A Pre Meditated Murder? or Accidental?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Pre Meditated Murder Yes or No

  • I have always thought it was pre meditated.

    Votes: 297 36.0%
  • After reading the latest documents I now believe it was pre meditated.

    Votes: 266 32.2%
  • I "absolutely" believe it was not pre meditated.

    Votes: 54 6.5%
  • I am still sitting on the fence and am not sure.

    Votes: 209 25.3%

  • Total voters
    826
  • Poll closed .
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Are you sure?

That hypothetical sounds like a sudden act of rage. Would that warrant a Murder1 conviction?

Such as the person crossing the road had just been acquitted of the rape of the driver's five year old daughter, because a tape the dead man had made of the rape was ruled inadmissible as evidence based on it having being collected outside the scope of a search warrrant.
 
Your defense attorney should argue otherwise; i.e., that you did not have time to deliberate on your action.

Very true, but a good prosecutor would argue by accelerating my car I was deliberately trying to hit this person with said car, showing no regard for the life of this person. I am a person who knows right from wrong, and am fully aware hitting someone with my car could kill them.
Lanie
 
Are you sure?

That hypothetical sounds like a sudden act of rage. Would that warrant a Murder1 conviction?

Such as the person crossing the road had just been acquitted of the rape of the driver's five year old daughter, because a tape the dead man had made of the rape was ruled inadmissible as evidence based on it having being collected outside the scope of a search warrrant.

If it was circumstances as Wudge describes, of course other charges could come into play. But as I posted, what information did I give that would lead to the conclusion of rage?
Wudge, nowhere in my hypothetical did I state this person I ran over did anything to me to make it an act of revenge. If you are going to just add whatever you want to make it fit what you are saying, this doesn't actually constitute a fair debate.
Lanie
 
LOL I voted by accident, no premeditation. I guess, I am a mother and grandmother and emotionally I could not find myself thinking that she pre-planned this and maybe that is why. I have read all the posts and have an open mind too. Until I see evidence that it was pre-planned I can't. Boy, I am glad that this isn't in the jury room. Thanks.
We don't even know yet if it was an accident.

I don't like that explanation at all!!!
But I am open to evidence presented to indicate and prove that. There would still be a range of nasty things to charge KC with.
 
If it was circumstances as Wudge describes, of course other charges could come into play. But as I posted, what information did I give that would lead to the conclusion of rage?
Wudge, nowhere in my hypothetical did I state this person I ran over did anything to me to make it an act of revenge. If you are going to just add whatever you want to make it fit what you are saying, this doesn't actually constitute a fair debate.
Lanie
I feel an insanity plea coming on?
 
If it was circumstances as Wudge describes, of course other charges could come into play. But as I posted, what information did I give that would lead to the conclusion of rage?
Wudge, nowhere in my hypothetical did I state this person I ran over did anything to me to make it an act of revenge. If you are going to just add whatever you want to make it fit what you are saying, this doesn't actually constitute a fair debate.
Lanie

(chuckle)

I was trying to save you from the chair, call it my weakness.

:)
 
If I were driving down the road, without a care in the world, just jamming to some tunes, and saw someone crossing the street 10 feet in front of me, accelerated my car, hit this person, and they died, I would be guilty of premeditated murder. By accelerating, I would be showing intent, reckless disregard for human life, etc. It is not determined by the amount of time between the decision and the act, it is determined by the circumstances of the act.
Hope that helps.
Lanie

I get what you're saying Lanie. So if I were to read this account of death in the newspaper with no other information expept for what you have provided above. I would have to ask myself these questions:
1. Can premeditated murder be proven when there was only 10 feet in which to accelerate, how many seconds were available to you the driver to make the choice to hit the accelerator. You didn't say how fast you were going, so it may have been anywhere from 1 second to 3 or 4 seconds?
I would then wonder if there were any witnesses to this act. I would also wonder why your defense attorney hasn't presented that you accidently hit the accelerator thinking it was the brakes, or if it is proven that it was intentional that you didn't realize that you were going to kill him but just bump him with your bumper given that you only had a distance of 10 feet to make a decision to take this persons life.

I do get the point your trying to make. Just giving another perspective on how others may view this incident that you described.
 
Until I see evidence that it was pre-planned I can't. Boy, I am glad that this isn't in the jury room. Thanks.
Okay, then what do you make of the computer searches of neck-breaking, shovels, chloroform, missing children, and the name ZF-G?????
 
(chuckle)

I was trying to save you from the chair, call it my weakness.

:)

Well, thank you very much. I will certainly call you to be my defense attorney should the need ever arise. :blowkiss:
Lanie
 
Okay, then what do you make of the computer searches of neck-breaking, shovels, chloroform, missing children, and the name ZF-G?????

Where do I find the exact date of the ZFG search? I thought I read were it was July not March as the others? TIA
 
I get what you're saying Lanie. So if I were to read this account of death in the newspaper with no other information expept for what you have provided above. I would have to ask myself these questions:
1. Can premeditated murder be proven when there was only 10 feet in which to accelerate, how many seconds were available to you the driver to make the choice to hit the accelerator. You didn't say how fast you were going, so it may have been anywhere from 1 second to 3 or 4 seconds?
I would then wonder if there were any witnesses to this act. I would also wonder why your defense attorney hasn't presented that you accidently hit the accelerator thinking it was the brakes, or if it is proven that it was intentional that you didn't realize that you were going to kill him but just bump him with your bumper given that you only had a distance of 10 feet to make a decision to take this persons life.

I do get the point your trying to make. Just giving another perspective on how others may view this incident that you described.

LOL, I repeat, I would be guilty of premeditated murder. That doesn't mean I would be charged with it, convicted of it, etc.
Lanie
 
LOL, I repeat, I would be guilty of premeditated murder. That doesn't mean I would be charged with it, convicted of it, etc.
Lanie

Ahh now I really get what you're trying to say:) Sorry it was a very long Christmas vacation with five kids here (plus their friends, their friends friends...haha)
 
You know what I found interesting? It has been reported that when KC was told of the body being found, she started crying, dropped to her knees, said "I can't believe this is happening" and ask for a sedative. How did she know it was Caylee?

Bolded by me.

The reason that she reacted like that this time as opposed the non-reaction she exhibited when the "bones" were found by divers in JBP was that KC knew it was Caylee since it was KC that dumped her in the woods at that exact location.

I'm sure that the "I can't believe this is happening" wasn't in regard to the possibility that her daughter was dead but it was more like "I can't believe they actually found her, I thought I hid her well enough. Oh F^ck, I'm in a world of chit now!"

Pure speculation, I know, but if the shoe fits and it's KC's it's probably got dog poop on it. :crazy:
 
The reason that she reacted like that this time as opposed the non-reaction she exhibited when the "bones" were found by divers in JBP was that KC knew it was Caylee since it was KC that dumped her in the woods at that exact location.

I'm sure that the "I can't believe this is happening" wasn't in regard to the possibility that her daughter was dead but it was more like "I can't believe they actually found her, I thought I hid her well enough. Oh F^ck, I'm in a world of chit now!"

:crazy:

Yeah, that was my take on it too. I think they should have told her the location first, before confirming it was Caylee and filmed her reaction, that would be good evidence!
 
The reason that she reacted like that this time as opposed the non-reaction she exhibited when the "bones" were found by divers in JBP was that KC knew it was Caylee since it was KC that dumped her in the woods at that exact location.
Yes indeed. I also noticed that when the "bones" were found at JBP, Cindy and George carried on at the KidFinders tent saying it was nothing till someone told them it was something, they didnt seem one bit bothered. Fast forward to finding Caylee - they immediately went into hiding though she wasnt identified for over a week. I am not one to think they had anything to do with the death of Caylee at all but this little thing bothers me and it does make me wonder if they knew where she was.
 
Cross-posted on the computer forensics thread, but appropriate here as well, IMHO.

Muzikman uploaded KC's photobucket images to icons157.zip. I downloaded these last night and looked through the files today. There are several thousand images here, most of them "icons" with a few hundred pictures of Casey, Caylee, and friends scattered throughout. Most of the pictures have been posted on the web, and a few of the icons.

Executive Summary: Since many won't read my long-winded analysis, I will cut to the chase. Having analyzed KC's Photobucket uploads and the patterns of the uploads, I am convinced now more than ever that the searches for chloroform, household weapons, etc. in mid-March 2008 were meaningless and unconnected to the death of Caylee.

I looked at several things when examining this CD: Date / time files were uploaded, the content of the image or picture that was uploaded, the "theme" of the images, and whether or not "clustering" of images occurred (uploads of several pictures having the same theme at the same time).

Here is a summary of what I found along with some conclusions I drew:
1. Prior to June 16, KC almost always uploaded files before 8:30 AM, from 1:00 PM to 3:00 PM, and after 8:30 PM. While there are a very small handful of exceptions, the overall pattern is very clear.
I would conclude from the above that KC was on the computer when Caylee was asleep (evening) or napping. Nap time seems to be roughly 1 to 3 PM, based on computer activity.

2. Uploads after 6/16 clearly break the pattern established pre-6/16.

I would conclude that KC is no longer worrying about Caylee's sleep habits.

3. KC uploads in "themes". Multiple themes are often uploaded in a single day, within a very short (minutes) period of time. A theme might be tattoos, love, boyfriends, gangstas, or oral sex.

I would conclude that KC has "internet ADD". She spends a very short period of time on one topic and then bounces into another. I think her twelve minutes of chloroform and household weapons searches fall into this category. It is almost like Homer Simpson talking philosophy and then stopping to pick up a penny he found on a sidewalk.


4. KC likes images of skulls, tatoos, suggestions of being a *advertiser censored* or *advertiser censored*, and partying.

5. Many of the sayings or quotes collected by KC refer to relationships in either a serious or dark-humor manner.

6. By far the largest and most graphic collection of icons and quotes of a sexual nature were posted mid-2007. By comparison the images uploaded after January 2008 are pretty lame.

While these are not images of KC, I believe that these are the images the FBI was referring to when interviewing George.

7. The largest collection of skulls and other "dark images" also occurred in 2007.

8. The largest collection of party images occurred in 2007 and early January 2008.

9. KC clearly spent a substantial amount of time searching for and collecting the images.
Standing back and putting the chloroform searches into a better context than reasoned above in my earlier posts, I think KC was originally searching for an image similar to the "Win her over ... with chloroform" image, and this search took her to women's self-defense site, then to weapon's sites, then to a zombie poll...then after 12 minutes she got bored and "found a penny", moving on to something else.

Living her life 10 minutes at a time.
 
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