A month later... where is Lisa? What is your opinion?

[JohnBull]

I've a much greater appreciation for the skills and gifts of law enforcement JohnBull, but respect your right to disagree.

I don't disrespect the skills of law enforcement, but I do know that there are definite attributes regarding the profession as a whole that can be attributed to it, one of which is a marked tendency to play the percentages. And in the vast majority of cases, this is an approach that works. The problem arises when you have cases that defy the usual patterns, such as the present one. But then, those cases are fairly rare. Ninety-five out of a hundred really isn't bad, is it? And the other five; oh well!

 

[Whisperer]

Good post. I agree. I'll go down too, if wrong but won't rule out drug or alcohol abuse.

With most criminals and crimes against children, alcohol was involved. In fact I can't think of a case where it wasn't. That was years ago and perhaps drugs have taken over but I tend to think alcohol is still the prime fuel.

 

[Whisperer]

I don't disrespect the skills of law enforcement, but I do know that there are definite attributes regarding the profession as a whole that can be attributed to it, one of which is a marked tendency to play the percentages. And in the vast majority of cases, this is an approach that works. The problem arises when you have cases that defy the usual patterns, such as the present one. But then, those cases are fairly rare. Ninety-five out of a hundred really isn't bad, is it? And the other five; oh well!

How does this case defy the law of averages? I have not seen anything to indicate a crazed maniac or pedophile has taken this baby. What would be the motive of a normal person stealing this particular child?

Both of the above stranger types are not typically good at hiding their victims.

 

[Whisperer]

We have a baby missing. The parents of the child are lawyered up. They are not pleading for the life of their child. They have retained several attorneys and will speak only with ABC (who happens to pay well).

A cadaver dog has hit in the home; one parent claims to have failed a poly; one parent claims to have been very drunk and passed out. The other parent working hours he never worked before.

What sort of criminal did this? It had to be one that is the luckiest sex addict or maniac known to mankind. The stars lined up for him and he hit the jackpot on Oct 3. He broke into the one home where the man of the house wasn't home for the very first time and the other parent was drunk as a skunk. This lucky criminal needs to be playing the lottery.

 

[Whisperer]

Since the house faces southeast, and the baby's window northwest, I think it more likely it would have been to facilitate her sleeping in the evening. Which, incidentally, is a good argument for the child having slept in the crib.

Lovely decor. How many little girl bedrooms have black garbage bags taped on them? This is ridiculous. Have they never heard of blinds? It appears the parent's sleep was REAL important...

 

[Tuffy]

RBBM... Whisperer, IMO the black tarp/window coverings were placed there by LE while they were doing Luminol testing.

As for your other questions, I just :dunno:

I really wonder about this. This seems so odd that the police (needing the room dark) would just sloppily tape black plastic over the window they way they did. It looked really haphazard to me. There was a big piece of duct tape right down the middle too.

:waitasec: IDK, is this really how they do it?

 

[lorann]

I wish I did have a very firm idea of what I think did happen, and since most of what we hear is not from LE, it makes it even harder for me.

Jersey was known about the neighborhood, in fact I believe LE was looking for him before Lisa went missing. His relationship with his girlfriend, living at the flop house, everything we have heard is negative. But it is my opinion that entrusting him to kidnap or remove a body or even dispose of phones would certainly be foolish.

When my son was a baby, when he first made noises waking up, my three year old would climb into his bed and talk to him, tell him stories. amd sing to him. It was comical for me to listen and watch. When he got fussy because he was hungry to needed a diaper, that's when I went to them. Older sibs often are the ones who run and get a diaper for you. If Lisa had some medicine it is possible that if she was crying, someone went to her rescue and gave her medicine.

We have all probably known parents who were so neglectful we wondered how in the world the kids lived to grow up - but they did. So to me, the fact that mother seems to be very neglectful does not mean she killed or had anything to do with Lisa's being missing. What does make her suspicious in my mind is she does not appear to blame herself at all. Most mother's blame themselves if their kid gets a hangnail. I think she called her brother after finding Lisa dead and the coverup began. I think those two are the only ones who know exactly what happened.

I was surprised with Joe T showing up as we are all familiar with him, his TV appearances and participation in other cases. This means to me he feels the parents are guilty, will be arrested and charged and he will once again be in the limelight. I discredit anything he or the other lawyer brings out in the public like this last sold for 300 dollar thing.

The fact that the parents were not with LE each and every day, going through what they must go through to give LE everything they ask for - that really says a lot to me. I would have gotten a local lawyer if I felt I had been mistreated by LE when first questioned but with the understanding that I was still going to talk with LE. I would gladly give permission for the cheek swab for the boys to eliminate any confusion in evidence gathered.

Their lawyer who made the statement that parents said things were getting better each day shows the caliber of this lawyer and how unconcerned he is about their image.

We are being manipulated, a possible jury pool is being tainted, and in the meantime LE is still investigating and keeping their findings close to the vest as it should be. In this day and age, people are tried in the press and on the web - too sad.

 

[MissJames]

With most criminals and crimes against children, alcohol was involved. In fact I can't think of a case where it wasn't. That was years ago and perhaps drugs have taken over but I tend to think alcohol is still the prime fuel.

Alcohol was almost always an issue with the families of every foster child I ever had. The exception were the shaken babies .The parents were usually young and the babies were all around 5-7 weeks old.
Two of my own children had birth mothers who drank throughout the pregnancy .
Drugs were often involved ,but the alcohol was the common denominator.JMO

 

[JohnBull]

Lovely decor. How many little girl bedrooms have black garbage bags taped on them? This is ridiculous. Have they never heard of blinds? It appears the parent's sleep was REAL important...

Oh, that may very well be. But if so, it wasn't to keep her sleeping in the morning, but in the evening.

 

[MissJames]

I wish I did have a very firm idea of what I think did happen, and since most of what we hear is not from LE, it makes it even harder for me.

Jersey was known about the neighborhood, in fact I believe LE was looking for him before Lisa went missing. His relationship with his girlfriend, living at the flop house, everything we have heard is negative. But it is my opinion that entrusting him to kidnap or remove a body or even dispose of phones would certainly be foolish.

When my son was a baby, when he first made noises waking up, my three year old would climb into his bed and talk to him, tell him stories. amd sing to him. It was comical for me to listen and watch. When he got fussy because he was hungry to needed a diaper, that's when I went to them. Older sibs often are the ones who run and get a diaper for you. If Lisa had some medicine it is possible that if she was crying, someone went to her rescue and gave her medicine.

We have all probably known parents who were so neglectful we wondered how in the world the kids lived to grow up - but they did. So to me, the fact that mother seems to be very neglectful does not mean she killed or had anything to do with Lisa's being missing. What does make her suspicious in my mind is she does not appear to blame herself at all. Most mother's blame themselves if their kid gets a hangnail. I think she called her brother after finding Lisa dead and the coverup began. I think those two are the only ones who know exactly what happened.

I was surprised with Joe T showing up as we are all familiar with him, his TV appearances and participation in other cases. This means to me he feels the parents are guilty, will be arrested and charged and he will once again be in the limelight. I discredit anything he or the other lawyer brings out in the public like this last sold for 300 dollar thing.

The fact that the parents were not with LE each and every day, going through what they must go through to give LE everything they ask for - that really says a lot to me. I would have gotten a local lawyer if I felt I had been mistreated by LE when first questioned but with the understanding that I was still going to talk with LE. I would gladly give permission for the cheek swab for the boys to eliminate any confusion in evidence gathered.

Their lawyer who made the statement that parents said things were getting better each day shows the caliber of this lawyer and how unconcerned he is about their image.

We are being manipulated, a possible jury pool is being tainted, and in the meantime LE is still investigating and keeping their findings close to the vest as it should be. In this day and age, people are tried in the press and on the web - too sad.

BBM
great insight .I have found DB's attitude at times abrasive,especially when discussing drinking the wine. You hit the nail on the head. She doesn't seem remorseful at all for and that is suspicious to me ,as well.

Joe T. saw an opportunity and ran with it. He could care less about Lisa,IMO.

 

[MissJames]

RBBM... Whisperer, IMO the black tarp/window coverings were placed there by LE while they were doing Luminol testing.

As for your other questions, I just :dunno:

Or someone in the family might have done it to keep media and onlookers from taking pics. I don't find that suspicious ,just everything else the parents have done.:maddening:

 

[In da Middle]

Or someone in the family might have done it to keep media and onlookers from taking pics. I don't find that suspicious ,just everything else the parents have done.:maddening:

Where that window is, pictures taken of the inside from the outside are going to be nearly impossible. Even with a telephoto lens.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

We have a baby missing. The parents of the child are lawyered up. They are not pleading for the life of their child. They have retained several attorneys and will speak only with ABC (who happens to pay well).

A cadaver dog has hit in the home; one parent claims to have failed a poly; one parent claims to have been very drunk and passed out. The other parent working hours he never worked before.

What sort of criminal did this? It had to be one that is the luckiest sex addict or maniac known to mankind. The stars lined up for him and he hit the jackpot on Oct 3. He broke into the one home where the man of the house wasn't home for the very first time and the other parent was drunk as a skunk. This lucky criminal needs to be playing the lottery.

The parents did an interview with FOX so it's not true that they will only speak to ABC. From what I've seen, they talk to shows that have been regularly covering the case. For people who are supposedly money hungry, or have a deal with ABC, they haven't been doing that many interviews.

 

[DeAnn]

The parents did an interview with FOX so it's not true that they will only speak to ABC. From what I've seen, they talk to shows that have been regularly covering the case.

They have not spoken to local reporters in more than a month other than DB saying she was grieving and that's why she won't talk to local reporters.

 

[Nixie]

How could DB have been so drunk she passed out/blacked out but still had the ability to kill her daughter, hide the body well enough for the cops not to find with no one noticing and 2 other children in the house?I think that is the main thing I can't figure out. I think if she wasn't drunk she might have been able to do it, but if she was she had to have had help. her husband was working so who would help her hide the body? The cops where all over her and the house has soon has the parents called, I just don't see how she could have done it. I don't know who could have did it though just seems like there is something big I am missing...no matter what way I look at it imo someone else had to have been involved.

 

[MissJames]

How could DB have been so drunk she passed out/blacked out but still had the ability to kill her daughter, hide the body well enough for the cops not to find with no one noticing and 2 other children in the house?I think that is the main thing I can't figure out. I think if she wasn't drunk she might have been able to do it, but if she was she had to have had help. her husband was working so who would help her hide the body? The cops where all over her and the house has soon has the parents called, I just don't see how she could have done it. I don't know who could have did it though just seems like there is something big I am missing...no matter what way I look at it imo someone else had to have been involved.

I don't believe she was drunk enough to black out. IMO that was an excuse to claim "I don't know" or explain why her timelines have changed so drastically.

I also believe she did have help.I think someone else may have hidden baby Lisa's body.

I'm not even convinced Baby Lisa was still alive when JI went to work.
JMO

 

[Chewy]

We have a baby missing. The parents of the child are lawyered up. They are not pleading for the life of their child. They have retained several attorneys and will speak only with ABC (who happens to pay well).

A cadaver dog has hit in the home; one parent claims to have failed a poly; one parent claims to have been very drunk and passed out. The other parent working hours he never worked before.

What sort of criminal did this? It had to be one that is the luckiest sex addict or maniac known to mankind. The stars lined up for him and he hit the jackpot on Oct 3. He broke into the one home where the man of the house wasn't home for the very first time and the other parent was drunk as a skunk. This lucky criminal needs to be playing the lottery.

I've said the same thing. This would mean that this criminal knew them.

 

[OneLove]

How could DB have been so drunk she passed out/blacked out but still had the ability to kill her daughter, hide the body well enough for the cops not to find with no one noticing and 2 other children in the house?I think that is the main thing I can't figure out. I think if she wasn't drunk she might have been able to do it, but if she was she had to have had help. her husband was working so who would help her hide the body? The cops where all over her and the house has soon has the parents called, I just don't see how she could have done it. I don't know who could have did it though just seems like there is something big I am missing...no matter what way I look at it imo someone else had to have been involved.

Maybe she was drunk but NOT passed out, her daughter died by means unknown, she wasn't too drunk to use her cell phone to call a "compatriot" to come help, daughter AND cell phones go out the door, drunk mom takes child into bed with her as 'protection and distraction' when hard working father returns home.

It seems there were folk in the neighborhood who considered themselves as a close "community" of people. Close enough to share space, cell phones, and food stamps freely.

OR maybe mom wasn't drunk and just said so as cover. How far is the river?

After watching these folks for some time now, I'm tending toward believing the SIMPLEST and least complicated scenario, simply because I think the capacity for anything complicated just might not exist, kwim?

 

[Detective Klimpt]

I've been keeping up to date. I don't have a 'theory' and I suppose I fall into the 'haven't got a clue' bin. I do have some thoughts, that I feel pretty confident about, but just MOO.

1) I think Jersey started that dumpster fire and the fire that burned up MW's car. Whether it was related to Lisa's disappearance, I can't say.

2) There were no baby clothes found in that dumpster. It was reported just recently that the flames were so intense that all that was left in the dumpster was water. Therefore, LE was trying to set up DB by saying they found baby clothes.

3) I don't believe DB failed the Poly.

4) I tend not to believe the dog made a true hit.

5) I doubt that JI has such intense love for DB that he would support her and lie for her if he suspected she killed his child. They haven't been together for very long and probably the only reason they are together is she got pregnant with Lisa. He either believes she wasn't involved, or he is willing to risk jail time and lose his son for hiding evidence. Maybe I have him pegged wrong, but he seems like a decent guy that just gets involved with the wrong women.

6) I can see no reason why DB would not call 911 if she accidentally killed her baby and I definitely do not think she intentionally killed her baby. I can't imagine anyone other than someone that loves her immensely (brother is the only one that might qualify) or someone that got paid a lot of money (she doesn't have any) that would be willing to help her dispose of a body. Think about it. She is there with a dead baby, and has to be cool headed enough to think about who to call, the person she calls has to be available, and that person rushes over to her house (in a car with lights or on foot?), picks up a dead baby and vanishes without a trace. That's difficult for me to believe. The only thing I can think is that LE has a lot of evidence they've found and are not sharing with us.

7) How could DB call anyone to help dispose of a body when her phones did not work?

8) I think the calls made to MW at 11:58pm and 3am+ were definitely not made by DB. I think they were made by Jersey. I think he got hold of them earlier in the day or night. How, I don't know. I'd need to know when was the last time DB saw those phones on the counter.

Remember, DB thought JI was due to come home before midnight (plus or minus). It's known that Jersey hangs out in empty houses or maybe even sleeps in a yard for all we know. Why did the calls stop after 3am? Well, there could be several reasons. Even Jersey has to sleep sometime, right? Or, he sees police cars coming to the house at 4-5am and finds out about the abduction of BL. He'd better get rid of those phones quick.

9) I don't think Dane has anything to do with this case. I think he likely has some illegal stuff going on and would not like to have his call activity traced for that reason.

What still has me puzzled:

1) The lights being on. I might guess that the oldest boy got up in the middle of the night to go potty (after Lisa was taken) and turned them on. LE has to know this information from talking with the boys. DB would not be so stupid to leave the lights on after doing something with Lisa.

2) No motive for anyone, not even for DB. As I said above, I just do not think (or want to believe) that she would try to cover up an accident. I do not have the negative opinion of her that most females do. I think if she had not admitted to drinking, that she'd have a little more support from the masses. People have blown the drinking way out of proportion imo. Nobody really knows how much she drinks. JI is usually home at night, so he would be very aware if she was a drunk. Based on how he took control of his son, I think he would be kicking DB to the curb if he thought she wasn't a good mamma to Lisa.

3) When I look at BL's wardrobe and all the pics and video, I just don't want to believe that DB did anything to her. <sigh>

 

[askfornina]

great post, Detective Klimpt. keep them coming!