8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[Fairy1]

To those who do believe it was a murder/suicide mission, I ask, why did she choose a time when she had her nieces? It is assumed (by some) that she was angry with Daniel, but wouldn't this theory indicate she was also mad at her brother and wanted to hurt him? Why? And why isn't anyone questioning HIM about her state of mind or possibly known substance abuse issues?

I honestly don't believe the Hance's would have put their children in the care of anyone who was known to be an alcoholic or drug addict. And I don't believe Daniel had any knowledge of that type of behavior, either.

In any case, they all have interests to protect and I just cannot hold that against them. None of the survivors were behind the wheel(s) that day and none of them should be held responsible for what happened.

JMHO

 

[RSorensen]

In any case, they all have interests to protect and I just cannot hold that against them. None of the survivors were behind the wheel(s) that day and none of them should be held responsible for what happened. JMHO

Thanks. It wouldn't hurt all of us to remember once in a while that all the survivors of this tragedy - whether it was an accident, a terrible mistake, a tragic unraveling of a usually decent person, a drunk who finally made a fatal and deadly error, a suicide, a murder/suicide, whatever you think it was - will live the rest of their lives with loss and terrible, haunting memories, while we sit at our computers and try to solve an unsolvable mystery.

 

[rpd113]

To those who do believe it was a murder/suicide mission, I ask, why did she choose a time when she had her nieces? It is assumed (by some) that she was angry with Daniel, but wouldn't this theory indicate she was also mad at her brother and wanted to hurt him?

Well, whether it was an intentional murder/suicide or her just getting carried away, she showed little regard for the safety of the nieces.

As to the former, Diane unraveled shortly after speaking to Jackie. We'll never know why, but perhaps, as voxrock speculates, it had something to do with hearing about her mother attending the niece's play?

But again, no matter her intention, she acted recklessly in the stewardship of the nieces, so that doesn't strike me as a hole in the murder/suicide theory.

And to clarify, I personally don't think she woke up that day with that plan, necessarily. It may well have been that she just hit a breaking point or cracked during the drive and spontaneously decided to do what she did.

 

[RSorensen]

As to the former, Diane unraveled shortly after speaking to Jackie. We'll never know why, but perhaps, as voxrock speculates, it had something to do with hearing about her mother attending the niece's play?

I don't know. Diane was said to have had a good relationship with her brothers and they each had a good relationship with her mother. Also, Diane knew her mother had visited her grandchildren (at least the children of the brothers) and they probably visited her. Even if Diane despised her mother, which I don't think was the case, she would have been to several weddings, and other family gatherings that her mother would have attended. I find it hard to believe that hearing her mother was attending her grand-children's recital, even if Diane was otherwise upset, would have played a significant role in this tragedy. Also, didn't Jackie say that the conversation was normal and that Diane discussed where they would sit and that Diane would put the smallest child on her lap? Or, am I hallucinating again?

 

[zippitydoda]

To those who do believe it was a murder/suicide mission, I ask, why did she choose a time when she had her nieces? It is assumed (by some) that she was angry with Daniel, but wouldn't this theory indicate she was also mad at her brother and wanted to hurt him? Why? And why isn't anyone questioning HIM about her state of mind or possibly known substance abuse issues?

I honestly don't believe the Hance's would have put their children in the care of anyone who was known to be an alcoholic or drug addict. And I don't believe Daniel had any knowledge of that type of behavior, either.

In any case, they all have interests to protect and I just cannot hold that against them. None of the survivors were behind the wheel(s) that day and none of them should be held responsible for what happened.

JMHO

If you have known someone who has committed suicide, you might need to find "reasons" to understand what lead them to take their life. For me, I felt that the person I knew could not see past that moment in time, and chose to do something so final. Many people lose it - for whatever reason, just watch the six o'clock news, and we hear about some person going berserk and killing innocent people every so often. Perhaps we can't find the logic in these "reasons" so we get lost trying to figure the reasons out. It could simply be - what may have meant so much to this person at that moment in time means nothing to us, so we can't understand it.

Why take five babies, and almost another - her own children, and her brothers children? What possible reason could someone tell us that would make sense of that? There is no logic in it so we may never understand why it happened. But, it happened, that's what we do know. Just because we don't understand why, does not mean that Diane didn't. It may have been her moment in time where she could not see past what was troubling her.

 

[rpd113]

I don't know. Diane was said to have had a good relationship with her brothers and they each had a good relationship with her mother. Also, Diane knew her mother had visited her grandchildren (at least the children of the brothers) and they probably visited her. Even if Diane despised her mother, which I don't think was the case, she would have been to several weddings, and other family gatherings that her mother would have attended. I find it hard to believe that hearing her mother was attending her grand-children's recital, even if Diane was otherwise upset, would have played a significant role in this tragedy. Also, didn't Jackie say that the conversation was normal and that Diane discussed where they would sit and that Diane would put the smallest child on her lap? Or, am I hallucinating again?

Yeah, Jay said that Jackie recalled the conversation as pleasant. But that could have just been Diane maintaining control by pretending it didn't bother her.

I think she did despise her mom. And I don't think they were at many (if any) family events together. Jay didn't even know what Diane's mom looked like...

Voxrock has speculated how it could have triggered something in her to hear the nieces talking about grandma, and for her own kids to be at and near the age of wanting to know what the deal was.

I don't know. I still feel strongly that Danny knows something important to the story. Perhaps it was a confluence of trauma and stress that weekend that took her to a dark place.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I think she did despise her mom.

When you haven't talked to your mother since the age of 9 and exclude her from your own wedding, I'd say so!

 

[RSorensen]

Yeah, Jay said that Jackie recalled the conversation as pleasant. But that could have just been Diane maintaining control by pretending it didn't bother her.

Voxrock has speculated how it could have triggered something in her to hear the nieces talking about grandma, and for her own kids to be at and near the age of wanting to know what the deal was.

I don't know. I still feel strongly that Danny knows something important to the story. Perhaps it was a confluence of trauma and stress that weekend that took her to a dark place.

You have a point and the thing about the nieces talking about gramma is something to ponder. I don't really recall hearing or reading anything about the actual relationship between Diane and her mother. But, I had an impression they had one, although strained (don't recall how I got that). Your feeling about Danny is absolutely in sync with mine. The entire issue of his not being at the campsite on Thursday when that is what the family though, says a lot to me. Perhaps his denial is really an inability to deal with the fact that he might have been the catalyst for the death of his own child, his wife and six other innocent people. Under enough pressure people just snap. Not a good feeling to think there might be more Diane Schulers out on the road. Being a defensive driver shouldn't have to include watching for people coming at you in the opposite direction.

 

[nosysw]

I don't know. Diane was said to have had a good relationship with her brothers and they each had a good relationship with her mother. Also, Diane knew her mother had visited her grandchildren (at least the children of the brothers) and they probably visited her. Even if Diane despised her mother, which I don't think was the case, she would have been to several weddings, and other family gatherings that her mother would have attended. I find it hard to believe that hearing her mother was attending her grand-children's recital, even if Diane was otherwise upset, would have played a significant role in this tragedy. Also, didn't Jackie say that the conversation was normal and that Diane discussed where they would sit and that Diane would put the smallest child on her lap? Or, am I hallucinating again?

I think Diane did despise her mother- wasn't it reported that they had no relationship and that Diane never spoke to anyone about her or explained why- and no one questioned it?

I know a couple of psychologists (psychiatrists?) indicated that they didn't buy the suicide theory or that the idea of having to have contact with her mother would be so traumatizing that it would cause her to go over the edge, but I don't know. I don't think anyone who didn't treat Diane could possibly speculate with any certainty what would or would not set her off...We don't know what happened with the mother in Diane's early childhood...there could have been any number of traumatizing events before the eventual abandonment.

As far as the brothers having a good relationship with the mother, I was under the impression that they had allowed her back into their lives- which is not the same as having a good relationship...everyone has a different threshold for forgiveness and what they can and cannot accept. And, I believe she was the oldest- (I may be wrong on this)...if so, she may have negative memories they don't. Or she may have repressed memories that were coming into consciousness more and more as the possibility of being forced to be around her mother (due to her mother's involvement with other family members)...and if she found out Dan was having an affair...that could have triggered more issues about anger and abandonment...added with the pot and alcohol (don't care if she was an alcoholic or not, she knowingly, IMO, ingested a ton of alcohol which she should absolutely have known would make driving in the best case scenario risky as he77...)

Anyway, I'm rambling all to make the point that I don't think anyone can diagnose and predict what Diane would do, or her state of mind, without being someone who personally treated her. And, if there were anyone who should have known she was unravelling, it would have been Daniel (doesn't mean he should have known this would happen but if he did know she was unravelling he could/should have handled things better). Warren, may have known something was terribly wrong when he spoke to her, but if he was as shocked as he indicated later about her drinking- which I believe he was- he just never, ever imagined, in that phone call, the possible horror that was about to unfold. If Daniel is in denial, having lived with her, how could her brother have had any idea of what could possibly happen? He tried to find her, he tried to trace her, and Jackie contacted the police...that was the best he could do with what he knew at the time...and I'm sure the whole thing was making him panic at some level which would have even made it more difficult for him to prevent it in anyway (not that I think he could have even if he was clear headed)...

 

[RSorensen]

He (Diane's Brother -my addition) tried to find her, he tried to trace her, and Jackie contacted the police...that was the best he could do with what he knew at the time...and I'm sure the whole thing was making him panic at some level which would have even made it more difficult for him to prevent it in anyway (not that I think he could have even if he was clear headed)...

Until I saw your comment about "Panic" I hadn't much considered the state of mind that the Hances might have been in while the calls were going back and forth. There has been some criticism, mainly by the Bastardi family, that Warren Hance knew Diane had a drinking problem and didn't call 911 because he wanted to get to her before the police did. But, there seems to be a lot of evidence that Mr. Hance did not know about her drinking problem. Panic would explain a lot. It is possible that Diane wasn't the only person not functioning at an optimum level that day! Wondering if your three kids were in danger, and being many miles away should at least make those who criticize him for not doing enough think twice. Thanks.

 

[Nova]

I know we all want to make sense of this, but...

1. The only evidence we have that Dan was having an affair is one wrong statement as to whether he was where he was supposed to be on Thursday night.

2. Diane chose not to have a relationship with her mother, but that had been true for 27 years without prompting any suicides. (In my own family, it was my father who walked out. His four children have relationships with him ranging from cool-and-infrequent to none at all. Nobody's killed herself, nor have our differing responses produced any conflict between us.)

3. I understand that parents all too often decide to take their children with them when they commit suicide, apparently reasoning they can't leave the kids behind without a caretaker. But nieces with living parents of their own? Has anybody heard of a suicide killing children not their own and not dependent on them?

4. As several of us have pointed out, there is no testimony that Diane tried to steer into other cars, trees, or any other obstacles. Nobody who spoke to Diane that morning has reported finding her despondent or otherwise suicidal.

I suppose it's possible that Diane decided to kill herself because she found out Dan was having an affair, but I think it's the least likely of the theories suggested.

 

[nosysw]

Nova, when I said "if" she found out Daniel was having an affair, I really meant if...not suggesting this happened, just throwing out some possibilities.

And I'm not subscribing necessarily to the suicide theory...just saying it can't be ruled out by psychologists/psychiatrists who know very little about her and haven't treated her...

The same with how the mother returning into her life (or the lives of her extended family) would affect someone...we just don't know how a possibly overwhelmed, probably very high strung, woman with alot of issues (which we also don't know for sure about) might react. For example, maybe her mother left her because of her own psychiatric issues...suppose...and suppose Diane had been abused in some way by her mother...suppose...and maybe Diane inherited some of those psychiatric issues...we just don't know what happened in her early life that could cause an anticipated interaction with her mother to cause her to go over the edge (along with other stressors)...this is ALL speculation...maybe mom was an alcoholic which is thought to have genetic influences...we just don't know...

But I sure wouldn't rule out some kind of psychological break if some of these things all came together within a short period of time...

We will probably never know...but I'm more of the mind of a psychological, substance influenced break than suicide...


But, I do think something happened with Daniel that was at least one of the factors influencing this break...

 

[nosysw]

I know we all want to make sense of this, but...

2. Diane chose not to have a relationship with her mother, but that had been true for 27 years without prompting any suicides. (In my own family, it was my father who walked out. His four children have relationships with him ranging from cool-and-infrequent to none at all. Nobody's killed herself, nor have our differing responses produced any conflict between us.)

Above snipped and bbm:

I think you're lucky- I know families where this exact thing, differing responses, has caused extreme hostility and even a break in sibling relationships...

 

[Saffron]

It seems the psychological and moral possibilities have been exhausted since we have very little personal information about Diane. We don't know very much about her personality such as her emotional maturity level, if she had a temper or a tendency toward anger or vengeance, etc. It sounds like she didn't, but we don't really know.

Since we can't know her emotional state of mind that day, and by all appearances the weekend camping trip seemed like a normal family outing with no indication of trouble ahead, I'm back to wondering about an unexpected physical reaction such as might happen with laced marijuana (an idea a few of us have already mentioned but not elaborated on). But, I'm out of my element on this subject because I know next to nothing about marijuana. I realize that if Diane smoked it regularly then she would have a tolerance to it, but I have heard that it's much stronger these days and that it can be laced with things to make it more potent. If this is possible, it would make some sense because it does seem like something happened all at once. (Which is why the family was so puzzled and thought it might be a medical emergency.) I wonder if Diane had some vodka for a hair-of- the-dog situation or maybe some anxiety, and smoked marijuana that was laced with something which made it extra potent and then the combination suddenly affected her mind and subsequently her judgement. Maybe it caused her to be so confused and out of her mind in a way. I know it sounds dramatic, but a sudden physiological reaction sounds as likely as any of the other scenarios we've all thought of.

 

[rpd113]

I'm back to wondering about an unexpected physical reaction such as might happen with laced marijuana.

The problem with that theory is we know she smoked pot regularly. I strongly suspect she had a consistent/trusted source.

Not to mention all the vodka -- I suppose she could have guzzled some while hallucinating from laced pot, but we know she walked out of McDonalds with perfect vodka mixers and that the bottle was within arm's reach (or she rooted through all the luggage to get it while hallucinating).

 

[rpd113]

But, there seems to be a lot of evidence that Mr. Hance did not know about her drinking problem.

I think the fact that he spoke so highly of Diane at the wake is telling. But after the toxicology report and the entrance of Dominic Barbara, he cut Danny and Jay out of his life.

 

[twinkiesmom]

2. Diane chose not to have a relationship with her mother, but that had been true for 27 years without prompting any suicides. (In my own family, it was my father who walked out. His four children have relationships with him ranging from cool-and-infrequent to none at all. Nobody's killed herself, nor have our differing responses produced any conflict between us.)

I obviously don't know what went on in your family after Dad walked out, but Diane clearly took on the "mom" role for her brothers after her mother left to be with another man. Reports were that not only did Diane not let her mom back in her life but also Diane's friends even believed her mother was deceased. There clearly was a lot of resentment there that was buried and not expressed.

I don't think Diane intentionally killed her nieces, but you have to remember it was her limbic system (raw emotion) in control of her and the car...Good Aunt Diane had left the building.

http://nymag.com/news/features/62043/index2.html

 

[Pandora]

The problem with that theory is we know she smoked pot regularly. I strongly suspect she had a consistent/trusted source.

Not to mention all the vodka -- I suppose she could have guzzled some while hallucinating from laced pot, but we know she walked out of McDonalds with perfect vodka mixers and that the bottle was within arm's reach (or she rooted through all the luggage to get it while hallucinating).

I agree that she probably had a consistent/trusted source; however, campers are a "sharing lot" and it would be perfectly normal for another camper to share his/her stash w/ Diane.

 

[packerdog]

Well, whether it was an intentional murder/suicide or her just getting carried away, she showed little regard for the safety of the nieces.

As to the former, Diane unraveled shortly after speaking to Jackie. We'll never know why, but perhaps, as voxrock speculates, it had something to do with hearing about her mother attending the niece's play?

But again, no matter her intention, she acted recklessly in the stewardship of the nieces, so that doesn't strike me as a hole in the murder/suicide theory.

And to clarify, I personally don't think she woke up that day with that plan, necessarily. It may well have been that she just hit a breaking point or cracked during the drive and spontaneously decided to do what she did.

Right, she had little regard for those children. I don't think she was a seasoned drinker. She threw up a couple of times. If she was a drinker I don't think she would throw up. It also stated in the police report that she never put on the brakes when she saw cars coming towards her. Even a drunk person would put on the brakes (sometimes to often) because it is a reflex. I think she needed the vodka and pot to give her courage to kill herself and the children. She knew that her husband wouldn't make a great single parent to the kids. As for her brother, I think she had some built up anger due to the relationship her had with her mother.
If she had been an alcoholic and needed to drink on the road with children aboard, how did she hold down a job that she had for any length of time? She would have to drink on the job, which no one said she did.

I think it is terrible what damage a parent can cause leaving a family. These moms/dads are very selfish and don't give a darn about their children. very sad.

 

[rpd113]

I agree that she probably had a consistent/trusted source; however, campers are a "sharing lot" and it would be perfectly normal for another camper to share his/her stash w/ Diane.

But weren't the reports that no one even saw Diane at the campground until Sunday morning?

Interesting in and of itself.