7.0 Earthquake Hits Haiti Hospital Collapses

[LogicalMinds]

Haiti has a very sad history....dictators like "Papa Doc" and "Baby Doc" ran it into the ground, they took everything....they ran with force..the dreaded Tonton Macoutes secret police
it has been one upheaval after another


Haiti has a fairly small island with a lot of people...some of those islands get by with only like 70,000 residents...or 250,000 or whatever...they are not rich, but they have room to have little farms, they have some natural resources (unlike Haiti)....they developed tourism...Haiti has about 9 million people...on a fairly small bit of land, that is mostly mountainous

Haiti's lack of sanitation and "infastructure" make it virtually impossible for tourists...
it is just too dangerous...and risk of disease is high....TB, cholera, disentary, malaria

Illiteracy and lack of schools....lack of jobs...1 in 50 has a job....lack of anything and everything...also a large city (2 million plus before the quake)....with all these problems??

Not to mention that most Haitians speak a dialect that is theirs alone, which isolates them even further....some speak French and/or can understand some French

who learns Creole or speaks Creole but Haiti?

 

[songline]

Please don't misquote me Logical. You didn't read anything in my posts about phones at the airport or anything about the tourist trade or immigration.

That wasn't my argument.

I'm entitled to my opinion and I stick by what I said. The medical relief could have been faster and people have died needlessly. I think in the days to come this will be more evident.
The embassy was not in ruins. If you read my post, I was speaking about the Canadian embassy. Not everything is about Americans you know.

With not communication and no transportation you have none other then the tower of babble. Sorry planes came in from all parts of the world immediately. and many were turned back because the airport was in rubbles. those who could land had no way to get it from the plane to the wherever...It is not as if there was a map and a leader, a phone, or a computer.
Imagine the earth shook under their feet and left them in a hovel. So if it could have gone faster I am sure there were people there smarter then many of us that could not figure it out faster. but they got here within hours of quake settling.
We all wish it could have happened faster, but wishing and doing are worlds apart.

 

[Brwnigirl]

YOu did say that you would prefer your child "sit at the airport" ...the airport is a shambles...right now they have 100 planes going in and out, US air controllers *military...running it

it would be impossible and dangerous for US students/etc to sit there...

you also said that the planes going in there should have had relief supplies in them...but they did

every country got their people out of there....not just the US...have you seen the pics of us citizens on the military plane?? some had to fly in them to get back

the country of Haiti is devastated....and that is a fact, NOT an opinion I am not a doctor, nurse or anything..the best thing for someone like me, the students, probably you, was to get out....just being there might cause unhappy people to storm the airport or something...and they would also be in the way

I respect "opinions" that are opinions...but some things are just facts

Again...have you been to the islands?? they all have rinky dink airports...I have not been to Haitis but I have spoken with friends who went there (for humanitarian reasons NOT tourists)...and it was awful to begin with

I can only imagine it is a real mess now and so busy
the right call...and the only call..was to get the Americans (and other non haitians) out of there and home to their own countries

they are on the verge of a massive health problem...it was vital to get our people out of there before the health problem..and possible civil unrest...start

and yes....just being "Americans" they might have been in danger sitting in an ruined airport...

the real problem now will be the diseases in a country that is so poor and vulnerable>>>

With basic health care and sanitation all but destroyed, and millions of survivors likely left homeless, unchecked infectious disease and contamination will pose a threat to survivors. "In the weeks to come, we may have huge issues with public health," says Pino Annunziata, who is coordinating the emergency response for the World Health Organization in Geneva. "This will be a major concern."

It doesn't help that even on its best day, Haiti is a public-health disaster. It is one of the poorest countries on earth, with only 1 in every 50 Haitians holding a steady job. No Haitian city has a public sewage system, and less than half the population has any access to drinking-water services. Malnutrition is rampant, nearly 200,000 people live with HIV or AIDS, and just half the childhood population is vaccinated against basic diseases like diphtheria. The quake will make it all unimaginably worse.


http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1953379_1953494_1953675,00.html

Cholera...dysentary...malaria.....a never ending stream of sadness

Once again, if you are going to quote me please do it correctly and not out of context. I think I asked the question about Hillary Clinton's plane and if it brought supplies. I also questioned Air Canada/Westjet. To date, I have no information that commercial jets brought supplies. I hope they did.

As for your misquote "that I preferred my child sit at the airport" I didn't say that. I said I would rather have my child give up his seat to save someone's life. You can shoot facts at me all night about the history of Haiti and the increased doom coming its way.I stand by my statement. Who said Haiti wasn't devastated? Not me.

On a side note, I spoke to my son earlier today and asked him what he would have done in that situation. I can't say I was surprised by his reaction which is probably why I have the opinion I do.

You want me to agree with your assessment of the situation at the time. I do not. At the time I wrote that post, there was no civil unrest, the prisoners weren't storming the airport, holding people at gunpoint and I have seen worse than the conditions at the airport than when I made that statement. We can talk about "'what ifs all day".
I don't agree with your "facts", and that's ok/

 

[LogicalMinds]

GREAT POST. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Yes the eyes of the world are watching and I hope the Haitian people will have better then they have had.
but I think once we have saved them, and helped heal them, and feed them their government will be no different then what it has been. JMHO but it is not the natives fault so the world has to step in right now. Clinton says we can rebuild Haiti, OD I hope he is right, but can the government change? well in that lies an entire different conversation and MO is I doubt it.I doubt it

Hard to say isn't it?? I don't know...and I don't pretend to know.

Haiti has been poor for so long...just an endless stream of misery

Anyone in south florida can think of the many sad scenes we watch on tv....tons of Haitians on rickety boats turned away...

Haitians drowned when their little rafts overturn....and so on and on

Right now all we can do is all we can do....there is so much suffering there..

I think the world is doing the best they can...there are so many obstacles...lack of any infastructure...water....a rinky dink airport...
and a ton of people who speak a language that mostly no one else has bothered to learn...

I guess the French and French Canadians can get in there to translate hopefully...they can probably understand each other somewhat and some of the Haitans speak French and most speak some French

I am not hearing anything good from Lynn U. It is so sad...they went there to help...and now....they are in the Hotel Montana and time is ticking away

Now the big threat will be the diseases

 

[songline]

Anderson Cooper reporting that physicians with Doctors Without Borders have been rerouted and could not land in Haiti. Yet, a politician was able to get in today.

Hmmn.

geshhhhh what is really going on? Don't they want Medical help and save their own people?

My head is spinning.
I spoke with a Haitian woman today and I was left with my Jaws in my lap...she said part of her family is OK there (alive) the other part she is still waiting to hear, and she thinks where they were they should be safe
BUT THEN SHE ADDED and that flipped me out. "The rest of them can fall in the Ocean and I do not care".
I asked her why and she said you don't know those people, and you don't want to.
My head is in a spin, my jaw is in my lap and after we save the living I want to understand more.
HOW CAN ANYOME IN POWER let the sick go untreated? How can this be? :waitasec:

 

[Brwnigirl]

With not communication and no transportation you have none other then the tower of babble. Sorry planes came in from all parts of the world immediately. and many were turned back because the airport was in rubbles. those who could land had no way to get it from the plane to the wherever...It is not as if there was a map and a leader, a phone, or a computer.
Imagine the earth shook under their feet and left them in a hovel. So if it could have gone faster I am sure there were people there smarter then many of us that could not figure it out faster. but they got here within hours of quake settling.
We all wish it could have happened faster, but wishing and doing are worlds apart.

Really? Not trying to be combative song, but it seems to me that there wasn't a lot of coordination. Maybe there were some smart people but they were not making organized decisions.

And no they did not all get there within hours of the quake. As of 8pm tonight, doctors without borders cannot get in.
The earth isn't shaking now.

I believe everyone in Haiti has their heart in the right place. But when you find out people died because there was not a properly coordinated effort it is expected that some might question procedures and hope to do better in the future. Maybe it will save more lives the next time there is a tsunami/earthquake/hurricane.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Once again, if you are going to quote me please do it correctly and not out of context. I think I asked the question about Hillary Clinton's plane and if it brought supplies. I also questioned Air Canada/Westjet. To date, I have no information that commercial jets brought supplies. I hope they did.

As for your misquote "that I preferred my child sit at the airport" I didn't say that. I said I would rather have my child give up his seat to save someone's life. You can shoot facts at me all night about the history of Haiti and the increased doom coming its way.I stand by my statement. Who said Haiti wasn't devastated? Not me.

On a side note, I spoke to my son earlier today and asked him what he would have done in that situation. I can't say I was surprised by his reaction which is probably why I have the opinion I do.

You want me to agree with your assessment of the situation at the time. I do not. At the time I wrote that post, there was no civil unrest, the prisoners weren't storming the airport, holding people at gunpoint and I have seen worse than the conditions at the airport than when I made that statement. We can talk about "'what ifs all day".
I don't agree with your "facts", and that's ok/

Well...they were taken out of there for their own safety but also for the general safety...and so that the military/strategy teams had one less thing to worry about
as your son would have been evacuated like it or not

I don't think they even had the option to "give up their seat"...they are a danger and a liablity to the rescue teams, military, and supply teams coming in

also...yes, being American in any situation like this would be considered a potential "risk" for an angry mob
which was bound to happen....instead of saving a life they might cause a riot just by being there with food/water

not to mention that Haiti already has all these diseases and has had malaria outbreaks, cholera outbreaks after every tropical storm or huricane
so we know that is coming....not worth the risk ...who would care for the students if they contract something??? They did the right thing

and frankly I think that given the huge logistical nightmare, the military etc are doing a good job

 

[Brwnigirl]

there was no angry mob, there still isn't. One isolated incident reported today, some boys stealing candles from a store.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Really? Not trying to be combative song, but it seems to me that there wasn't a lot of coordination. Maybe there were some smart people but they were not making organized decisions.

And no they did not all get there within hours of the quake. As of 8pm tonight, doctors without borders cannot get in.
The earth isn't shaking now.

I believe everyone in Haiti has their heart in the right place. But when you find out people died because there was not a properly coordinated effort it is expected that some might question procedures and hope to do better in the future. Maybe it will save more lives the next time there is a tsunami/earthquake/hurricane.

How to "coordinate"....when the whole place is in shambles....the little airport was messed up and for a day or two had no air traffic controllers...

who to coordinate with?? the presidential palace is gone, the "parliment" or whatever is gone....the UN lost a ton of people....the embassies were destroyed, many embassy workers from various contries killed

the prison was damaged...but not flattened....and 4000 approx are on the loose...

all of this in a country with no regular buses, electricity, or much of anything....the poorest country in the western hemisphere

Drive it up from Dom Republic?? They are trying that...but roads are bad and many damaged even more by quake

who could coordinate that?? The UN headquarters would have been the likely ones ...but so many killed there and missing and their buildings are flattened

BTW.....the airport was always ONLY operational in the day due to lack of electricity

 

[songline]

Hard to say isn't it?? I don't know...and I don't pretend to know.

Haiti has been poor for so long...just an endless stream of misery

Anyone in south Florida can think of the many sad scenes we watch on tv....tons of Haitians on rickety boats turned away...

Haitians drowned when their little rafts overturn....and so on and on

Right now all we can do is all we can do....there is so much suffering there..

I think the world is doing the best they can...there are so many obstacles...lack of any infastructure...water....a rinky dink airport...
and a ton of people who speak a language that mostly no one else has bothered to learn...

I guess the French and French Canadians can get in there to translate hopefully...they can probably understand each other somewhat and some of the Haitans speak French and most speak some French

I am not hearing anything good from Lynn U. It is so sad...they went there to help...and now....they are in the Hotel Montana and time is ticking away

Now the big threat will be the diseases

You know so much about that region and I am so grateful to all the information you have posted here.
I try so hard to understand. I am frustrated, sad, and sometimes even very angry when doctors are turned away, or volunteers are sent packing. It makes me crazy :crazy: because the world is doing it's best to help. Perhaps it is the lack of language that adds to the communication breakdown too, perhaps the french speaking will help to make them understand, trust and allow the generosity of the world in.
I sure hope they do not fear that all the powers that be will try to take over. nobody wants Haiti we just want to save them and go.

I am not yet ready to give up on the Montana. Miracles are known to happen and people have been saved from wreckage up to 2 weeks later.
LETS HOPE... Lets continue to hope, as sad as it really is, we must never give up till there is no choice.
They are our children.

 

[LogicalMinds]

there was no angry mob, there still isn't. One isolated incident reported today, some boys stealing candles from a store.

I have not said there is an angry mob....but you can't have americans sitting in a shattered little airport eating and drinking while people starve outside...

also they are running so many flights in and out of there...they would really be in the way.....sorry but your idea that they should "give up their seat" mght feel good or sound good...but it was impossible and for many good reasons all of which I have listed

It would have been nice to "airlift" or drop supplies...but the mountains and the heavily populated city made that impossible

it would have been nice to have had some hospitals in other parts of the country and roads to take them to them...for instance "Labadee" is not damaged by the quake...but it has no hospital etc

It would be nice to run flights in 24 hours a day...but oh well...Haiti had no electricty at the airport before the quake and they sure don't now

 

[Brwnigirl]

How to "coordinate"....when the whole place is in shambles....the little airport was messed up and for a day or two had no air traffic controllers...

who to coordinate with?? the presidential palace is gone, the "parliment" or whatever is gone....the UN lost a ton of people....the embassies were destroyed, many embassy workers from various contries killed

the prison was damaged...but not flattened....and 4000 approx are on the loose...

all of this in a country with no regular buses, electricity, or much of anything....the poorest country in the western hemisphere

Drive it up from Dom Republic?? They are trying that...but roads are bad and many damaged even more by quake

who could coordinate that?? The UN headquarters would have been the likely ones ...but so many killed there and missing and their buildings are flattened

BTW.....the airport was always ONLY operational in the day due to lack of electricity

How to coordinate you ask? Well that would be a question for Hillary Clinton and the politician who got the orphans out today, maybe Wyclef Jean, maybe CNN. They all got in. Seems the airport wasn't in too much of a "shambles" for them to get in.

Seems they were very well coordinated and good for them but sad for others

Why is there no neurosurgeon on the USS Carl Vinson? I am not asking that question, but I just heard CNN journalist/neurosurgeon, Sanjay Gupta ask that after being called to perform surgery on the ship.

 

[Brwnigirl]

I have not said there is an angry mob....but you can't have americans sitting in a shattered little airport eating and drinking while people starve outside...

also they are running so many flights in and out of there...they would really be in the way.....sorry but your idea that they should "give up their seat" mght feel good or sound good...but it was impossible and for many good reasons all of which I have listed

It would have been nice to "airlift" or drop supplies...but the mountains and the heavily populated city made that impossible

it would have been nice to have had some hospitals in other parts of the country and roads to take them to them...for instance "Labadee" is not damaged by the quake...but it has no hospital etc

It would be nice to run flights in 24 hours a day...but oh well...Haiti had no electricty at the airport before the quake and they sure don't now

Logical, this is really getting irritating. If you want to have a debate, stop making stuff up. Can you please go back and read post #235 so for the third time you can stop misrepresenting what I say.

I never said I had a feel good idea that people should give up their own seats. You specifically asked me about my own child and I responded to you about what I would want my child to do and what I would do. Don't make it into a general statement or opinion that I hold about everyone's child so you can argue against it.

 

[LogicalMinds]

How to coordinate you ask? Well that would be a question for Hillary Clinton and the politician who got the orphans out today, maybe Wyclef Jean, maybe CNN. They all got in. Seems the airport wasn't in too much of a "shambles" for them to get in.

Seems they were very well coordinated and good for them but sad for others

Why is there no neurosurgeon on the USS Carl Vinson? I am not asking that question, but I just heard CNN journalist/neurosurgeon, Sanjay Gupta ask that after being called to perform surgery on the ship.

The airport is in better shape now with US military running it...they had to get people in there to do the air traffic controller job also

Hillary , the "politician" and Wyclef Jean all "got in" because their appearance might help spur more donations..and perhaps they "got in" so that they could coordinate

as far as a "neurosurgeon">> JMO Gupta is asking that so that he has a future "investigative" special

want to know the truth IMHO?? They don't have the facilities for someone to recover from brain surgery....they don't have iv bags...they don't have hospitals...they don't have rehab centers....a person who had successful brain surgery will die a few days later from lack of after care

so it is called "triage"...save those that you think have the best shot of living...set bones....sew up wounds....pass out antibiotics...give them a water bottle and pray and hope for the best

perhaps not pretty but truthful

 

[LogicalMinds]

A very good article from Canada regarding the infectious diseases that might happen next...also a good point that many who are treated will succumb to infection from their wounds cause of lack of clean water and antibiotics

http://chealth.canoe.ca/channel_hea...ews_id=29872&news_channel_id=16&channel_id=16

 

[songline]

How to "coordinate"....when the whole place is in shambles....the little airport was messed up and for a day or two had no air traffic controllers...

who to coordinate with?? the presidential palace is gone, the "parliment" or whatever is gone....the UN lost a ton of people....the embassies were destroyed, many embassy workers from various contries killed

the prison was damaged...but not flattened....and 4000 approx are on the loose...

all of this in a country with no regular buses, electricity, or much of anything....the poorest country in the western hemisphere

Drive it up from Dom Republic?? They are trying that...but roads are bad and many damaged even more by quake

who could coordinate that?? The UN headquarters would have been the likely ones ...but so many killed there and missing and their buildings are flattened

BTW.....the airport was always ONLY operational in the day due to lack of electricity

I totally agree, but I have to say that up until we had a 9/11 on our own land people did not understand terrorism NO they did not, I do not care what they tell you they had not one clue. that is a fact.
Same here...Americans for the most part have not been to many parts of the world NO They have not.
AND America has been the safest land of all for many many generations. They can not begin to comprehend all of his NO THEY CAN NOT. I do not care what they tell you they just can not. And those who have traveled for the most part went to fun places and why not it is their vacation
In most countries there has been a war. Here we have a great army that goes to HELP OTHER LANDS on their soil not ours (Thank you God) but on our soil we have been blessed.
They can read history, hear war stories and it is NOT the same. It is not.
So trying to tell people that getting the meds that actually finally did land to any destination after circling on the air for 6 hours or a day, and then had NO transportation to move it to the needy is nothing that most can comprehend. Reading here should validate what I am saying.

I can go within NY to and talk to thousands of people who have never left their own neighborhood neither did their grandparents, there are people across the bridge in New Jersey that have never been as far as New York, I can tell you that there are people in this country that were shocked when they met me and found out I was Jewish and said to me "that can not be you are so nice".
So let us not assume that most people can even comprehend the magnitude of this horrific Natural cataclysm. They can not.

I appreciate what you do know that I do not know, I appreciate it but it does not change my frustration or sadness or anger at times.
I had similar talks with people during 9/11 who wanted to know why the fire department went into a burning building, etc......They wanted to know why we do not have a list of who is alive and who is missing? It took days, and weeks to gather that information. But they were used to a very tidy country blessed by a privilege of living in the USA, the soil that never knew a war. Our wars have always been else where.

 

[songline]

A very good article from Canada regarding the infectious diseases that might happen next...also a good point that many who are treated will succumb to infection from their wounds cause of lack of clean water and antibiotics

http://chealth.canoe.ca/channel_hea...ews_id=29872&news_channel_id=16&channel_id=16

While we do know that, I cant handle it I am overwhelmed with just finding the missing and helping the living.
It is all true and very sad

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Really? Not trying to be combative song, but it seems to me that there wasn't a lot of coordination.

OK no offence but HOW can there be coordination right now?? This was the worst disaster since Katrina, if not worse, we are six days out, and they are still pulling survivors, How can there be coordination, when there are so many victims???

Truthfully, I beleive they are doing the best they can with what they have. Its not easy. And mistakes will be made. It could be alot worse right now, with no help from the US whatsoever!!!

I just try to be greatful for what we ARE doing, rather then trying to find faults and stuff we are NOT doing! People are going to find faults in anything and everything we do. I try not to be one of those people!

 

[songline]

How to coordinate you ask? Well that would be a question for Hillary Clinton and the politician who got the orphans out today, maybe Wyclef Jean, maybe CNN. They all got in. Seems the airport wasn't in too much of a "shambles" for them to get in.

Seems they were very well coordinated and good for them but sad for others

Why is there no neurosurgeon on the USS Carl Vinson? I am not asking that question, but I just heard CNN journalist/neurosurgeon, Sanjay Gupta ask that after being called to perform surgery on the ship.

FACT- Israel sent in a plane full of surgeons this weekend with medical supplies and equipment.
FACT: Doctors work on people they CAN save not those who do not stand a chance.
FACT: we lost almost a week in getting enough plans to land with goodies for survival because the Air port has just become functional now.
FACT: Hillary Clinton does not co-ordinate disasters in the physical way, She cant get transportation moving she can advise, and I am sure she did she could not get in till Saturday today is Monday.
And yes San Jay Gupta ahas weathered many many challenges since he is there. BLESS HIS HEART.

 

[songline]

OK no offence but HOW can there be coordination right now?? This was the worst disaster since Katrina, if not worse, we are six days out, and they are still pulling survivors, How can there be coordination, when there are so many victims???

Truthfully, I beleive they are doing the best they can with what they have. Its not easy. And mistakes will be made. It could be alot worse right now, with no help from the US whatsoever!!!

I just try to be greatful for what we ARE doing, rather then trying to find faults and stuff we are NOT doing! People are going to find faults in anything and everything we do. I try not to be one of those people!

GREAT POST :clap: :clap: :clap: