7.0 Earthquake Hits Haiti Hospital Collapses

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Really? Not trying to be combative song, but it seems to me that there wasn't a lot of coordination. Maybe there were some smart people but they were not making organized decisions.

And no they did not all get there within hours of the quake. As of 8pm tonight, doctors without borders cannot get in.
The earth isn't shaking now.

I believe everyone in Haiti has their heart in the right place. But when you find out people died because there was not a properly coordinated effort it is expected that some might question procedures and hope to do better in the future. Maybe it will save more lives the next time there is a tsunami/earthquake/hurricane.
I do not know why Doctors without boarders is not in yet. I do know there are some doctors there and finally today the airport is functional.
I also know that transporting is a challenge, and I also know that the terrain is a challenge.The language barrier is a challenge. YEAS the entire catastrophe is a challenge, and you want it to run smoothly?:waitasec:
I hope it will run smoother every day. but run smoothly in a 3rd world country? :waitasec: is nothing short of wishful thinking.
 
And here is proof that we are getting the critically injured into our hospitals..right here in South Florida

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/haiti/fl-haiti-medicine-20100118,0,3922993.story

So far, South Florida hospitals have taken in 100 of the injured from Haiti, and the number will climb fast as treatment and military evacuations grow more organized, said Jeanne Eckes-Roper, preparedness director at Broward Health and regional disaster coordinator for South Florida hospitals. Two more flights were expected late Monday.

Surgeons in and back from Haiti described horrific conditions, as well as an outpouring of South Florida aid.

"All of our doctors are in tears," University of Miami surgeon Barth Green, one of the first doctors to arrive after the quake, told WPLG-TV. His group, the MediShare Project, is now operating in two large tents at the main airport.

"People were dying literally every minute. We were doing amputations on kitchen tables. We're amputating hundreds of limbs a day. The smell of dying flesh is overwhelming," Green said. "It's just heartbreaking but it's also heartwarming to see how America cares so much about its neighbor that's an hour away."


It is easy to second guess, monday morning quarterback and so on...but this is just such a huge disaster in such a poor country, it is a nightmare

God Bless those who are doing what they can

Sun Sentinel has really good coverage...on left side of the page

a lady from Pembroke Pines (suburb of Ft Lauderdale) was just rescued from the
"supermarket"...those people had some fruit chews and ? something to drink things that fell off the shelves....what a story! Wow...just gives me chills
 
How to coordinate you ask? Well that would be a question for Hillary Clinton and the politician who got the orphans out today, maybe Wyclef Jean, maybe CNN. They all got in. Seems the airport wasn't in too much of a "shambles" for them to get in.

Seems they were very well coordinated and good for them but sad for others :(

Why is there no neurosurgeon on the USS Carl Vinson? I am not asking that question, but I just heard CNN journalist/neurosurgeon, Sanjay Gupta ask that after being called to perform surgery on the ship.

The USS Carl Vinson is not a hospital ship but rather an operational aircraft carrier. Their main purpose there was to deliver supplies. Perhaps you are confusing it with the USS Comfort, which is a fully staffed medical ship that is expected to arrive on Wednesday I believe.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2010/s2794375.htm
 
OK no offence but HOW can there be coordination right now?? This was the worst disaster since Katrina, if not worse, we are six days out, and they are still pulling survivors, How can there be coordination, when there are so many victims???

Truthfully, I beleive they are doing the best they can with what they have. Its not easy. And mistakes will be made. It could be alot worse right now, with no help from the US whatsoever!!!

I just try to be greatful for what we ARE doing, rather then trying to find faults and stuff we are NOT doing! People are going to find faults in anything and everything we do. I try not to be one of those people!

I am sure they are doing the best with what they have. I am simply following the news reports from CNN about the lack of coordination and the unneccessary deaths.
You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine but don't assume I am ungrateful because I question procedures and organization.
You don't know me.
 
The USS Carl Vinson is not a hospital ship but rather an operational aircraft carrier. Their main purpose there was to deliver supplies. Perhaps you are confusing it with the USS Comfort, which is a fully staffed medical ship that is expected to arrive on Wednesday I believe.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2010/s2794375.htm

Sorry if I got that wrong. I was referring to the ship that Dr. Gupta did brain surgery on. It was his question, not mine.
 
The airport is in better shape now with US military running it...they had to get people in there to do the air traffic controller job also

Hillary , the "politician" and Wyclef Jean all "got in" because their appearance might help spur more donations..and perhaps they "got in" so that they could coordinate

as far as a "neurosurgeon">> JMO Gupta is asking that so that he has a future "investigative" special

want to know the truth IMHO?? They don't have the facilities for someone to recover from brain surgery....they don't have iv bags...they don't have hospitals...they don't have rehab centers....a person who had successful brain surgery will die a few days later from lack of after care

so it is called "triage"...save those that you think have the best shot of living...set bones....sew up wounds....pass out antibiotics...give them a water bottle and pray and hope for the best

perhaps not pretty but truthful

Very unfair comment about Sanjay Gupta. He stayed behind while other UN doctors were evacuated. He has done a number of medical procedures while he has been there away from cameras. He made that comment on a day where he had performed brain surgery on a girl who had been suffering with shrapnel stuck in her head since the earthquake.
I find it really shocking that you applaud everyone else's efforts in Haiti but are questioning his motives;he has saved lives.
 
Woe: I don't think I am venting. It is my honest opinion and it is my own frustration.
Just because there is criticism does not mean someone is sitting on their butt just putting down every person over there helping.

I donated the first day. I am not a surgeon or a doctor or an engineer.
My particular skill set is not one that is required at this time but I am told may be in the very near future and I am ready to go if needed. However, that doesn't mean I will not be crticizing the situation. Should we just have sat back and shut up and been grateful for what we got in Katrina? No.

I applaud everyone's efforts but we have to learn from our mistakes in each disaster, people are dying for no good reason. Why is it ok for journalists to be analyzing the medical relief effort and being critical but a WS poster gets blasted for it? Are you watching the news, it is being reported by doctors who are there helping and they are expressing the same frustrations, but that's ok because they're there?

This board is for opinions, you don't always have to agree but we should respect each other's opinions.

I know it's frustrating. I don't know what gets into me sometimes (the butt comment) - sorry. There's nothing I can do to help other than to donate and to pray either. Organizations, countries, media and individuals are all trying to do their best imo.

Maybe because every natural disaster is different and involves varied circumstances, for instance, Haiti is not in the US and so many more people are critically injured than during Katrina, it's not an instant repeat for responders. Each tragedy is like reinventing the wheel. Consider what a great job any firefighting team does but, depending on the type of fire, they either put the fire out quickly and save lives or they cannot and someone may perish in the fire. We have faith that they did their best and would not question them when things don't turn out as well as we would have liked.

The responders are risking their own lives and they are doing their best. The circumstances could not be worse if you ask me. If it were my husband responding, I'd know that whatever his duty was he'd do it to the best of his ability. Nobody can go in there and lift tons of concrete off the ground to reveal survivors. That has got to be killing the rescuers too. They will likely be traumatized too. I can't imagine what it's like for the Doctors to be helpless to fix people because they haven't been provided the equipment that's necessary to do so. They are my heroes for hanging in there and doing what they are able to do.

One thing though, we didn't blame another country when the Katrina rescue went badly - we blamed our own leadership. Now it seems that Haiti is America's fault too. :banghead:
 
Sorry if I got that wrong. I was referring to the ship that Dr. Gupta did brain surgery on. It was his question, not mine.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta discusses the surgery he lead on a 12-year-old Haitian girl aboard the USS Vinson.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2010/01/18/bpr.haiti.gupta.operates.cnn


The Navy has one General Surgeon on board, which they normally carry and somewhat limited medical facilities intended to care for and treat the 5000 or so sailors on the ship. There did happen to be one Pediatric Surgeon that was visiting the ship to help out. The Vinson was there to deliver supplies and perform medical evacuations "within" the country but are taking some patients on board the carrier that can't be treated at other medical facilities within the country.

While I greatly admire Dr. Gupta and the good he has been doing in Haiti, this is one time that IMO he asked a very stupid question because he KNEW he was on an aircraft carrier that would not normally have a neurosurgeon on board, and not on the Navy medical ship that most likely has a neurosurgeon on board. JMO
 
Regarding Dr. Gupta and Anderson Cooper (but especially the good Doctor), they need a break. They've been there almost since day one. It must seem like an eternity to them especially since nothing has changed very much. I'm impressed with Gupta's devotion to doing whatever he can to help people. AC is a good egg too imo. He seems like a nice guy. They're not seeing it from the outside - they're in the thick of things. They know how it feels to them but possibly don't have the overall picture. I heard AC cough several times. Time for him to come home imo.
 
Anderson Cooper reporting that physicians with Doctors Without Borders have been rerouted and could not land in Haiti. Yet, a politician was able to get in today.

Hmmn.


Doctors Without Borders are there in Haiti already.

http://tinyurl.com/yddqgfq

(snipped from article)

Doctors Without Borders said Sunday that, despite guarantees from the United Nations and the U.S. Defense Department, its cargo plane carrying an inflatable surgical hospital was blocked from landing in Port-au-Prince the day before and was rerouted to Samana, Dominican Republic.


The material was being sent by truck from Samana, said the group, also known in French as Médecins Sans Frontières. However, the re-routing added a 24-hour delay to the hospital's arrival.

A second Doctors Without Borders plane was able to land on Sunday. That plane carried additional medical supplies and hospital equipment, the group said, adding it is still concerned about delays in the delivery of vital supplies.

"MSF (Doctors without Borders) teams are currently working around the clock in five different hospitals in Port-au-Prince, but only two operating theaters are fully functional, while a third operating theater has been improvised for minor surgery due to the massive influx of wounded and lack of functional referral structures," the organization said.

The group said two of its medical teams have performed more than 100 operations since arriving in the country, but frustrations are high over the delays.

Planes are asked to divert elsewhere if they don't have the fuel to stay in a holding pattern, Col. Buck Elton of U. S. Special Operations Command South told reporters Sunday. Only two planes had been diverted Sunday, he said.

Asked about the matter on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday, Lt. Gen. P.K. Keen, deputy commander of U.S. Southern Command, said the Port-au-Prince airport, which is being run by the U.S. military, is operating at maximum capacity 24 hours a day. "It's a matter of balance between getting relief supplies on the ground, getting the people on the ground that are necessary to get those relief supplies distributed, and getting the logistical capacity on the ground to continue that, and the vehicles so we can get it out by ground as well as by air," he said.

http://tinyurl.com/onyan94

But with thousands of tons of aid heading into Haiti, the airport in Port-au-Prince "can't handle all the aid that's coming through," Belanger said.
The U.S. military has been helping Haitian authorities direct air traffic around Port-au-Prince, said Capt. John Kirby, a spokesman for the U.S. Joint Task Force Haiti. But he said "literally hundreds" of flights are trying to land at Port-au-Prince, which has "one tarmac, one runway, one ramp for all the aircraft."
"It is a sheer volume issue," he said. "There are more planes that want to land here than we can accommodate in any given hour."

Also regarding Hillary Clinton getting to land in Haiti.

http://tinyurl.com/pfon5bn

The U.S. Coast Guard plane she arrived on was carrying 100 cases of water, 100 cases of meals-ready-to-eat, and food and toiletries for about 140 U.S. Embassy staff members. Fifty Americans, who have been waiting to be evacuated, will fly back to the United States when Clinton departs.

The other politician that arrived (sorry can't think of his name right now) is also a trained medical Doctor that was delivering medical supplies with plans to work in Haiti as part of the rescue effort with a medical relief organization he is a part of. (Will look for article again and provide link)

Sorry, not picking on you but just wanted to point out that these are prime examples of some of the less than "fully" truthful news reports on situations which tend to unnecessarily enrage and frustrate people and make the relief effort look bad. JMO
 
Landing at any minute, in Pittsburgh. 53 orphans 41 already adopted)
from Haiti.
On local news.
wpxi.com
 
Landing at any minute, in Pittsburgh. 53 orphans 41 already adopted)
from Haiti.
On local news.
wpxi.com

That is good to hear...and oddly gives me a good feeling for Dr Rich..who like me is a (former) Pittsburgher

We have social groups here for "us"...watched the super bowl together last year...we even have 2 Primanti Bros restaurants here

It is good to think that kids are going to Pittsburgh....Rich was dedicated to helping that poor poor country....how fitting to bring some kids there
(just bundle them up....cold weather will be a shock LOL)
 
Thanks for info on Vinson vs Comfort..I "knew" something was not "right" with the info before...I am sure once the Comfort pulls in that things will speed up

I do admire Gupta's efforts..but I will say that I think that news stations have become
used to covering disasters with a very critical eye, it brings ratings and gives people something to talk about over the water cooler

I have been thru huricaines...during Andrew I was very active in going down to Miami and volunteering, I even set up a newsletter for them and got local printers to print it,
and local radio station to distribute it. This was before the "internet" LOL

I also was active in finding the price gougers and the state used my reports

remember, that was the first and worst huricane and we were NOT prepared for it...and yes, there was public outcry "where are the troops??"...etc

and yes, Katrina was a logistical and organizational disaster...one of the dumbest things was giving people "debit cards" of cash that they spent on booze, drugs, designer handbags...just dumb

But then again NO had a bad infastructure and a poor population to start with...now imagine an infastructure 20 times worse and people 20 times poorer, more people who can't read or write, people with existing health problems, 90% of the kids with parasites,
and add in a language problem - they speak basically an island version of French that ONLY they speak...no one else learns creole...how do you find a translator??

what a mess

However, whatever and whoever helps them, God Bless...I know how it feels to be without power for weeks...I have stood in line for ice and been grateful for Fema food boxes and I live in a nice suburb..so I can only imagine that it is so so much worse there

The first responders are there out of the goodness of their hearts...I saw a picture of some of our South Florida firefighters who had pulled people from the concrete, they were sitting there looking so dejected and sad cause they were not able to get them all

it is just overwhelming, beyond imagination.....I do appreciate what Gupta is doing but I just hope that this does not get into a finger pointing, muckracking "we shoulda coulda woulda" deal...it really won't help...and JMO those who venture into that poor land need all the confidence and support we can muster...

the pictures are simply heartbreaking...I can't imagine the smell of death..the heat, the bugs...the disease
 
I know it's frustrating. I don't know what gets into me sometimes (the butt comment) - sorry. There's nothing I can do to help other than to donate and to pray either. Organizations, countries, media and individuals are all trying to do their best imo.

Maybe because every natural disaster is different and involves varied circumstances, for instance, Haiti is not in the US and so many more people are critically injured than during Katrina, it's not an instant repeat for responders. Each tragedy is like reinventing the wheel. Consider what a great job any firefighting team does but, depending on the type of fire, they either put the fire out quickly and save lives or they cannot and someone may perish in the fire. We have faith that they did their best and would not question them when things don't turn out as well as we would have liked.

The responders are risking their own lives and they are doing their best. The circumstances could not be worse if you ask me. If it were my husband responding, I'd know that whatever his duty was he'd do it to the best of his ability. Nobody can go in there and lift tons of concrete off the ground to reveal survivors. That has got to be killing the rescuers too. They will likely be traumatized too. I can't imagine what it's like for the Doctors to be helpless to fix people because they haven't been provided the equipment that's necessary to do so. They are my heroes for hanging in there and doing what they are able to do.

One thing though, we didn't blame another country when the Katrina rescue went badly - we blamed our own leadership. Now it seems that Haiti is America's fault too. :banghead:

I was not blaming the US, and I hope you didn't get that from my posts which were misquoted throughout this thread. I felt Canada could have done a few things differently too and my remarks on the embassy and West Jet/Air Canada were based on Canadian procedures not US.

Again I think everyone is doing their best and we can learn from this for the future. I am frustrated people have died, I am sure everyone is and we're going to have more disasters.

There is a lot of help in the world, I hope it can be better coordinated in the future and I think that is possible if we take the time to learn from it.
 
Doctors Without Borders are there in Haiti already.


(snipped from article)

Doctors Without Borders said Sunday that, despite guarantees from the United Nations and the U.S. Defense Department, its cargo plane carrying an inflatable surgical hospital was blocked from landing in Port-au-Prince the day before and was rerouted to Samana, Dominican Republic.


The material was being sent by truck from Samana, said the group, also known in French as Médecins Sans Frontières. However, the re-routing added a 24-hour delay to the hospital's arrival.

A second Doctors Without Borders plane was able to land on Sunday. That plane carried additional medical supplies and hospital equipment, the group said, adding it is still concerned about delays in the delivery of vital supplies.

"MSF (Doctors without Borders) teams are currently working around the clock in five different hospitals in Port-au-Prince, but only two operating theaters are fully functional, while a third operating theater has been improvised for minor surgery due to the massive influx of wounded and lack of functional referral structures," the organization said.

The group said two of its medical teams have performed more than 100 operations since arriving in the country, but frustrations are high over the delays.

Planes are asked to divert elsewhere if they don't have the fuel to stay in a holding pattern, Col. Buck Elton of U. S. Special Operations Command South told reporters Sunday. Only two planes had been diverted Sunday, he said.

Asked about the matter on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday, Lt. Gen. P.K. Keen, deputy commander of U.S. Southern Command, said the Port-au-Prince airport, which is being run by the U.S. military, is operating at maximum capacity 24 hours a day. "It's a matter of balance between getting relief supplies on the ground, getting the people on the ground that are necessary to get those relief supplies distributed, and getting the logistical capacity on the ground to continue that, and the vehicles so we can get it out by ground as well as by air," he said.


But with thousands of tons of aid heading into Haiti, the airport in Port-au-Prince "can't handle all the aid that's coming through," Belanger said.
The U.S. military has been helping Haitian authorities direct air traffic around Port-au-Prince, said Capt. John Kirby, a spokesman for the U.S. Joint Task Force Haiti. But he said "literally hundreds" of flights are trying to land at Port-au-Prince, which has "one tarmac, one runway, one ramp for all the aircraft."
"It is a sheer volume issue," he said. "There are more planes that want to land here than we can accommodate in any given hour."

Also regarding Hillary Clinton getting to land in Haiti.


The U.S. Coast Guard plane she arrived on was carrying 100 cases of water, 100 cases of meals-ready-to-eat, and food and toiletries for about 140 U.S. Embassy staff members. Fifty Americans, who have been waiting to be evacuated, will fly back to the United States when Clinton departs.

The other politician that arrived (sorry can't think of his name right now) is also a trained medical Doctor that was delivering medical supplies with plans to work in Haiti as part of the rescue effort with a medical relief organization he is a part of. (Will look for article again and provide link)

Sorry, not picking on you but just wanted to point out that these are prime examples of some of the less than "fully" truthful news reports on situations which tend to unnecessarily enrage and frustrate people and make the relief effort look bad. JMO

Yes I knew Doctors without Borders was already there and was referring to additional teams. The remark was more about who has priority to land and who has to wait. That may be logistics. I hope it is but I am not the only one questioning it. Just seem to be the only one getting hammered for questioning anything on this board.
 
CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta discusses the surgery he lead on a 12-year-old Haitian girl aboard the USS Vinson.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2010/01/18/bpr.haiti.gupta.operates.cnn


The Navy has one General Surgeon on board, which they normally carry and somewhat limited medical facilities intended to care for and treat the 5000 or so sailors on the ship. There did happen to be one Pediatric Surgeon that was visiting the ship to help out. The Vinson was there to deliver supplies and perform medical evacuations "within" the country but are taking some patients on board the carrier that can't be treated at other medical facilities within the country.

While I greatly admire Dr. Gupta and the good he has been doing in Haiti, this is one time that IMO he asked a very stupid question because he KNEW he was on an aircraft carrier that would not normally have a neurosurgeon on board, and not on the Navy medical ship that most likely has a neurosurgeon on board. JMO

I for one will cut him some slack, he is just trying to make things better and has had some very very long days there.
 
What I don't understand is why their immediate neighbor- the other half of the island- the Dominican Republic hasn't been of more help. Why do people have to be flown to the U.S. for treatment? Why can't they get the victims to hospitals in the Dominican Republic and get water and food more immediately from them faster than countries further away can provide???:waitasec:
Their immediate neighbor is a poor small island and they are doing quite a bit. Many have been transported there, and many just showed up. we must not just point fingers at that tinny island, I don't see value in that.
 
Escaping the Capital as Help Is Arriving

<<<SNIP>>>

&#8220;It is astonishing what they&#8217;re accomplishing,&#8221; said Mr. Clinton, emerging from a tour of Haiti&#8217;s general hospital, which has been overwhelmed with patients. They filled its rooms and hallways, and even open areas in the yard outside. Mr. Clinton said he heard of vodka being used to sterilize and of operations performed without lights.

More at link>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/world/americas/19haiti.html

While many are leaving as fast as they can and who can blame them? there is still amazing work being done there.
The military is really needed so that some business owners can open up without the desperate coming in to harm them.
the chaos is still there but it is getting a little better every day. :)
 
Really? Not trying to be combative song, but it seems to me that there wasn't a lot of coordination. Maybe there were some smart people but they were not making organized decisions.

And no they did not all get there within hours of the quake. As of 8pm tonight, doctors without borders cannot get in.
The earth isn't shaking now.

I believe everyone in Haiti has their heart in the right place. But when you find out people died because there was not a properly coordinated effort it is expected that some might question procedures and hope to do better in the future. Maybe it will save more lives the next time there is a tsunami/earthquake/hurricane.

There is no next time in a Natural disaster. Because every single terrain is different, and so is every single government and civilization. No other place is like this place and using any former experience is very good in degrees, but it can never assist in any transportation if there is NO transportation available at all. From air to sea and land they were devastated.
So if you believe that you have better answers I DO hope they nominate you for the solution.
I think the world came together faster then ever, I think Haiti is getting whatever can be gotten, but moving it all around with no communications and transportation is not something we should be attacking
or blaming anyone for. :(
And when another earthquake happens someplace in the world it will not be the same condition, or the same terrain.
What the world did learn from Katrina and the Tsunami is to move faster and we did.
KUDOS for all who moved as fast as they can...The fact that once they got there they had problems is not un-natural. That may always occur - that s why we call it a catastrophe.
I think post #411 by Melly53 is very helpful. You can begin to see how miscommunication can happen when there are no phone, no computers, no TV to give us all real facts.
But it is getting much better every single day. I DO NOT think they could have done better.
I think they are all GREAT :) MOO
 

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