A&E The Killing Season Episodes 1 and 2

[twocuriouscats]

Listening to WS Radio - I have a few thoughts on NAMUS (too shy to call in LOL)!

1) Could there be a way to link the cases on NAMUS? ( the UID Gilgo vics, for researchers, etc.)
2) Is the toddler's mother in NAMUS? What is her id#?
3) The volunteer community could help with getting the info into the database, the backlog. I mean the info would be made public, so anybody could technically enter/update the info without needing a background check or having to work for LE or the ME's office.

I'm also going to repeat my belief that we need better sketches of the UIDs. Not trying to slam anybody, but surely a volunteer artist could be found to do it - if we (YOU!) could convince LE or the ME's office.

Good to hear Todd from NAMUS - please forward to him! TIA!

 

[Frontoon]

Just seems like an odd choice...what benefits does burlap offer as opposed to plastic or some random suitcase? It seems to be a matter of accessibility or convenience for LISK, no? Also, I can guarantee that burlap is used much less often for most; you won't find many people living in NYC or in many urban areas with burlap, especially enough of it to dispose of 4 separate bodies in. Yes, someone living on Long Island could potentially have a use for burlap but if LISK was so smart, why use a material that is used for specific purposes as opposed to a material or item that has a much more general use like plastic bags, trash cans or suitcases...it seems that he did so because it was readily available for him, whether it be because it was in his garage or he had some at work. I still wonder why the burlap couldn't be traced at least to some degree.

Either way, he had to go and move/dispose of the bodies regardless and I don't think that burlap in particular would have made it easier or particularly advantageous when doing so.

Maybe it's just better camouflage in bed of open pickup truck, also less noticeable in reeds/ marsh? Aesthetics?Biodegradability?

 

[twocuriouscats]

They just confirmed that the toddler's mom is not in NAMUS. Now that Todd knows he will make sure she gets entered! Good job!

 

[Claudette]

They just confirmed that the toddler's mom in not in NAMUS. Now that Todd knows he will make sure she gets entered! Good job!

Wow, seriously? That's....quite the oversight.

 

[shandram19]

There were only 4 vics w/burlap, correct?
I wonder if when the unsub started killing if he worked for a business that used burlap, but later lost that job and that may have caused him to no longer have access to that material and in turn caused him to have to change his disposal methods. I'm sorry if this has been mentioned in previous threads, as by the time I came to websleuths there were way to many LISK threads to get completely caught up. These episodes of THE Killing Season serve as a great starting point for those of us who didn't get the chance to carefully follow from the beginning, again great job!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[prolificProfile88]

I don't know why people have such a hard time believing its one killer responsible for all the bodies on Ocean Parkway? Everyone makes the comparison to Joel Rifkin, and he too started out dismembering victims and progressed to dumping whole bodies. It is the killer evolving. At first he dismembers because he thinks it will help him not be caught, its easier to move a body in pieces, or a young killer's morbid curiosity. I think LISK started dismembering bodies to evade capture and as he became more comfortable killing, he realized the cops weren't on to him and it inflated his ego and he started dumping whole bodies. Like Rifkin. I think after the pieces of the victims were found in Manorville and not on Ocean Parkway, that he became very comfortable with that dumping ground because nothing was being found there and it was easy for him to pull off the road and throw them away. I think he might have got some pleasure of driving by the bodies, but that the bodies were not his trophies. He probably has trophies that he can easily access and play with to relive his kills/fantasies. Phones, jewelry, clothing, photos ect. I think he might have been a young man on Long Island when Rifkin was caught, having disturbing thoughts, and related to or idolized Rifkin. Lets look at the similarities. Both from Long Island, both kill sex workers, preferred method is strangulation, started dismembering, progressed to dumping victims whole, both into gardening/landscaping? I see almost complete carbon copies. LISK is more tech savvy, but that's to be expected as the times have changed. The only real differences I see is LISK in my opinion has a better paying job or was born into some money, just from the location, but maybe not? LISK became comfortable with a dumping ground and so did Rifkin. Rifkin liked to leave his victims in rivers. If Rifkin hadn't become cocky and careless he would have gotten away with it for a lot longer, if he would have been caught at all. The cops had no idea his victims were related, let alone a suspect. I imagine LISK was angry and maybe a little afraid when his graveyard was found, but after he hadn't been caught, it inflated his ego. He either has a new dumping ground or is on a hiatus. A lot of men lose sex drive with age, but I don't think he will ever completely stop, unless he is caught.

 

[prolificProfile88]

Also I think Shannon Gilbert is related to the bodies on Ocean Parkway. Its just to much for it to be a coincidence. I think either someone in that gated community is Lisk or he was visiting someone there and picked her up. I don't think he is far from Oak Beach. Maybe he is married with children and his family vacations or visits relatives in the summer months, and he has to stay behind for "work"? Or maybe he has a house or apt nobody else knows about, or has complete control over his family and they dare not ask him about his business, he might work late hours. But then again i might be wrong. We won't know until he is caught and brought to justice. And as far as Shannon Gilbert goes, maybe its common place for ladies of the night to turn up dead in Oak beach, idk never been there? Maybe LISK is a group of men all covering for each other? But when the cops say Shannon said "they're trying to kill me", I tend to believe her. I don't think a little coke would make her that hysterical, being in her profession in sure she had done it more than a few times. I think either the John tried to drug her and she realized it want coke, or he said something that made her fear for her life. Maybe her driver procured women for LISK or group of LISKS. All these theories i find more convincing than two competing serial killers in the same location at the same time. Maybe its just me? It just seems so obvious.

 

[kat913]

Am I reading it right...he skipped 2008?

Wonder wgat that year was like for him?

Seems there was a hurricane...September 6, 2008 — Hurricane Hanna strikes Long Island as a tropical storm with wind gusts of 52 mph (84 km/h) at Shinnecock Inlet. Aside from numerous downed trees, damage was minimal.[94]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_hurricanes


But that was late in summer season so shouldn't interfere with his summer months.

Just found it curious that year he was dormant....if I read things correctly.

Maybe the recession? Long Island slipped into recession in October 2008 almost a year later than the U.S. economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Long_Island

Or maybe he simply didn't have any alone time that year.

Just find it curious!

 

[dotr]

Any chance at all that the perp is EAR, The East Area Rapist, once active in California?

 

[kat913]

Now that would be scary but it would explain where he disapeared to! That was the 70's correct? Would that make him about 60-70 yrs old now? Possible...He also liked to torment with phone calls. Is there anything similar to these crimes in Florida?

 

[Angela_Beckett]

I think that by using burlap a possible witness may think they were filled with sand and placed to protect the beach. Wonder if near the bodies were found traces of sacks actually stocked with sand

 

[thefragile7393]

Odd reaction by the guy that had been named in the Wikipedia LISK entry... a little too casual.

Finally got to see first two episodes on sling...and I agree he wasn't really surprised or concerned. Very hinky, IMO. I would have had a very different reaction.

 

[dotr]

Now that would be scary but it would explain where he disapeared to! That was the 70's correct? Would that make him about 60-70 yrs old now? Possible...He also liked to torment with phone calls. Is there anything similar to these crimes in Florida?

He was active until 1986, liked to get to know his victims beforehand, was very cruel and made taunting phone calls.
He was very athletic and broke into homes - but what if he could no longer jump fences, break in ect.especially in NY and with the advent of cctv, cell phones and Back Page, maybe he has changed his M/O and gets his victims to go to him?
Speculation, just throwing out the possibility..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Night_Stalker

 

[DakotaMayi]

I am on the fence. Open to both. Yet I do wonder does he change his MO as part of his game???

I'm open to both as well but I just feel like this is one guy. You know, like you said, maybe he changed his MO or he found different ways he preferred.

What are the chances of two people unbeknown to each other are using the same dumping ground. Idk.

 

[Hatfield]

Welcome!

LISK's killing season starting around June could pertain to many things. The teacher aspect could be one of them. Also, New York City gets extremely hot in the summer. And many wealthy families that live in the city do pack up and head out to Long Island and spend the season in their summer homes, and move back to the city at the end of August or September. I was in the heart of Manhattan during September a few years back. It was overcast, but the humidity was 100% and completely unbearable. I don't know how the local men I saw on Wall Street can wear suits in those kinds of conditions. It very well could be that LISK is wealthy and he (and perhaps his family) do the city summer leave for the Long Island summer shuffle. And I wouldn't be surprised if he had a summer home in the Hamptons.

Whatever the case, Gilgo Beach is his main hot spot. I believe he has a longtime personal and emotional connection to that beach area, either from childhood, or some time after. Perhaps he spent a lot of time with a girlfriend who broke up with him there, or he lost his virginity there at a young age and a female turned it into a horrible experience for him and he has resented them ever since. And I do believe after he dumps the bodies, he returns to the site to be close to the undiscovered remains, many times–weeks, months, and years later until they are found. I also believe that since the bodies have been found, he feels resentment as his secret trophy garden has been defiled by LE, the media, and the public in general. And it is possible he still visits the memorial sites of the victims there that were created by the family and friends. In a nutshell, LISK is a lot closer than the residents realize.

Re BBM
I agree he has some connection there and most likely when he was a child or young boy.

There was a food TV show called "Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown" and the episode he did when he talked about his childhood memories and fondness for his Atlantic City boardwalk area where he grew up was a perfect example. He talked about his first girlfriend and growing up there and how the memories run deep. Some captions from an article about that show strike a similar tone with what LISK may be experiencing with his Gilgo beach area.

"To him, “Atlantic City will never die.”
"Oh enchanted land of my childhood.”
"childhood memories .......that “feeds the soul.”"

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_bd56a6aa-03ab-11e5-9345-93e3c9eb6de1.html

 

[eyesonly]

GB4,
He picks his victims in a two part event.
It's not about a certain look for him. It's what he is reading in their profile's that is his first check mark.
Then he meets them and wants intimate details of their lives, so he will talk to them for some time. It is in this stage where he makes his decision on whether they will become his next victim or not.
Get their online profiles together and read them through his eyes. Once you see what he sees, you will be able to go over other profiles from that time and decipher other profiles of women he has contacted.
Understand what his meaning of a "*advertiser censored*" is and you'll understand his purpose. All prostitutes are not *advertiser censored* to him.

 

[FindHG]

Re BBM
I agree he has some connection there and most likely when he was a child or young boy.

There was a food TV show called "Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown" and the episode he did when he talked about his childhood memories and fondness for his Atlantic City boardwalk area where he grew up was a perfect example. He talked about his first girlfriend and growing up there and how the memories run deep. Some captions from an article about that show strike a similar tone with what LISK may be experiencing with his Gilgo beach area.

"To him, “Atlantic City will never die.”
"Oh enchanted land of my childhood.”
"childhood memories .......that “feeds the soul.”"

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_bd56a6aa-03ab-11e5-9345-93e3c9eb6de1.html

Gosh, so well conceived as always, Hatfield, completely agreed with you and Mr. Bourdain's sentiment. You're gracious and sagacious! Thank you.

If he had to move away from LI, then spent more time on the coast facing Gilgo Beach on the Jersey Shore, again with that wiff of a sense panorama and grandiosity, he may have been able to see his newer gruesome tableau from afar?

Gilgo Beach https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4928467,-73.4105379,5999a,20y,14.62h,65.78t/data=!3m1!1e3

Veiw from Jersey Shore https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1501712,-74.0462379,1947a,20y,47.81h,81.81t/data=!3m1!1e3

I completely get the sister. That's where he hunted, but maybe he moved onto those virtual 2nd life losers' reality type formats, who knows?

The least riskiest way to hunt for him, now, would be what?

My impression or pure speculation would be of him/them, has command of, in his mind, to function as he sees himself/themselves:

- completely dependent, loyal loser underling/s

- a very shiny clean pickup truck, maybe a small boat,

- command of internet masking/tracking seems innate,

- along with stalking, predatory and preservation techniques,

- territory

- and, that little flare for arts and crafts somehow?

His MO in weeding out women may be something like making it clear he 'sets the rules, no questions asked, if you're not game, move on' type thing?

I don't know if you've ever been or seen a woman whom a man or men have grabbed, say off a street into a car, but whomever it is, girl, boy, man, woman, you've been watched before it happens, most likely. It happens when there are the fewest people around, you're the most vulnerable and unaware, so think fast and fight like hell. And be aware of your surroundings, don't tune out, please.

~

On another note, sleuthers, I don't think I could've slept a wink, were it not for hearing the real time information sharing happening between Josh, Rachel, the Namus and profiling expert dudes, Tricia, and Levi back! There's really no way to thank you all enough. I know just a fraction of what you must feel like now, walking, talking, feeling your way through something like this. I'm so proud to witness it and of you all, thanking you for your humanity and compassion. Please, eat, smile, rest, and be well, wishing you all the best luck in everything. Thank you for this:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websle...n-ae-josh-zeman-rachel-mills-episodes-3-and-4

 

[LAbradford]

GB4,
He picks his victims in a two part event.
It's not about a certain look for him. It's what he is reading in their profile's that is his first check mark.
Then he meets them and wants intimate details of their lives, so he will talk to them for some time. It is in this stage where he makes his decision on whether they will become his next victim or not.
Get their online profiles together and read them through his eyes. Once you see what he sees, you will be able to go over other profiles from that time and decipher other profiles of women he has contacted.
Understand what his meaning of a "*advertiser censored*" is and you'll understand his purpose. All prostitutes are not *advertiser censored* to him.

I agree, sounds like that's exactly what he's doing.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

 

[SH2007]

1st post on here, been following this case from afar via the local papers here in NY.

First, I like how they had the victim's sister listen to the audio of the corrections officer. Anyone ever have her listen to audio of the doctor's voice? James Burke? Brewer? The businessman who owned the nurseries & aquarium?

Second, the reference of the calls to Queens. Any of the involved/related/rumored individuals have connections to Queens? Relatives, parents, etc? Maybe a deceased relative left a piece of property that was never sold?

Finally, from the preview to next week's episode, it seems like they are leaving LI to head to AC and FL. Will they be coming back to LI at a later episode? It seems like they left so much unexplored in LI in terms of the doctor's weird behavior, the whole corruption nonsense with Burke & the SCPD, rumors about the businessman, the guy from manorville on trial for a similar crime, etc.

 

[Adam31]

Its interesting because Burlap is used mainly for garden uses. When do gardens start to see the most attention in the spring and summer. According to what they have said on the show the killings or the dumping of the bodies occurs from post memorial day through the summer. Maybe the killer has some association with a gardening company or nursery in the area.