A month later... where is Lisa? What is your opinion?

[natsound]

Respectfully, is there a more credible news source than USA Today stating this "fact" about disturbed earth in the back yard?

Something from Reuters, or AP?

TIA for an alternate link.

The local stations reported the disturbed earth when it happened.... when the "big search" was conducted. It was right behind the shed, and they paid a lot of attention to the shed area that day.

 

[Well Done 99]

For those that can, please watch and keep your eyes on jeremy the whole time. What is it with him that bothers me? dang


Baby Lisa's Parents Take Questions From Reporters - YouTube

Turn the sound off and disregard what they're actually saying. IMO these are the faces of people who are sorry for what's happened ... not someone who is wondering.

 

[Elley Mae]

Turn the sound off and disregard what they're actually saying. IMO these are the faces of people who are sorry for what's happened ... not someone who is wondering.

That is a very good point, and now wondering if this is why they have stopped giving interviews.

 

[not_my_kids]

I think it was both of them. JI caused the injury that caused her death, and DB failed to call for help and started the cover-up.

 

[cityslick]

On the fence, I want to see evidence that this woman hurt and disposed her child. Not hearsay from the neighbors, not assumptions in the media and msg boards.

I will not accuse someone simply because they are not 100% cooperative. I will not accuse someone simply because that's the majority thinks. I will not accuse someone because of statistics.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Last night, while laying in bed, I started thinking about all the interviews I've seen with the parents. I always pay attention to speech patterns...not just in cases I follow, but in real life as well. It's the writer in me, I guess. I study real life dialogue in order to be authentic when writing dialogue for fictional characters. But I digress. Here are a few things I noticed with respect to DB in these interviews:

1. Her speech patterns change dramatically when she is uncomfortable with a question. JJP asks her about the open computer room window, and she begins to ramble incoherently about when she normally opens the windows, how high off the ground her bedroom window is, when she might or might not open the boys window, etc. etc. This goes on for quite a while until the discuss is now derailed from the window. MK asks DB and JI about the lights being on or off, and just as JI starts to answer, DB interupts JI and starts telling MK about how JI always follows her around turning off lights, how he only allows her to have the light over the stove on at night, etc. etc. And she giggles about this. Another reporter asks the parents why Lisa wouldn't cry if a stranger woke her to remove her from her crib. Again, JI starts to answer, and DB interupts him with a rambling account of how Lisa might cry, but maybe wouldn't if she was cuddled, etc. etc. Just a few examples to illustrate my point...DB rambles incessantly when she doesn't want to answer a question. The questions I've noted her doing this on are questions about the cell phones, the window, the lights, where the boys were sleeping that night, and Lisa herself. What do those things have in common? In my opinion...staging.

2. Another thing I've noticed is that she almost cunningly attempts to misdirect an interviewer when she doesn't want to even discuss a particular topic. She uses histrionics to accomplish this. JJP asks her about the window left open, and suddenly she becomes overwhelmed with tears, buries her face in JI's chest, and can't go on. She does this for a long time until it finally works on JJP. Rather than press her about the window, JJP feels obligated to sympathize. She stops asking about the window, and instead says, "I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you." The discussion about the window stops there. DB also does this with the local reports on the 2 day after Lisa goes missing.

3. The third thing I noticed with respect to her speech pattern changes is defensiveness and attitude. You don't see this very often from DB. You don't even see it when she's discussing LE accusing her of doing something to her child. In fact, the ONLY time I've seen it is when the questions of her drinking that night are brought up. She's downright flippant in some of her responses. It's a "how dare you judge me" sort of attitude. Why is this important? Well, I could guess...but I'll leave it up to whoever reads this to ponder what that might mean.

All MOO, of course.

 

[Pacific2011]

Re: the parents being afraid of losing custody of their boys if the parents were found negligent:

If the parents had called 911 after a fatal accidental injury to Baby Lisa, perhaps they were afraid the baby's blood would be tested and an unusual substance (perhaps alcohol?) would be found.

Just a thought and JMO.

 

[mlc9852]

On the fence, I want to see evidence that this woman hurt and disposed her child. Not hearsay from the neighbors, not assumptions in the media and msg boards.

I will not accuse someone simply because they are not 100% cooperative. I will not accuse someone simply because that's the majority thinks. I will not accuse someone because of statistics.

I'm still concerned about the supposedly failed polygraph and cadaver dog hit as well as the refusal to allow the boys to be interviewed again. Hard to believe DB is innocent.

 

[tink92]

Last night, while laying in bed, I started thinking about all the interviews I've seen with the parents. I always pay attention to speech patterns...not just in cases I follow, but in real life as well. It's the writer in me, I guess. I study real life dialogue in order to be authentic when writing dialogue for fictional characters. But I digress. Here are a few things I noticed with respect to DB in these interviews:

1. Her speech patterns change dramatically when she is uncomfortable with a question. JJP asks her about the open computer room window, and she begins to ramble incoherently about when she normally opens the windows, how high off the ground her bedroom window is, when she might or might not open the boys window, etc. etc. This goes on for quite a while until the discuss is now derailed from the window. MK asks DB and JI about the lights being on or off, and just as JI starts to answer, DB interupts JI and starts telling MK about how JI always follows her around turning off lights, how he only allows her to have the light over the stove on at night, etc. etc. And she giggles about this. Another reporter asks the parents why Lisa wouldn't cry if a stranger woke her to remove her from her crib. Again, JI starts to answer, and DB interupts him with a rambling account of how Lisa might cry, but maybe wouldn't if she was cuddled, etc. etc. Just a few examples to illustrate my point...DB rambles incessantly when she doesn't want to answer a question. The questions I've noted her doing this on are questions about the cell phones, the window, the lights, where the boys were sleeping that night, and Lisa herself. What do those things have in common? In my opinion...staging.

2. Another thing I've noticed is that she almost cunningly attempts to misdirect an interviewer when she doesn't want to even discuss a particular topic. She uses histrionics to accomplish this. JJP asks her about the window left open, and suddenly she becomes overwhelmed with tears, buries her face in JI's chest, and can't go on. She does this for a long time until it finally works on JJP. Rather than press her about the window, JJP feels obligated to sympathize. She stops asking about the window, and instead says, "I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you." The discussion about the window stops there. DB also does this with the local reports on the 2 day after Lisa goes missing.

3. The third thing I noticed with respect to her speech pattern changes is defensiveness and attitude. You don't see this very often from DB. You don't even see it when she's discussing LE accusing her of doing something to her child. In fact, the ONLY time I've seen it is when the questions of her drinking that night are brought up. She's downright flippant in some of her responses. It's a "how dare you judge me" sort of attitude. Why is this important? Well, I could guess...but I'll leave it up to whoever reads this to ponder what that might mean.

All MOO, of course.

I agree with your last point Kat. I was struck by how defensive DB became when asked about her drinking. When asked if she was drunk...she did become almost flippant and made the uhhuh noise nodding. To me it seems like DB believes that whatever happened that night was NOT because of her drinking and she seems adamant not to be judged for "adult time"

Of course many would argue that being drunk was irresponsible and maybe if she was sobre she would have checked on lisa earlier...but I do not believe from DB's reaction to her being drunk that there was any accident due to her drinking. If Lisas death arose from a drunken deb then I think she would not be being so flippant when asked about her drinking.

Iam rambling now,...:waitasec:....It makes sense to me anyway.:crazy:

I still beleive this was most probably an abduction. MOO

 

[yllek]

I think Debbi Bradley is responsible for Lisa's disappearance. I believe that Lisa is deceased, but hope that she is alive.

I don't believe there was any accident. Debbi Bradley and Jeremy Irwin were indignant at the suggestion that they would cover up an accident. So, if they are found to be involved, it was intentional and there should be no credence lent to an accidental death simply because we would rather not believe that a parent would willfully hurt her child, imo.

Source: Megyn Kelley - Fox Interview of 10/17/11
JI: ”Yeah, uh, yeah, they did, very the same thing. They first told me it was her, then later, they told me it was me and that an accident had happened, or, yeah.”
MK: “What about that, because that is one of the theories that people speculate about. That, it’s not that you two hurt your daughter, but maybe she had an accident in that house and then you panicked.”
DB: “That’s what 911 is for. That’s the only answer I have for that. All the ideas that people have on what me or him might have done, or, it’s just sick.” ​

I don't know if Debbi had help removing Lisa from the home and relocating her. If so, I lean towards a member of her family (Netz); blood ties. Or, a neighbor who is very close with Debbi. I question whether Debbi's father really lent her his phone the day before, or if his phone is missing for some other reason. Not sure on that.

My belief that Debbi is responsible was solidified over the last week. If she did not know what happened to Lisa (and if her PI and lawyers were still not sure), Debbi's team would not have gone silent and cancelled the boys' CPS interviews. They would still be all over the talk shows and hammering on the recent Jersey and Megan info with as much or more vigor than they did the unidentifiable "white blob". The silence regarding these developments convinced me beyond reasonable doubt that Debbi knows for sure what happened. Debbi either (1) knows Jersey and Megan were involved (meaning she was too) and she and her team are keeping public distance from them because they can incriminate Debbi, or (2) Debbi knows for a fact that Jersey and Megan are not at all involved (meaning she knows for sure what did happen to Lisa). If Debbi truly has no idea and believes Lisa was taken, she and her team would be all over LE for more information about how these two local figures fit in; the possibility of a local couple being involved would look to them like the best lead yet and represent hope that Lisa could be found. The PI and lawyers would be having a field day in the media, like they did with the supposed sightings and the blob surveillance. But, they went cold silent instead. I think the public emergence of ties between Megan and Jersey may have led to some eye-opening discussions between the parents and their "team". For some reason, the parents' "team" knows that it is not in their clients' best interest to pounce on these two local figures who make very attractive potential suspects. Debbi knows, imo.

Not sure if Jeremy knew before the amber alert, but he knows now, imo. If he believed Lisa could still be alive and he loved his daughter, he would be fighting for Lisa and would authorize his son to be interviewed by professional CPS specialists. He would be desperate to know what his son may have heard or seen; he would be doggedly seeking any information that might bring Lisa back to him, despite what his girlfriend and their legal team advised. He is not. So, imo, he either cares less about Lisa than following orders, or he knows Debbi did something to Lisa and Lisa's not coming home (or he was involved with whatever happened to Lisa).

These are Just My Opinions based on the facts and information released as of the 1 month mark. They are subject to change as we learn more.

:heart: Where is Lisa Irwin? :heart:

 

[natsound]

I've noticed DB's use of the word "absolutely" in two instances... Only one comes to mind right now... When interviewed by J. Pirro, DB stated she didn't think the intruder came thru the window. When interviewed by M. Kelly, her story had further solidified and her answer was "absolutely" when asked if the intruder could have used the window. IMO it signals a lie.

 

[jenbo1]

First of all, I believe that DB is 25 years old-forgive me if I am off by a year or so! I know plenty of people who have consumed too much alcohol, myself included, while at home with their small children, and nobody ever died as a result of this. It is totally irresponsible-I am not denying that. It is my opinion that younger mothers make these types of mistakes more often than older mothers. I am not judging DB by her drinking unless it is ever proven that she had something to do with whatever happened to Baby Lisa.

I am still on the fence about DB. I do not think that JI had anything to do with it, nor do I think that he is covering for DB. With the recent information about SB and her husband and Jersey and MW, I am convinced that there is FAR more to this story than we know. I do think that if DB were responsible, she would have caved in and confessed by now. It is my opinion that the entire group of people involved in this are not savvy enough to murder, cover up, and hide the body without leaving a trace. Especially if alcohol and drugs were involved. I think that either we will never find out what happened, or when we do, it will be something completely different than we ever expected. JMO JMO JMO

 

[Jacie Estes]

I agree with your last point Kat. I was struck by how defensive DB became when asked about her drinking. When asked if she was drunk...she did become almost flippant and made the uhhuh noise nodding. To me it seems like DB believes that whatever happened that night was NOT because of her drinking and she seems adamant not to be judged for "adult time"

Of course many would argue that being drunk was irresponsible and maybe if she was sobre she would have checked on lisa earlier...but I do not believe from DB's reaction to her being drunk that there was any accident due to her drinking. If Lisas death arose from a drunken deb then I think she would not be being so flippant when asked about her drinking.
Iam rambling now,...:waitasec:....It makes sense to me anyway.:crazy:

I still beleive this was most probably an abduction. MOO

BBM

I think you are right about this; if it were indeed her fault, she would be hysterical then thinking about her daughter's lifeless body. That is not what we see.

Just as the Walshes, the Smarts and other parents with missing children have done, JI and DB met with the police, DB took a lie detector test and JI didn't need one. They cooperated to the point that the murder accusations were thrown at them. They both met with police for hours. Someone, the anonymous benefactor, seeing what was going on in the media set up a legal defense for them. JI and DB are a housewife and an electrician, they are not sophisticated people who know how to maneuver the murky waters of child abduction. I do think that they were right to retreat; as we saw, the Ramsey's did the same and more. These parents are not Casey Anthony or Susan Smith and they can't be painted with the same broad brush.

While I believe that DB exhibited poor judgement that night, that is something we all have done. We have all had a 'what if' moment; for DB the what if is 'Would her daughter still be with them?'. I don't see someone who caused the death of her child, I see a young woman who is distraught, her words 'grieving', who is living a public nightmare and humiliation and is trying to maintain some sort of normalcy for her two boys, I use the term 'her boys', she and JI have chosen to be a family and they are her boys. Right now a member of their family is missing and I fervently hope that she will be returned to her family; preferably alive, if that is not to be, returned at least so that they can lay her to rest.

 

[tink92]

BBM

I think you are right about this; if it were indeed her fault, she would be hysterical then thinking about her daughter's lifeless body. That is not what we see.

Just as the Walshes, the Smarts and other parents with missing children have done, JI and DB met with the police, DB took a lie detector test and JI didn't need one. They cooperated to the point that the murder accusations were thrown at them. They both met with police for hours. Someone, the anonymous benefactor, seeing what was going on in the media set up a legal defense for them. JI and DB are a housewife and an electrician, they are not sophisticated people who know how to maneuver the murky waters of child abduction. I do think that they were right to retreat; as we saw, the Ramsey's did the same and more. These parents are not Casey Anthony or Susan Smith and they can't be painted with the same broad brush.

While I believe that DB exhibited poor judgement that night, that is something we all have done. We have all had a 'what if' moment; for DB the what if is 'Would her daughter still be with them?'. I don't see someone who caused the death of her child, I see a young woman who is distraught, her words 'grieving', who is living a public nightmare and humiliation and is trying to maintain some sort of normalcy for her two boys, I use the term 'her boys', she and JI have chosen to be a family and they are her boys. Right now a member of their family is missing and I fervently hope that she will be returned to her family; preferably alive, if that is not to be, returned at least so that they can lay her to rest.

Thanking your post is not enough!...i agree with every single word you wrote!!:gthanks:

Its exactly what my thinking has been..you have expressed it so well!

 

[Sparklin]

I'm not sure where to add this so I'll put it here and will move or delete if necessary:

As for Deb not checking on Lisa. If I put my child down at 6:40, totally content and tired and comfy, closed her door so the boys didn't disturb her, I would be 'listening' for her when I went inside, but I wouldn't be opening her door to physically see her. Apparently DB believed JI would be home earlier so perhaps she went to bed at 10:30 after having too much to drink .. figuring if Lisa woke either she would have to get up or JI would take care of her...jmo I just think that not physically checking on a sleeping 10 month old in a normal sleeping time frame isn't unusual or evil. JMO

 

[SheRa]

I answered "DB is responsible," but like many of you, I also believe JI knows something, and/or is helping to cover up something.

In my opinion, there are several things which, alone, point tremendously towards DB (and possibly JI) knowing that their daughter is dead and not missing, and that they may be responsible somehow:

-The parents' stories have changed several times

-The stories themselves don't seem to make much sense (abductor stole cellphones, baby put to bed at odd time, no one checking on baby for oddly long amount of time, etc.)

-LE has indicated a reluctance to cooperate fully

-The parents are not giving LE full access to interview potential witnesses (the boys)

-This may be subjective, but the parents do not seem to be doing everything they possibly can to be out searching for their daughter

I think any of the above would be enough to cast some doubt on the parents' innocence, but taken together they cast significant and (IMO) very reasonable doubt on an abductor theory.

Like everyone else here, I hope the parents are NOT involved. I also know that other parents, innocent parents, have been initially painted as suspects by police/media/etc., so it's not entirely out of the question that that's what is happening here. Nevertheless, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc...:rubberducky:

 

[Boodles]

Just as the Walshes, the Smarts and other parents with missing children have done, JI and DB met with the police, DB took a lie detector test and JI didn't need one. They cooperated to the point that the murder accusations were thrown at them. They both met with police for hours. Someone, the anonymous benefactor, seeing what was going on in the media set up a legal defense for them. JI and DB are a housewife and an electrician, they are not sophisticated people who know how to maneuver the murky waters of child abduction. I do think that they were right to retreat; as we saw, the Ramsey's did the same and more. These parents are not Casey Anthony or Susan Smith and they can't be painted with the same broad brush.

The Ramsey child was dead! The Walshes did everything necessary to get themselves ruled out, just like Mark Klaas did. They didn't worry about themselves and their own 'discomfort' at being possibly suspected. They didn't get their egos bent out of shape at being asked pointed questions...they had a missing baby and they knew they themselves were not complicit.

And as to maneuvering the murky waters of child abduction, the FBI was there, trying to work with the family to extract information to find the baby. An innocent person with nothing to hide would forge right through that process with insistence that they get past the parents and onto the abductor.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Last night, while laying in bed, I started thinking about all the interviews I've seen with the parents. I always pay attention to speech patterns...not just in cases I follow, but in real life as well. It's the writer in me, I guess. I study real life dialogue in order to be authentic when writing dialogue for fictional characters. But I digress. Here are a few things I noticed with respect to DB in these interviews:

1. Her speech patterns change dramatically when she is uncomfortable with a question. JJP asks her about the open computer room window, and she begins to ramble incoherently about when she normally opens the windows, how high off the ground her bedroom window is, when she might or might not open the boys window, etc. etc. This goes on for quite a while until the discuss is now derailed from the window. MK asks DB and JI about the lights being on or off, and just as JI starts to answer, DB interupts JI and starts telling MK about how JI always follows her around turning off lights, how he only allows her to have the light over the stove on at night, etc. etc. And she giggles about this. Another reporter asks the parents why Lisa wouldn't cry if a stranger woke her to remove her from her crib. Again, JI starts to answer, and DB interupts him with a rambling account of how Lisa might cry, but maybe wouldn't if she was cuddled, etc. etc. Just a few examples to illustrate my point...DB rambles incessantly when she doesn't want to answer a question. The questions I've noted her doing this on are questions about the cell phones, the window, the lights, where the boys were sleeping that night, and Lisa herself. What do those things have in common? In my opinion...staging.

2. Another thing I've noticed is that she almost cunningly attempts to misdirect an interviewer when she doesn't want to even discuss a particular topic. She uses histrionics to accomplish this. JJP asks her about the window left open, and suddenly she becomes overwhelmed with tears, buries her face in JI's chest, and can't go on. She does this for a long time until it finally works on JJP. Rather than press her about the window, JJP feels obligated to sympathize. She stops asking about the window, and instead says, "I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you." The discussion about the window stops there. DB also does this with the local reports on the 2 day after Lisa goes missing.

3. The third thing I noticed with respect to her speech pattern changes is defensiveness and attitude. You don't see this very often from DB. You don't even see it when she's discussing LE accusing her of doing something to her child. In fact, the ONLY time I've seen it is when the questions of her drinking that night are brought up. She's downright flippant in some of her responses. It's a "how dare you judge me" sort of attitude. Why is this important? Well, I could guess...but I'll leave it up to whoever reads this to ponder what that might mean.

All MOO, of course.

This is among the finest posts I've ever seen on WS. Thanks for your astute observations that I've thought about all day since reading your post this morning.

 

[panthera]

My belief still is that DB is responsible for whatever happened to Lisa, and reinforced even more so during the past month by her admission of drinking (too much) that evening.

I found in the very beginning the scenario of an intruder who kidnaps a baby while also stealing cell phones to be unbelievable. Too convenient is DB's lack of recollection of the front window was left open, the front door unlocked, whether the lights were on or off, etc. And totally irresponsible for a mother to not even check on an allegedly sick baby after 6:40pm while she drank wine with the neighbor for approximately four hours afterward.

Unfortunately sometime during the night I believe Lisa was killed, either by accident or intent, and DB enlisted someone's assistance in disposing of her body, perhaps in the river.


MOO

 

[Whisperer]

The point is, and obvious to many, is that DB has a drinking problem. I can say this because she has never felt her drinking affected her children, despite one of them missing when she woke up. She staunchly defends her drinking and says everyone forgets what happens when they drink....not so. She has taken zero responsibility for her behavior.

The fact remains that neither parent have wanted their children questioned even if could have resulted in finding Lisa. The clock is ticking now and all hope is almost lost as the children's minds are being programmed either intentionally or not.

In the video posted on the first day, neither parent referred to their baby as "Lisa". They both said her or she. I found that very strange as most would be screaming the name of the child to come home in those first few hours and not using the term "her".

The fact that they hired Criminal Defense Attorneys doesn't bide well. No parent needs a criminal defense attorney when their child goes missing....unless there is something the pubic doesn't know and they must protect. It doesn't hurt my ego if I am wrong but something is just not right with these two.