A month later... where is Lisa? What is your opinion?

[MissFine]

I believe DB is responsible for the child's death. Either on purpose or by some sort of nelect and she is hiding what happened to the child. I think there is a possiblity the death happened under the watch of both parents, eithe ron purpose or by accident. Perhaps JI went to this job to avoid suspicion. Perhaps DB stayed home and got drunk because of what happened to the child via her BF and she is now protecting him. I find it odd that he suddenly had to go to a job the night the child goes missing and this could have been cooked up between the 2 of them..

I definitely think the cops should have arrested her long ago for child endangerment and neglect. Why this woman was allowed to keep children is beyond me. I also think the other children should be removed from her care pronto and can't believe they are allowed to be with her.

(Love your avatar) and your post.
I'm still shocked this 'mom' is free. We know she at the very least is neglectful. moo

 

[highflyer]

According to the poll-
130 think someone else other than family did it.

200 believe it's either DB or JI or both. The MAJORITY think one or both parents are involved.
(40 more think it's someone who knows the family.)

Yes, and being a newbie I'm dumber than a stump at looking at clues and certainly not in the majority in my opinion, but it still feels like a case wrapped in a case.

 

[JohnBull]

200 believe it's either DB or JI or both. The MAJORITY think one or both parents are involved.

You'd probably get that in any similar case, because it's the default position.

 

[Twelve of One]

Where's this intruders DNA, shoe prints, hairs, fingerprints, etc?
An intruder who enters a home, steals 3 cell phones off the counter :crazy: and kidnaps a baby would leave some type of evidence--likely leave some type of evidence...... moo

An intruder who is careful might manage to leave very little or none. And LE may have collected evidence; we don't really know what they have, if anything. Hope they have some that can eventually be used to help identify the guilty party. I was concerned when the local lawyer (the one who got fired) said she didn't see much fingerprint powder throughout the house, but I hope she's wrong about that.

 

[neese]

My thoughts: I have been on Tyler Dasher's thread reading after his tragic death, until I had to put the computer down because I couldn't take anymore.

Today I finally go back to baby Lisa threads, hoping to God that there is some kind of new info or new leads, only to find, we are no closer to finding baby Lisa than we were over a month ago.

In this poll, my original answer was the: Have no clue what happened choice or I just don't know. I never wanted to point my finger at DB because it seemed like Baby Lisa was very loved by looking at all of her pictures and videos. I also didn't think DB was smart enough to cover this whole thing up or have help and I was still going with the theory that she truly was too drunk to even know when she last checked on Lisa.

I'm sad to say, after reading the statistics that came out in Baby Tyler's case, I now do believe DB was very capable of hurting Lisa and disposing of her body alone without any help. I still don't think JI had any hand in this, but I could be wrong. But now that I see what Tyler's mom, Shelby was capable of, when all of her friends and family that were closest to her, never for one moment believed she could have ever harmed Tyler, now I see that anything is possible.

I will say, DB has showed much more emotion than Shelby Dasher did, however, those emotions may be coming from guilt at what she did. I truly just don't see how it was a stranger abduction or an abduction at all now. I guess b/c I always see the good in people, I didn't think it was possible that DB harmed her. Call me naive I guess. Now with seeing how Baby Tyler's last minutes on this earth were, I do believe that anybody is capable of anything.

I think that baby Lisa, must have ended up in the fast flowing river, along with the cell phones. After the Tyler case, I was even at the point of thinking, hey, ya know, DB called her drinking "adult time" and if in fact maybe DB had been really really stressed with a sick baby to care for, along with a six and eight year old, and IF she was just so stressed and this "adult time" she had that night, did really de-stress her and cause her to calm down rather than hurt baby Lisa then I now would say, do whatever it takes even if you drink a box of wine, do anything other than kill your child. If Lisa had been so fussy and DB had lost night after night of sleep, and rather than beat or hurt Lisa, she instead just sat outside and had "adult time" and if that had helped DB to calm down and be able to deal with the Baby better, then at this point now, I would say go for it. Anything is better than killing your child, even if it means, sitting on your stoop and getting drunk which I know I wouldn't do, as alot of us wouldn't but if it had spared a life then go for it. I had judged her so much for drinking that much while children were in her care, but IF, a big IF, getting drunk, while her kids were safe and sound in the house, I would now say, hey whatever it takes, as long as the kids are safe. I'm so upset, I think I'm repeating myself here...

But now, seeing that possibly being under the influence may be what caused baby Tyler's mom to snap makes me think, if DB was stressed, maybe the alcohol just lowered her inhibitions and helped her to carry out killing baby Lisa. Or if DB was black out drunk and baby Lisa was taken out of that house alive, that is still better than baby Lisa dying at the hands of her stressed mother. But I'm sad to say, I've lost hope now. I do think DB snapped, and whether or not she had help, I think Baby Lisa and the phones ended up in the river. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm right, I hope we see justice eventually. I'm sorry but just to know that Tyler was killed by his own mother's bare hands beating him over and over, makes me think anyone is capable of anything. I'm so sad that I have resorted to feeling that way.

So, truth is, I really don't think baby Lisa is with us any longer and it seems from the article I just read, LE doesn't think so either. My heart is broken for all the little children in this world that are now in heaven because they couldn't defend themselves in this world against the ones that were supposed to protect them and love them the most. It makes me so angry to think any human would take the life of anything not able to defend it's self. That's pretty pathetic. Sorry for such a sad post and I usually never give up hope, but my hope for Baby Lisa has diminished greatly. :sigh: :cry:

 

[neese]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filicide"]Filicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


Filicide is the deliberate act of a parent killing his or her own son or daughter. The word filicide derives from the Latin words filius meaning "son" or filia meaning daughter and the suffix -cide meaning to kill, murder, or cause death. "A filicide" may refer to the parent who killed his or her child as well as to the criminal act that the parent committed.

In some cultures, killing a daughter who is deemed to have disgraced the family is a common occurrence -see honor killing.

A 1999 US Department of Justice study concluded that between 1976 and 1997 in the United States, mothers were responsible for a higher share of children killed during infancy, while fathers were more likely to have been responsible for the murders of children age 8 or older.[1] Furthermore, 52% of the children killed by their mothers were male (maternal filicide), while 57% of the children killed by their fathers were male (paternal filicide). Parents were responsible for 61% of children murders under the age of five; filicide is the third leading cause of death amongst American children five to fourteen years old.[2]

 

[jenbo1]

I'll admit that I am a bit naive and I like to give people the benefit of the doubt This morning, I was watching some show on the ID channel. The subject was JonBenet Ramsey. Over the years, I had forgotten how the police, media, and general population wanted to believe that John and Patsy Ramsey had killed JonBenet. I wonder if this is the same type of situation. Until we hear of concrete evidence that Lisa is dead (cadaver dogs are not infallible), I am going to continue to hope for the best.

In regards to this latest about Jersey being paid to take Lisa, I believe that it very well could have happened. If he is homeless and possibly has a drug problem, $300 is a lot of money.

JMO....

 

[MissFine]

My thoughts: I have been on Tyler Dasher's thread reading after his tragic death, until I had to put the computer down because I couldn't take anymore.

Today I finally go back to baby Lisa threads, hoping to God that there is some kind of new info or new leads, only to find, we are no closer to finding baby Lisa than we were over a month ago.

In this poll, my original answer was the: Have no clue what happened choice or I just don't know. I never wanted to point my finger at DB because it seemed like Baby Lisa was very loved by looking at all of her pictures and videos. I also didn't think DB was smart enough to cover this whole thing up or have help and I was still going with the theory that she truly was too drunk to even know when she last checked on Lisa.

I'm sad to say, after reading the statistics that came out in Baby Tyler's case, I now do believe DB was very capable of hurting Lisa and disposing of her body alone without any help. I still don't think JI had any hand in this, but I could be wrong. But now that I see what Tyler's mom, Shelby was capable of, when all of her friends and family that were closest to her, never for one moment believed she could have ever harmed Tyler, now I see that anything is possible.

I will say, DB has showed much more emotion than Shelby Dasher did, however, those emotions may be coming from guilt at what she did. I truly just don't see how it was a stranger abduction or an abduction at all now. I guess b/c I always see the good in people, I didn't think it was possible that DB harmed her. Call me naive I guess. Now with seeing how Baby Tyler's last minutes on this earth were, I do believe that anybody is capable of anything.

I think that baby Lisa, must have ended up in the fast flowing river, along with the cell phones. After the Tyler case, I was even at the point of thinking, hey, ya know, DB called her drinking "adult time" and if in fact maybe DB had been really really stressed with a sick baby to care for, along with a six and eight year old, and IF she was just so stressed and this "adult time" she had that night, did really de-stress her and cause her to calm down rather than hurt baby Lisa then I now would say, do whatever it takes even if you drink a box of wine, do anything other than kill your child. If Lisa had been so fussy and DB had lost night after night of sleep, and rather than beat or hurt Lisa, she instead just sat outside and had "adult time" and if that had helped DB to calm down and be able to deal with the Baby better, then at this point now, I would say go for it. Anything is better than killing your child, even if it means, sitting on your stoop and getting drunk which I know I wouldn't do, as alot of us wouldn't but if it had spared a life then go for it. I had judged her so much for drinking that much while children were in her care, but IF, a big IF, getting drunk, while her kids were safe and sound in the house, I would now say, hey whatever it takes, as long as the kids are safe. I'm so upset, I think I'm repeating myself here...

But now, seeing that possibly being under the influence may be what caused baby Tyler's mom to snap makes me think, if DB was stressed, maybe the alcohol just lowered her inhibitions and helped her to carry out killing baby Lisa. Or if DB was black out drunk and baby Lisa was taken out of that house alive, that is still better than baby Lisa dying at the hands of her stressed mother. But I'm sad to say, I've lost hope now. I do think DB snapped, and whether or not she had help, I think Baby Lisa and the phones ended up in the river. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm right, I hope we see justice eventually. I'm sorry but just to know that Tyler was killed by his own mother's bare hands beating him over and over, makes me think anyone is capable of anything. I'm so sad that I have resorted to feeling that way.

So, truth is, I really don't think baby Lisa is with us any longer and it seems from the article I just read, LE doesn't think so either. My heart is broken for all the little children in this world that are now in heaven because they couldn't defend themselves in this world against the ones that were supposed to protect them and love them the most. It makes me so angry to think any human would take the life of anything not able to defend it's self. That's pretty pathetic. Sorry for such a sad post and I usually never give up hope, but my hope for Baby Lisa has diminished greatly. :sigh: :cry:

(hugs) neese. Such a beautiful post!
I know the pain you likely felt reading about Tyler.
After following Caylee's murder, I no longer blindly defend parents or missing and murdered children. moo

My stance on Lisa's disappearance hasn't changed. Imo her mom is involved and her dad probably is not. moo

 

[highflyer]

My thoughts: I have been on Tyler Dasher's thread reading after his tragic death, until I had to put the computer down because I couldn't take anymore.

Today I finally go back to baby Lisa threads, hoping to God that there is some kind of new info or new leads, only to find, we are no closer to finding baby Lisa than we were over a month ago.

In this poll, my original answer was the: Have no clue what happened choice or I just don't know. I never wanted to point my finger at DB because it seemed like Baby Lisa was very loved by looking at all of her pictures and videos. I also didn't think DB was smart enough to cover this whole thing up or have help and I was still going with the theory that she truly was too drunk to even know when she last checked on Lisa.

I'm sad to say, after reading the statistics that came out in Baby Tyler's case, I now do believe DB was very capable of hurting Lisa and disposing of her body alone without any help. I still don't think JI had any hand in this, but I could be wrong. But now that I see what Tyler's mom, Shelby was capable of, when all of her friends and family that were closest to her, never for one moment believed she could have ever harmed Tyler, now I see that anything is possible.

I will say, DB has showed much more emotion than Shelby Dasher did, however, those emotions may be coming from guilt at what she did. I truly just don't see how it was a stranger abduction or an abduction at all now. I guess b/c I always see the good in people, I didn't think it was possible that DB harmed her. Call me naive I guess. Now with seeing how Baby Tyler's last minutes on this earth were, I do believe that anybody is capable of anything.

I think that baby Lisa, must have ended up in the fast flowing river, along with the cell phones. After the Tyler case, I was even at the point of thinking, hey, ya know, DB called her drinking "adult time" and if in fact maybe DB had been really really stressed with a sick baby to care for, along with a six and eight year old, and IF she was just so stressed and this "adult time" she had that night, did really de-stress her and cause her to calm down rather than hurt baby Lisa then I now would say, do whatever it takes even if you drink a box of wine, do anything other than kill your child. If Lisa had been so fussy and DB had lost night after night of sleep, and rather than beat or hurt Lisa, she instead just sat outside and had "adult time" and if that had helped DB to calm down and be able to deal with the Baby better, then at this point now, I would say go for it. Anything is better than killing your child, even if it means, sitting on your stoop and getting drunk which I know I wouldn't do, as alot of us wouldn't but if it had spared a life then go for it. I had judged her so much for drinking that much while children were in her care, but IF, a big IF, getting drunk, while her kids were safe and sound in the house, I would now say, hey whatever it takes, as long as the kids are safe. I'm so upset, I think I'm repeating myself here...

But now, seeing that possibly being under the influence may be what caused baby Tyler's mom to snap makes me think, if DB was stressed, maybe the alcohol just lowered her inhibitions and helped her to carry out killing baby Lisa. Or if DB was black out drunk and baby Lisa was taken out of that house alive, that is still better than baby Lisa dying at the hands of her stressed mother. But I'm sad to say, I've lost hope now. I do think DB snapped, and whether or not she had help, I think Baby Lisa and the phones ended up in the river. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm right, I hope we see justice eventually. I'm sorry but just to know that Tyler was killed by his own mother's bare hands beating him over and over, makes me think anyone is capable of anything. I'm so sad that I have resorted to feeling that way.

So, truth is, I really don't think baby Lisa is with us any longer and it seems from the article I just read, LE doesn't think so either. My heart is broken for all the little children in this world that are now in heaven because they couldn't defend themselves in this world against the ones that were supposed to protect them and love them the most. It makes me so angry to think any human would take the life of anything not able to defend it's self. That's pretty pathetic. Sorry for such a sad post and I usually never give up hope, but my hope for Baby Lisa has diminished greatly. :sigh: :cry:

Statistics are great tools but just one available to LE. I tend to think that they are able to think out of the box and are open to any scenario.

 

[JohnBull]

Statistics are great tools but just one available to LE. I tend to think that they are able to think out of the box and are open to any scenario.

I have had some personal experience with LE in regards to a very famous murder mystery, and I completely disagree with you. Policemen are what they are, and they don't become that way by thinking outside the box.

 

[MissJames]

You'd probably get that in any similar case, because it's the default position.

I disagree and also find it insulting.

 

[MissJames]

I have had some personal experience with LE in regards to a very famous murder mystery, and I completely disagree with you. Policemen are what they are, and they don't become that way by thinking outside the box.

So,parents shouldn't be considered suspects ,even though statistically they are usually responsible, but ALL LE should be considered the same as the ones from this very famous murder mystery ? :waitasec:


I still believe that DB is responsible for whatever happened. Because of the height of the crib mattress I don't think Lisa slept in it. That leads me to believe that the neighbor lied about seeing Lisa in the crib,unless Lisa was already dead and the neighbor just thought she was sleeping.
I think DB had help hiding the body.
There is still the possibility that Lisa died before JI went to work.
The comment early on ,that DB's son had a bad dream and DB let him sleep in her bed ,leads me to believe that he might have heard something and DB told him it was a bad dream.
All JMO

 

[Whisperer]

Having had the misfortune of working with someone that killed their child, I am biased and know that 95% + it is the parent who is guilty when the child in under the age on one. Yet, we are here discussing hundreds of ways that somebody else must have done this.

Having shared an office with a professional who also killed her child and told LE that she was kidnapped. She had mental health issues but since she had a PHd, everyone thought she was exempt from any problems. Fact is, she wasn't. She drowned her baby in the tub and told LE she was kidnapped. This happens and crosses all walks of life. People with mental health issues lose it more easily than those w/o issues.

I have said from the very first day that I see something wrong with DB and it regards her mental health. I think we will find out eventually that she had problems, as did my co-worker who worked in the field and with criminals who have even murdered children.

If I am wrong, I can deal with that...but for now I stand by my first impression that DB is likely responsible for what happened to her baby and we are being mislead and misguided by some very crafty defense attorneys.

 

[Whisperer]

So,parents shouldn't be considered suspects ,even though statistically they are usually responsible, but ALL LE should be considered the same as the ones from this very famous murder mystery ? :waitasec:


I still believe that DB is responsible for whatever happened. Because of the height of the crib mattress I don't think Lisa slept in it. That leads me to believe that the neighbor lied about seeing Lisa in the crib,unless Lisa was already dead and the neighbor just thought she was sleeping.
I think DB had help hiding the body.
There is still the possibility that Lisa died before JI went to work.
The comment early on ,that DB's son had a bad dream and DB let him sleep in her bed ,leads me to believe that he might have heard something and DB told him it was a bad dream.
All JMO

I'm glad you mentioned the height of the mattress in the crib. It was not put down to its lowest rung. I wondered is the baby ever slept in the crib. Lisa could have climbed out of it very easily...as she was a large child. Why wouldn't they lower the mattress? strange.

That whole nursery gave me the creeps...something is wrong with that room. Who puts black garbage bags over the window in a nursery??

Bill S. said on a show a few weeks ago that all the lights were on in the house except Lisa's room.....it was dark. For those who believe a stranger abducted Lisa, it is odd that he would turn off the lights in her room, but turn on all the others.

 

[ynotdivein]

I'm glad you mentioned the height of the mattress in the crib. It was not put down to its lowest rung. I wondered is the baby ever slept in the crib. Lisa could have climbed out of it very easily...as she was a large child. Why wouldn't they lower the mattress? strange.

That whole nursery gave me the creeps...something is wrong with that room. Who puts black garbage bags over the window in a nursery??

Bill S. said on a show a few weeks ago that all the lights were on in the house except Lisa's room.....it was dark. For those who believe a stranger abducted Lisa, it is odd that he would turn off the lights in her room, but turn on all the others.

RBBM... Whisperer, IMO the black tarp/window coverings were placed there by LE while they were doing Luminol testing.

As for your other questions, I just :dunno:

 

[Dr. Know?]

Having had the misfortune of working with someone that killed their child, I am biased and know that 95% + it is the parent who is guilty when the child in under the age on one. Yet, we are here discussing hundreds of ways that somebody else must have done this.

Having shared an office with a professional who also killed her child and told LE that she was kidnapped. She had mental health issues but since she had a PHd, everyone thought she was exempt from any problems. Fact is, she wasn't. She drowned her baby in the tub and told LE she was kidnapped. This happens and crosses all walks of life. People with mental health issues lose it more easily than those w/o issues.

I have said from the very first day that I see something wrong with DB and it regards her mental health. I think we will find out eventually that she had problems, as did my co-worker who worked in the field and with criminals who have even murdered children.

If I am wrong, I can deal with that...but for now I stand by my first impression that DB is likely responsible for what happened to her baby and we are being mislead and misguided by some very crafty defense attorneys.

Good post. I agree. I'll go down too, if wrong but won't rule out drug or alcohol abuse.

 

[Whisperer]

RBBM... Whisperer, IMO the black tarp/window coverings were placed there by LE while they were doing Luminol testing.

As for your other questions, I just :dunno:

LE would remove it when they are done...imo. I have never observed LE leaving people's windows blacked out before.

I got the impression it was placed there to keep the baby from waking up too early.

 

[MissFine]

Having had the misfortune of working with someone that killed their child, I am biased and know that 95% + it is the parent who is guilty when the child in under the age on one. Yet, we are here discussing hundreds of ways that somebody else must have done this.

Having shared an office with a professional who also killed her child and told LE that she was kidnapped. She had mental health issues but since she had a PHd, everyone thought she was exempt from any problems. Fact is, she wasn't. She drowned her baby in the tub and told LE she was kidnapped. This happens and crosses all walks of life. People with mental health issues lose it more easily than those w/o issues.

I have said from the very first day that I see something wrong with DB and it regards her mental health. I think we will find out eventually that she had problems, as did my co-worker who worked in the field and with criminals who have even murdered children.

If I am wrong, I can deal with that...but for now I stand by my first impression that DB is likely responsible for what happened to her baby and we are being mislead and misguided by some very crafty defense attorneys.

:clap:

 

[JohnBull]

LE would remove it when they are done...imo. I have never observed LE leaving people's windows blacked out before.

I got the impression it was placed there to keep the baby from waking up too early.

Since the house faces southeast, and the baby's window northwest, I think it more likely it would have been to facilitate her sleeping in the evening. Which, incidentally, is a good argument for the child having slept in the crib.

 

[highflyer]

I have had some personal experience with LE in regards to a very famous murder mystery, and I completely disagree with you. Policemen are what they are, and they don't become that way by thinking outside the box.

I've a much greater appreciation for the skills and gifts of law enforcement JohnBull, but respect your right to disagree.