah, another "thank you" to France for them

One thing about me Songline...I know what I am talking about first hand...I have been to a lot of islands and know people who have been to them, worked on islands etc....and I challenge anyone to show some links that Haiti had "tourists" or squandered tourist dollars....it just didn't happen

the place was dirt poor......unlike other countries that support tourism it had NO tour hot spots, not many speak english, no attractions for tourists, few hotels, (mostly filled with misson/engineers/maybe people buying art or whatever)...and if I am wrong, I will say it...once I see the links...thanks

You are very reasonable and make much sense, Just as NYC is an Island, the hotels the tourist trade is centered in the areas that flourish and are not a ghetto.
As a Marketing person I do know that can not be. I have been to a number of Caribbean Islands, Martinique was one of them, and loved it, but was never drawn to the impoverished places, not because of the people and the economy but wherever there is desperation there is crime. Not the best way to vacation IMHO...most tourists would think this way.
We all know how poor they are, and how some areas are worse then others, or safer then others, but all countries have Thugs and good people too. The area that was struck was very impoverished.
And I did check very few ships or flights go there on a regular basis. Definitely not a sign of great tourism.
But like I did say earlier there are some people who are not about really correcting you, but they are just about whatever is going on with them. So be it...I taught personal development I know how to read between the lines.
This catastrophe is so sad because that city was the central of Haiti, where all government buildings, airport, trade, are all happening. They did lose more then just lives. They lost whatever they had by way of a government, and officials too to re-construct.
I realize that many ailments can come and that is why they had buried so many in mass graves, but I forgot about the inmates that are on the lose, I just do not think there are 4000 of them any more- I am sure many perished too, and now without ID they can just blend in with the rest of the folks and I can barely imagine the devastation they alone can cause.

 

[hockeymom]

Not that this has any bearing on anything,but Club Med used to be in Haiti. I have no idea when it closed,but at some point they had somewhat of a tourist trade.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Hi Songline...

sadly the poorly constructed prison probably did let many of the 4000 out...as it was mostly one level from what I have read

the few "government" buildings, embassies, the very few hotels...were multistory..hence they "pancaked"...and that is why so many dead and missing at them

if you have a little tin roof shack you could dig yourself out of it, but the 7 stories of concrete at the "Hotel Montana" are hard going...however there is hope some rescues on Sunday and even one woman pulled out of the Montana

Lynn University has 5 rescue crews there at the points where the students were (hotel rooms) and the profs..(they were in the gym)....the students who are safe home were outside by the pool

It is such a mess...such a daunting task

 

[songline]

I agree with the sending of money. But who is buying the supplies? How are the supplies getting there? How are the supplies distributed. With a disabled government, and looters in the street, I worry that the looters will take these graciously donated items and sell them on the black market.

There HAS to be an infrastructure in place before millions over millions are donated to Haiti.

Still, with a blocked city port and relief groups claiming the U.S.-run airport is being poorly managed, food and medicine are scarce. Anger mounted hourly over the slow pace of the assistance.

In short, we can bring in all the relief we want, but without some kind of order or leadership, it will be complete chaos. The UN has to think long and hard on how this should be handled.

In the meantime, I will continue to pray for the victims, both alive and deceased. May God wrap them in his wings during this awful time.

Mel

There are planes and boats bringing supplies for now, and there is still a transportation problem to get it all to the people, but they ARE doing what can be done and many are getting help. They found more alive Saturday and Sunday and that is a great thing. More trained help is landing all the time. And they only looted one truck, or whatever was left in the supermarkets. It is NATURAL to see looters during such horrific times of fighting for survival. But in general they are helping each other too. It is not as if these people are not in desperation THEY ARE.
It is true there is hardly any leadership but the UN was sent down to remedy that issue.
Would it be different in any poor country?
Would the desperation change if they were rich folks?
Would the transportation be better if they were all SUVs that got swallowed up? NO....It is what it is and the world has to stand by and help not just pray. but praying is good and I do it too

 

[LogicalMinds]

Not that this has any bearing on anything,but Club Med used to be in Haiti. I have no idea when it closed,but at some point they had somewhat of a tourist trade.

Club Med Haiti ("Magic") was open in the mid 80's and closed in 87 due to political unrest....it reopened for a few years 93-95 then closed for good

it was a "primative" (old style) Club Med....French run...and mostly for French people/students/budget travelers

one hotel is NOT a "tourist" trade...and this (at that time) was very much a "budget" operation

the "best" hotel in the country was the Montana...where my friend is missing

and frankly it was 143 rooms...and looked nice but like an old 40's style hotel nicely painted and maintained....

we have apt complexes in south florida that have more luxury resort facilities than the Montana to be honest with you

the whole country on Tripadvisor has 5 restaurants listed...in years their forum has 250 threads...in years...mostly from missionaries, people asking how to be "safe" (hire an armed guard)...how to get to Haiti....few flights , mostly charters.....and cruisers who want info on the "private" beach of Labadee which is ONLY open to RCI cruisers for the hours they are in port a few times a week

that is not a tourist trade at all...I live in an area that depends on tourists....I know people in the travel business, I know Haitians, and I know the islands. I also know that in NO way is Haiti considered a tourist spot

One huge problem is the lack of sanitation there....and the fact they speak a dialect (Creole/Kreole) of French...most French could probably not understand them but they could "get by...many Haitians speak some French...for an American to go there 2 weeks ago as a tourist was out of the question...and now it looks like it will be out of the question for ? years/who knows


French Club Med was last there over 15 years ago...and was a budget "student" resort....more like a campground

Hotel Montana had 143 rooms

RCI's Labadee supported about 200 Haitians in a small village 100 miles north of Port au Prince...PaP HAD over 2 million people before the quake

The notion that the Haitians had some "fantastic tourist trade" or lots of cruiseship business that they were/are ungrateful for and somehow "mismanaged" is just not factual, sorry

 

[songline]

I've managed to keep myself out of this discussion because I'm not sure how I feel. However, I don't see how bringing in Palestinians (others did), the holocaust, or Armenia are germaine to this conversation. I'm tired of these buzz words being used to prove a personal point.

What I see is a nation of ignorant people, unwilling to help themselves. Yes, the government may/might have been corrupt, but I've seen other countries revolt to make things better. I believe different groups of people have different mind sets, thought patterns, and until we understand that and stop trying to force them into a Western mode/lifestyle, we will continue to see corruption, ignorance, and bitter poverty. I don't believe everyone needs to be Westernized, but I further believe they need to take the consequences of the lifestyle they choose, but it should be their right to choose it.

That said, when there is a natural disaster of such proportions, YES, we should go in and HELP them. Good Lord, any one of those children could be ours if this had happened here. We would want help then, wouldn't we.

My opinion only

while all people have a right to chose whatever life style they believe in. And While it is also true that different people have different mind sets.
Bringing up different people is used as REFERENCE POINTS throughout history, that is how we use information, and learn from History. You can call them buzz words if you like, but the fact that it would plug anyone in - to me seems like perhaps those words are a personal issue. Please feel free not to read my posts But I will not stop using those references.
It is always offensive to me when people do not care about others especially folks that are not hateful or terrorists.
These are poor human beings in a desperate situation, needing help.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Brwnigirl: You know it. People are just waiting for this children and we need to cut away the red tape and get things moving. The children will find good homes and care, just what they have always needed here in the States.

God Bless them all. Let's get the ball rolling.

Goz

Do you have some special powers or something? :waitasec: If you do, how can I help?

 

[LogicalMinds]

Songline....the people there seem to be hanging in there....many went to church yesterday and were praying and singing, tho the churches were flattened, had no roofs etc

Haiti is a real logistics problem...it has mountains, horrible roads, and LOTS of people

a small country with a similar geography is Dominica but they only have about 70,000 people so they are able to use their resources better and have been developing eco-tourism etc....

Haiti has a crowded city of slums...more people live/d in Port au Prince than live on many little islands combined

As an example...Dominica has 70,000 inhabitants....Haiti had over 9 million people (before the quake)

Many of the other islands have small population....and that is why they are pretty safe and tho the people live differently from us, you will see dishes on their little houses and they have gardens and jobs or whatever....

Haiti (and Jamaica) have "cities" with the problems of cities...poverty, and crime...magnified so many times over

Dominican Republic has 10 million people...but a MUCH larger land mass than Haiti...and better "geography"...better beaches, less untamed mountains

we can't change what happened or what is happening there.. it really seems like a huge task, just thinking about it is enough to cause a headache and tears...

I guess we can just do what we can...try to find a good place to donate...accept the fact that Haitians will be allowed to stay here , and more will come

I just hope we can keep the criminals out...the Mariel Boat Lift disaster made it very dangerous in Maimi for years....we need to stop a repeat of that JMO
(and yes, people in South Florida are worried about this, rightfully so )

Hopefully some miracles will occur...maybe a whole new future for what is left of Haiti?

One good bit of news...the "pressure" on the "fault" is released...so scientists say it will probably be 100 years before another earthquake would even form...well I guess that is good??

 

[songline]

Do you have any idea how huge that ship is? Well, it is huge and they dont move fast. Why do people always seem so ungrateful? That ship is a dream, even has rooms on it to do dental work.
I forget how many op rooms it has. When it gets there Wed, the people will start getting quality care.
Prs Obama has said he will give $100,000,000 to help Haiti isnt that enough? but you cant just go in there the day after, it is too dangerous. One runway left? how many planes do you think really can get in there at once? It is not an easy situation but people ARE trying to help. The prime minister of Haiti needs to get out there, from the article I read, he isn't, and assure the people that help is on the way.

:clap::clap::clap: Great Post girl friend...They are doing what they can as fast as they can. And with the lack of order it is still moving along. I hope it will begin to move faster, but so many are overwhelmed at their ordeal and loss, that it really will take all the rescue teams to do most of it, because they are really lost right now GOD BLESS THEM ALL.
their Prime Minister is unfortunetly no real politician :innocent: so he too is so overwhelmed that he does not know what to promise his people, I am sure as soon as some of this trauma is a bit more orderly he will gather himself and now what to say, at least I do hope so..

 

[hockeymom]

I find it very hard to believe that anyone would think that the Haitians or anyone for that matter would choose to live in the conditions they have been living under. Maybe they would choose to not be totaly "westernized",but they certainly would like to have sanitary conditions and a working infrastructure. Obviously the corrupt government has held back the monies that have been sent over there,in order to keep their people down so they can stay in power. I feel that as horrific as this event has been,maybe its a chance for the wonderful people of Haiti to build something better. The eyes of the world are on them,and hopefully out of the ashes a good and honest government will rise to make Haiti a better place.

 

[songline]

Hi...have you been to these islands?? NO one goes to Haiti (except for RCI's private beach day on some of their west carrib cruises)....the airports in the "better off" islands are rinky dink...ie, St Martin, St Thomas..and those are the good islands

I maintain that the best thing to do was to get the Americans out of there asap....for one thing, Haiti had no real sewage/water treatment to start with...it is such a dangerous country that those who venture there go with with a "guide" ...to translate and PROTECT

The "embassy" was in ruins....and vulnerable to a mob angry at USA...
the airport was little and rinky dink to start with...and is in a shambles..

I saw where you said..."get a phone and water" at the airport and let injured Haitians on the plane...well there are no working phones in Haiti right now....there would not necessarily be water at the airport..
and frankly the Americans there could be in grave danger

These are college kids, retired people doing good deeds like Rich...missonary workers...they are not able to fight off a mob...not to mention that cholera, disentary, etc are on the way with the amount of dead, decomposition, contaminated water

It might "feel good" to say "let them on first"...but that could be a disaster

I am all for helping Haiti....I am participating in a fundraiser, and have donated....I also know Haitians here and I see their frustration and their efforts to help their poor homeland

but it does NOT help Haiti to have US Citizens die needlessly there...our obligation is to get them out of there

otherwise NO one will ever go back there to work, volunteer, and no one will or should go on any of these missions

remember....there was NO "tourism" trade in Haiti..any one there was there on business, mostly misson/volunteer business

I hate to argue but I find that this is a place where people can confuse "feelings" with "facts"....ie, the idea that Haiti somehow "mismanaged" it's "tourist trade" ....

there was NO tourist trade (other than that one private beach)...NO one went there for "pleasure"....

As for the idea that Haitians who somehow are here legally could have brought over their relatives....our immigration policy has been against them (hence their anger at the Cubans)

anyone who lives down here has seen countless sad stories of Haitians trying to get here...on rafts, rowboats...dying in the attempt...washed up on beaches only to be shipped back (no "dry land" policy for them like we have for Cubans)...or being cut off by coast guard and shipped back to Haiti

Dom Republic is doing more surgery cause they have better roads...if they can get them out of Haiti and over there they can get to a hospital that are full to the brim it seems..

the problem is that the airport was small and not great to start with, it has damage...there are not many traffic controllers (? lost in the quake?)....it is a logistical nightmare

and yes...I am glad the students were taken to the Canadian embassy and given food and water...they were there to help the Haitians and should be out of there first IMHO

I have been to islands where they have armed guards keeping the tourists safe on the all inclusives (Jamaica) or at the ports (Belize etc)...and those are "tourist" spots....Haiti was NOT a tourist spot (and I am still waiting for anyone to back up the idea that it was)

Can you imagine if americans who "gave up their seat" are in the shattered airport when /if an angry crowd decides to go there to look for food?? Scary

the US needs armed troops, search and rescue people (guarded by armed troops) and tons of medical people (guarded by armed troops)

Hopefully they will be able to get more people to the hospital ship we sent..that will be a big help I hope

Thank you for sharing all your knowledge, it helps a lot to get a handle on what it is really like.
YES we here who think with our hearts and do not have as much knowledge mean well. We want to see them save as many as possible. I am sure the UN is very handy there right now. I am sure the few flights that go in and out are carrying as many Americans as they can find. At least I do hope so because by now it has been almost a week and they must be at the tail end of their rope. So yes get them home fast.

 

[songline]

Not that this has any bearing on anything,but Club Med used to be in Haiti. I have no idea when it closed,but at some point they had somewhat of a tourist trade.

Maybe it closed because it was doing so poorly.
From a marketing point of view...It cant have much of a tourist trade, and it would be designated to a specific area. People do not come here to NY to visit the Ghettos either. Just saying.
So yes they do have a tourist trade but not enough to make them a flourishing country.
However having said that - they can still become fairly self reliant IMHO.
I used Israel and Palestine as an example: one has cutting edge agriculture, and medicine, and everything the other has sand. They do live in the exact same region.
Haiti live in the same region as the Dominicans do and I hope that someday they can see their way out of this mess.
But for now we have to raise to the immediate needs.

 

[songline]

Hi Songline...

sadly the poorly constructed prison probably did let many of the 4000 out...as it was mostly one level from what I have read
the few "government" buildings, embassies, the very few hotels...were multistory..hence they "pancaked"...and that is why so many dead and missing at them

if you have a little tin roof shack you could dig yourself out of it, but the 7 stories of concrete at the "Hotel Montana" are hard going...however there is hope some rescues on Sunday and even one woman pulled out of the Montana

Lynn University has 5 rescue crews there at the points where the students were (hotel rooms) and the profs..(they were in the gym)....the students who are safe home were outside by the pool

It is such a mess...such a daunting task

BBM
:waitasec: hmmm they opened the door and let them out?
or the building collapsed and many were able to get out?
If it collapsed like other buildings maybe many were swallowed by nature?

I pray for all in the Hotel Montana...I know we lost many there, and pray we will find many more.

I hope they never build any more multi story building in that area, As I often felt they should not in any area that has any earthquake predictions/faults.

 

[hockeymom]

Maybe it closed because it was doing so poorly.
From a marketing point of view...It cant have much of a tourist trade, and it would be designated to a specific area. People do not come here to NY to visit the Ghettos either. Just saying.
So yes they do have a tourist trade but not enough to make them a flourishing country.
However having said that - they can still become fairly self reliant IMHO.
I used Israel and Palestine as an example: one has cutting edge agriculture, and medicine, and everything the other has sand. They do live in the exact same region.
Haiti live in the same region as the Dominicans do and I hope that someday they can see their way out of this mess.
But for now we have to raise to the immediate needs.

I think the Isreal-Palestine example is a good example please correct me if I'm wrong,for the most part its not the Palastinian people who choose to live impoverished,but their leaders who would loose their power and idenity if they did not have an antiIsreali agenda. I don't want to hijack this thread into a political one as I think it should be about the suffering in Haiti,but it bothers me to read that somehow the people themselves in Haiti are ignorant and responsable for the conditions they live in.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Personally I think it's wonderful to see/read these passionate posts about Haiti & the Haitian people - unfortunately the discussions arise - as they often do - as the result of a current casatrophic tragedy. I wish that I had known more/cared more about Haiti & the Haitian people BEFORE January 12, 2010 - I hope that we'll all continue this discussion long after the media pulls out of Haiti. With that said, when I see faces of trauma & tragedy on my tv, I see human beings suffering AND that my friends is what we all are, before & beyond being American, Haitian, Chinese, French, Australian, Russian..., we are human beings and when I see a FELLOW human being hurting, I respond - period. I was born in the USA. I could have been in Haiti but I wasn't. I don't know why but I'm reminded of the following;

"But for the grace of God go I."

So true. What is interesting to ponder too is why we credit the people we do. When I'm at a football game, I cheer for my side - it's natural to do so. The first or second day after the earthquake, I saw a report showing a huge cargo plane that had landed with what looked like two hundred Chinese volunteers who had gathered for a group picture in front of their plane. I have no idea what their role ended up being or what they brought but they responded quickly. I have not heard anything about them since. Also I recall hearing that the Norwegians were one of the first groups to respond in country. Then I heard that planes were having difficulty landing because of overcrowding and, of course, the pilots and the country they represent began complaining about being held back from landing their plane. In fact, a system was put in place to allow the most needed cargo loaded planes in first versus ones loaded with cargo that could wait. I understand that it would stink to have flown so far and not be able to deliver your goods but everyone can't land at once. Why do they automatically take it personally instead of trying to cooperate and to understand the complications of the vast job it is to coordinate this effort. Two of the countries wasted no time in launching complaints againt the US (who is commanding the air field). I can understand the feelings of everyone involved but crucial calls have to be made that don't take into account feelings.

IMO it's often a thankless job to be the leader. It's a good thing that many leaders aren't immature or they'd throw their hands up in the air and say "then do it yourself if you don't like the way we're doing it".

 

[LogicalMinds]

BBM
:waitasec: hmmm they opened the door and let them out?
or the building collapsed and many were able to get out?
If it collapsed like other buildings maybe many were swallowed by nature?

I pray for all in the Hotel Montana...I know we lost many there, and pray we will find many more.

I hope they never build any more multi story building in that area, As I often felt they should not in any area that has any earthquake predictions/faults.

I think damage to the prison allowed them to get out...

figure the guards were running for their lives....and maybe some killed..

high rise in Haiti is especially scary cause they have no building codes for so many years

even the Lonely Planet tour guide has very little for Haiti before the quake

they had a few flights a week into their badly run airport...huge delays, so unorganized...they had a few buses that people could get on from the Dom Republic...but no real schedule...yes...NO bus schedule

the buses are called "tap taps"....and run where/when they feel like it I guess you "tap tap" and get on them if you are lucky

from wiki>>> Half of the children in Haiti are unvaccinated and just 40% of the population has access to basic health care.[51] Even before the 2010 earthquake, nearly half the causes of deaths have been attributed to HIV/AIDS, respiratory infections, meningitis and diarrheal diseases, including cholera and typhoid, according to the World Health Organization.[52] Ninety percent of Haiti’s children suffer from waterborne diseases and intestinal parasites.[53] Approximately 5% of Haiti's adult population is infected with HIV.[54] Cases of tuberculosis (TB) in Haiti are more than ten times as high as those in other Latin American countries.[55] Some 30,000 people in Haiti suffer each year from malaria



Our state dept had travel warnings out before the earthquake...heavy warnings...health, safety and more

9000 UN Troops have been there to help restore order...Haiti was hit by huricanes and tropical storms....a tropical storm that might mess up our patios here devastated Haiti...making it even worse than ever..they had 4 of these last year alone

ATM's don't work in Haiti..hit or miss

very few speak English...the roads are horrible...the cars are old and crazy drivers and/or loaded with stuff....you could not safely rent a car there
(hire a guide)

there is no sanitation...the electricity is so shaky that it might be on for 4 hours a day if they are lucky...or if they even have it

The small enclave of rich people live behind bars...with generators..

basically a hotel like the Montana had generators....it ran much the way a cruiseship runs

people were "in" for the night...they ate dinner there, and stayed there

Haiti had NO motels...no hostels....no nothing...no resorts *(except for Labadee beach)....not even all inclusive resorts

a few "guesthouses" for very brave folks....and/or poorer/younger/stronger missionaries

"kids"...college kids...who might venture off to Thailand or India or parts of Africa stayed out of Haiti

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It really really bothers me that planes are coming in and taking people who are healthy back to their countries so they can tell us all about how traumatized they were during the whole ordeal.

Why don't these planes carry some of the injured to a hospital where they can be saved from broken bones? It cannot be about red tape as some children have been transported to Miami. Why aren't more kids getting out. Anderson Cooper said "These are stupid deaths"

Life should be the priorty right now, not citizenship. Save lives now! Who cares who will be there January 20th? Who is there NOW?

I would rather sit uncomfortable at an airport with limited supplies if I was healthy and it would save another person's life. I am tired of seeing these healthy people from other countries complaining about getting home. The sick and elderly I totally understand.

Where is that hospital ship based? How friggin long does it take to get there?
And I just don't understand what is taking so long for doctors to get set up there, especially from the US.
Israel did it, why can't North America?? GRrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone is frustrated. Israel has done a fantastic job. Are they also commanding the air field? Is their Army (82nd Airborne Div.) providing order and security in order to keep the supplies safe and to get them distributed in a manner so that the fittest don't hog all the goods leaving the weaker (women and children) without?

It is great when a group can focus on and accomplish a much needed service, has the skill and education to do it. Has it dawned on you that our doctors are stretched thin because of Iraq and Afghanistan? It's been this way for a long time now. Why though does that automatically lead to criticism of the US? Let someone else shine. What, you think we're twiddling our thumbs over there?

There's no point in leaving healthy people sitting there who have some place else to go. They use resources that could go to others and become sick/sicker themselves imo.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

While we must never refuse to help human beings. government can and many are corrupt. And while Haiti does not have oil or gold or diamonds or agriculture they have a beautiful sea and could have built a wonderful tourist trade and did not. So yes they could have done more but did not.
HOWEVER when it comes to a Natural disaster or any kind of a devastation, it would not matter if the land was lined in gold with palaces everywhere; Many still would have perished and those who survived need help that is it, in a nutshell. regardless of all else they need help and we must help them.
GOD BLESS THEM and may they heal fast. I think this kind of a shock will require psychological and spiritual help too.
This healing will take a long time.
but I think the world did show up for Haiti and I think like President Clinton said We will rebuild Haiti. But navigating through the rubble will take time. They are still finding people alive, Thank God.

And that is exactly what we (American people) and many other generous countries/people are doing. It is so easy for people to sit back and criticize - that's not right, this isn't done fast enough, blah, blah, blah. How does that help? Maybe it's venting. I often do that myself. I applaud every person who is willing to provide aid in any way, shape or form, from any country, at any time and especially the ones who do it quietly without desiring anything in return. There are so many good people like that of which some lost their lives in the earthquake for just being in Haiti trying to lend a hand. I hope there is a special place in Heaven for them as is promised along with the little children.

Honestly, I don't get why so many people can't grasp what a huge undertaking it is to get systems in place over there, to do it safely so there are no needless casualties of the helpers, etc. You really should get your butts over there then and work your miracles - just say'n.

 

[songline]

I think the Israel-Palestine example is a good example please correct me if I'm wrong,for the most part its not the Palestinian people who choose to live impoverished,but their leaders who would loose their power and identity if they did not have an anti Israel agenda. I don't want to hijack this thread into a political one as I think it should be about the suffering in Haiti,but it bothers me to read that somehow the people themselves in Haiti are ignorant and responsible for the conditions they live in.

You are correct on both counts;
It bothers me too that they are blaming the suffering in Haiti.
they do deserve international support. IMHO those who do not want to give will forever come up with excuses.
As for the Palestinians you are almost correct, yes it is a very corrupt government that keeps them down;
but it is the people who agree to send their children to hate school from the age of 3. and like you said
I too don't wish to hijack the thread;. But Israelis and Palestinians live in the same terrain, and there is
a huge difference in what has been done on both sides from education,medical, agricultural, and on and on.

But the terrain is a great example of possibilities. Haitians do have a similar terrain as the Dominicans have.

 

[songline]

Everyone is frustrated. Israel has done a fantastic job. Are they also commanding the air field? Is their Army (82nd Airborne Div.) providing order and security in order to keep the supplies safe and to get them distributed in a manner so that the fittest don't hog all the goods leaving the weaker (women and children) without?

It is great when a group can focus on and accomplish a much needed service, has the skill and education to do it. Has it dawned on you that our doctors are stretched thin because of Iraq and Afghanistan? It's been this way for a long time now. Why though does that automatically lead to criticism of the US? Let someone else shine. What, you think we're twiddling our thumbs over there?

There's no point in leaving healthy people sitting there who have some place else to go. They use resources that could go to others and become sick/sicker themselves imo.

I do not know what the Israelis are commending but I do know that they were one of the very first to be there, and a plane full of medical and surgeons were sent by the weekend.
I can not even begin to imagine anyone getting to hog anything around anyplace that the Israeli force is stationed. NOP. they are still one of the best Army's in the world. I do know them well, they do not care if Haiti will appreciate the effort or not they are for saving the human spirit in the face of any disaster and they will go anywhere in the world anytime and they have. God Bless them.
God Bless everyone who is doing anything at all to help them. and god bless the poor Haitians may they survive this tragedy, and build only one level housing in the future, and come out stronger as time goes by.