a view from the inside: observations from our own court observers #8

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OMG, I just read that and immediately started to cry..prollly the most precious question I've ever been asked. (sigh...) And to answer it; In a heartbeat, my dear, in a heartbeat. As I said before, you are one extraordinary woman. :)


I need one too....
 
KCL: first off, I hope you are having a relaxing and rejuvenating weekend. You certainly deserve it. Along with the multitude of others, I want to thank you for all you do AND for the incredibly personal and touching way that you do it. Your posts are amazingly personal, and your empathy for Travis and his family just burst forth off the page. You have a true gift in helping/healing others. I hope you have someone like you in your life!

MOO AND ALL SPECULATION: I just was on the legal Q&A page and a thought occurred to me re: AVL approaching Samantha in court. With the added information AVL gave in court while on the stand in answer to jurors' questions that she KNEW it was illegal to approach the family, I am wondering if what she may have said to Samantha is something like, "I can't help it - you all wouldn't talk to me." It seems like the sort of blame-it-on-the-victim rationalization that is classic AVL/JA style.
 
Is it Monday yet?? Is it Monday yet? Is it Monday yet??:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:



i have never ever wished away a weekend, but since this case has started I cant wait for the damn weekend to be over :please: only 2 more sleeps! hahaha yippee!!
 
I'm lurker from way back to the Scott Peterson days and rarely feel the need to add to all the wonderful observations here on WS but the time has come.... IMHO AVL is out of touch with today's fast paced, instant communication world.... which also brings with it ALOT more exposure to some simple facts of life that apparently in her 'non-tech' world she has not experienced...which definitely brings her 'expertise' into question...how can she be an expert in something she doesn't understand...relationships come and go quickly in the text world...teenagers say they are "going out" with someone but in reality all they do is text with someone 24/7 and maybe see them at school but they break up as quickly as they started...today's instant communication world has killed romance and anticipation...but getting to my point...lol....men & woman have impure thoughts and fantasize and they always have they just weren't broadcast to the world via text messages etc... the whole '12 yr old girl' implication is just a ridiculous character assasination that I'm sure the jury will disregard (especially the men). Men look, leer and fantasize some are subtle about it but they do! My overall feeling is that the 'expert' is cooked and it's time for her to take her punishment and go home! Thx for indulging me:) #JusticeForTravis&family
 
KCL: first off, I hope you are having a relaxing and rejuvenating weekend. You certainly deserve it. Along with the multitude of others, I want to thank you for all you do AND for the incredibly personal and touching way that you do it. Your posts are amazingly personal, and your empathy for Travis and his family just burst forth off the page. You have a true gift in helping/healing others. I hope you have someone like you in your life!

MOO AND ALL SPECULATION: I just was on the legal Q&A page and a thought occurred to me re: AVL approaching Samantha in court. With the added information AVL gave in court while on the stand in answer to jurors' questions that she KNEW it was illegal to approach the family, I am wondering if what she may have said to Samantha is something like, "I can't help it - you all wouldn't talk to me." It seems like the sort of blame-it-on-the-victim rationalization that is classic AVL/JA style.


First thank you so much and everyone else too. I'm still in bed wondering where my butler is with my breakfast in bed or at least coffee. ;)

I think the the Sam approach thing was addressed already unless JM madd some kind of formal complaint. I am getting calls by the media this morning though about it...interesting huh? I'm sure they are just speculating like everyone else.


I noticed how when ALV was trying to elaborate on it being against the law to interview the family, there was an objection then JW asked a new question. I do not think its illegal for her to interview a victim with their consent. It is my personal belief they wouldn't have refused talking to her. I do think though, given the option, the family would have refused an ambush of any kind in the courtroom right in the middle of her trashing testimony of Travis. But she didn't give them that "right of refusal". She just walked up to he with her head down and blasted in to her personal space instead of using to the bathroom as she requested. Blah
 
I thought this was just me! My laptop was stuck "installing 6 of 7 updates" and it said that when I left for work in the morning. I just held the power button until it went off, unplugged power cable for a minute, plugged it back in and restarted it and it ran fine after that. I have no idea what Microsoft did, but they f'd up something...

What you did is called a "hard reset", which works 95% of the time. This was likely not a power problem...but a software "loop" with the screwed -up updates. I suggest that you go into the Control Panel- security settings and "disable" automatic updates". You can "enable" it again at a later date. The past few days of MS updates have been very problematic...not loading completely, some not fully installing...causing total system chaos and failures. I disabled mine for now.
 
Any of Travis actions defensive vs abusive? "beyond defensive" How about 29 stab wounds? No note taking

Makes me wonder if JM will call a sibling to refute this abusive childhood stuff.

Tried to get as complete a story as I could get--BS--you didn't interview on person who knew Travis.

How quickly abuse escalate? Maureen, Nancy, note taking, also Barb

? re: Deanna, on and off for 7 years yet didn't you say Travis only had short term relationships. Busted.

Thank you! This has been irritating me to no end, the fact that ALV repeatedly said Travis had no long term relationships (and her assessment of what that meant: shallow, sexually motivated, etc. Gross lies.), when ALV knows full well she is painting an entirely false picture. I was so excited a jury question pulled that lie out of her. Woo-hooo!!!
I wanted Juan to rip that one open on his cross, or was hoping Deanna would refute that via testimony. Happy you noted it here at the very least!!! Thanks! :)
 
I need one too....

I hope you feel the love and comradery of your fellow websleuthers, chijojo. :grouphug: to you. Your loss is so new, so raw. Thinking of you and holding you in my prayers every day.
 
I believe she said on the stand during jury questions something to the effect of "now that I've seen the testimony" or "now that I've read the testimony" - especially in relation to JA shooting Travis in the closet.

I believe this was in response to information provided by JM. He often introduces previous testimony to which she is not privy, until he presents it to her, and asks her whether, in light of this new information, she would re-evaluate her stance. (Her response has staunchly been a pro-defense, "no.")

I don't think ALV is reading tweets and message boards or any online material about the trial. She seems to be something of a Luddite; she has NO understanding of text messages or "g-mails," as she refers to email. She has repeatedly shown a lack of understanding of, for example, the abbreviated nature of text-speak, choosing to label it as "abusive" rather than what it really is: sparing our thumbs a few keystrokes. I find it unbelievable that she would be "stressed" to the point of near-breakdown (as has been described) by these things, having demonstrated her lack of awareness of electronic communication by any means.

Similarly, her views of things such as Brazilians (indicative of pedophilia? Well, while I know some men who prefer that things be au naturel---and for the stated reason that they are squeamish about having their partners look prepubescent) demonstrate a HUGE lack of familiarity with current trends. What was fashionable in the 1960s and 1970s has changed. Some of us have changed along with this, and some have not; most of us are at least aware of these changes. I have great faith that the men and women on the jury will largely be aware of what is going on in the world around them---and if some do not, that the others will reassure them that NOTHING out of the mainstream is evident in ANYTHING we know about Travis Alexander. (I mean, really: arguing that a 30-year-old man lying about his virginity is evidence of a sinister double life is laughable. Few openly discuss their sex lives; it's not lying, it's discretion.) That Travis Alexander's tastes and curiosities varied--in this new century---from those of a 1970s-era feminist lesbian who had demonstrated, time and again, that she is NOT current professionally or culturally, is not at all surprising, and I don't think this will be lost on the jury.

As much as I've hated watching ALV's testimony, she has served a very important function in the delivery of justice: her staunch defense of Arias contributed to an overall strong case for which few arguments can be made for appeal. No one can argue that the DT failed to provide a rigorous defense; JA got her day(s) (and days and days) in court, and there will be few grounds for appeal, which will likely be denied. She got top-notch legal representation. And ALV was part of that, as difficult as she has been to watch.

That ALV is easily impeachable is a gift, as well. That the DT is unable to find experts to support the only theory with which they could hope to attain a lesser conviction simply speaks to the heinous nature of the crime.

It's just plain indefensible.

And yet, they have done a stellar job of working with what they have. I suspect they will continue to do so during the penalty phase, perhaps using a different approach. (I expect they will instruct the jury to forget what went on in the courtroom prior, and focus on the abuse Arias experienced as a child, and how that contributed to the formation of personality disorder. However, I suspect that will not spare her life.)

I hate watching them--really, I do. I hate seeing them defend this monstrous woman. I hate the pain his family is enduring as the DT attempts to besmirch their brother's good name. It's agonizingly heart-breaking to observe. But I'm glad they are. It means that Jodi Arias will never walk among us again.

The family of Travis Alexander, his friends, and all of us will see justice. I just know it.
 
JM could not ask to preclude her testimony based on lack of credibility or false testimony. What you do if you have lack of credibility or false testimony is impeach the witness--i.e., cross-examine her. He seems to have done a pretty good job of that already.

I also don't think there is any possibility that JM is asking the judge to reconsider some objection he had to her qualifications. She didn't say anything new about her qualifications during her testimony that JM didn't already know before she got on the stand. And the things she exaggerated on the stand (which JM already knew were exaggerations) were insufficient to make any difference on whether or not she was qualified as an expert.

And why in the world would he ever WANT to have her disqualified now? Why would he WANT the jury to be told to disregard her testimony? I have seen no signs that he's an idiot, and this was IMO one of his best witnesses.

ETA--LinTX--sorry if I sound like I'm yelling. :) Sometimes I get frustrated by all the legal nonsense out there on the Interwebs and then I get like Juan...

Hearing you say you can get like Juan made me smile, made me happy
inside :) our legal system needs more lawyers like Juan, regardless of which side they're on.
 
BBM

I suspect, since the jury seems to be remembering details well, that they remembered JA on the stand (I was reminded when HLN did the "best of JA's testimony") that a few days after she met Travis, when they all met up at Skye and Chris Hughes house, that she had "just got her Brazilian on", and was embarassed about it when Travis wanted to perform oral sex on her.

So they hadn't even been dating yet, but she was already getting Brazilians. Doesn't sound like Travis was the inspiration for those!

Also, doesn't the fact she arrived all shaved and ready to go that day go to premeditation? She's probably always waxed but that is the connection.

Also, I'm sure the men, and just men in general, are sick and tired of hearing that if they prefer their women bare they must be pedophiles. That is just such backwards thinking. We women shave everything. For men. I mean, that is such an unfair thing to put on them.
 
First thank you so much and everyone else too. I'm still in bed wondering where my butler is with my breakfast in bed or at least coffee. ;)

I think the the Sam approach thing was addressed already unless JM madd some kind of formal complaint. I am getting calls by the media this morning though about it...interesting huh? I'm sure they are just speculating like everyone else.


I noticed how when ALV was trying to elaborate on it being against the law to interview the family, there was an objection then JW asked a new question. I do not think its illegal for her to interview a victim with their consent. It is my personal belief they wouldn't have refused talking to her. I do think though, given the option, the family would have refused an ambush of any kind in the courtroom right in the middle of her trashing testimony of Travis. But she didn't give them that "right of refusal". She just walked up to he with her head down and blasted in to her personal space instead of using to the bathroom as she requested. Blah

KCL:

During your sister's murder trial, were you ever called into the judge's chambers WITH the murderers?

Do you have any idea what is going on when Samantha is called into chambers with the DT & JA?

I'm just trying to figure out why when they all come out, JA is invariably smirking and the family is crying. Is it just being in close proximity to a monster?
 
I just posted the following in the weekend thread, but I thought I'd post it here, too, because I'm wondering if any of our court watchers saw this or if they know who should be contacted about it. I suspect the camera person may have contacted someone, since the camera stayed on JA for this part, but you never know. Whatever she did, she wasn't supposed to be doing it:

Around 32:45 into part 3 of the JA trial day 46 put on youtube croakerqueen123's channel today, JA is CLEARLY up to something clandestine having to do with JW's chair. No. Question. About. It. Here is a slo-mo, then normal speed video of it.

Jodi Diddles JW's Chair

  • First she kicks JW's chair away/into position.

  • Then she twirls the seat of JW's chair into a different position.

  • Then she slowly pulls JW's chair alongside her own, using her foot.

  • She waits a little bit, looks covertly out the side of her eyes to see if anyone is glancing at her.

  • She picks up a notebook and grasps it near the middle with her left hand, then slides the thumb across the bottom of the page.

  • She puts her hand down on the arm of her own chair and makes a couple of picking motions.

  • She quickly moves her hand to JW's chair at the back of the armrest.

  • She works the end of the armrest along the back and bottom of it. It looks like she's screwing or unscrewing something and/or picking/poking at something.

  • She jerks her head up and looks at the bench conference, pretending to be interested in what they are doing, but continues to diddle the back and bottom of the armrest on JW's chair.

  • She quickly pulls her hand back to in front of her, picks up a stubby pencil and starts to write or pretend to write as the conference breaks up and the lawyers head back toward their respective tables.

I never actually saw anything IN her hands other than the notebook and the pencil, but she did something she shouldn't have been doing (I think she hides something). Does D have access to those chairs after the court clears out or before court convenes?

wow, she is super extra creepy in slo mo! I think she is just bored and fidgety, being her usual weirdo self.
 
Also, doesn't the fact she arrived all shaved and ready to go that day go to premeditation? She's probably always waxed but that is the connection.

Also, I'm sure the men, and just men in general, are sick and tired of hearing that if they prefer their women bare they must be pedophiles. That is just such backwards thinking. We women shave everything. For men. I mean, that is such an unfair thing to put on them.

It's absurd! When JW asked those questions of ALV regarding Jodi being completely waxed/shaved, I couldn't help but wonder if JW herself sports something similar (TMI)

I thought most men liked it that way--I've never dated a man who wanted the opposite situation...It doesn't mean it makes a grown woman look like a per-pubescent girl.

Pedophiles are attracted to CHILDREN, not waxed female adults.
 
I just posted the following in the weekend thread, but I thought I'd post it here, too, because I'm wondering if any of our court watchers saw this or if they know who should be contacted about it. I suspect the camera person may have contacted someone, since the camera stayed on JA for this part, but you never know. Whatever she did, she wasn't supposed to be doing it:

Around 32:45 into part 3 of the JA trial day 46 put on youtube croakerqueen123's channel today, JA is CLEARLY up to something clandestine having to do with JW's chair. No. Question. About. It. Here is a slo-mo, then normal speed video of it.

Jodi Diddles JW's Chair

  • First she kicks JW's chair away/into position.

  • Then she twirls the seat of JW's chair into a different position.

  • Then she slowly pulls JW's chair alongside her own, using her foot.

  • She waits a little bit, looks covertly out the side of her eyes to see if anyone is glancing at her.

  • She picks up a notebook and grasps it near the middle with her left hand, then slides the thumb across the bottom of the page.

  • She puts her hand down on the arm of her own chair and makes a couple of picking motions.

  • She quickly moves her hand to JW's chair at the back of the armrest.

  • She works the end of the armrest along the back and bottom of it. It looks like she's screwing or unscrewing something and/or picking/poking at something.

  • She jerks her head up and looks at the bench conference, pretending to be interested in what they are doing, but continues to diddle the back and bottom of the armrest on JW's chair.

  • She quickly pulls her hand back to in front of her, picks up a stubby pencil and starts to write or pretend to write as the conference breaks up and the lawyers head back toward their respective tables.

I never actually saw anything IN her hands other than the notebook and the pencil, but she did something she shouldn't have been doing (I think she hides something). Does D have access to those chairs after the court clears out or before court convenes?

She's putting something into the empty carafe!!

She puts Kleenex into the pitcher and then shakes out the water and tissues into her cup. She then takes more Kleenex to dry it. I think she's leaving a note or something in the now empty, dry carafe.
 
I'm not sure I agree with her being smart. If she were smart she wouldn't have shown her narcissism while on the stand.
Respectfully snipped...

The thing is, a narcissist (and really, I think that narcissism is a feature of a different, more malignant personality disorder in Arias's case) can't be anything other than narcissistic. It's what she is. This is especially true under certain circumstances, such as duress (under which JA certainly is) and when in the spotlight (which, again, applies). A narcissist will not miss any opportunity to demonstrate his/her superiority. There is simply NO way JA could refrain from sparring with JM; just as it's in a spider's nature to capture prey in its web, it's in JA's nature to attempt to capture JM in hers.

You can't make a spider stop spinning a web. And you can't make Jodi Arias be a normal, non-disordered human being.
 
I don't think anyone should be too concerned about whether the jury is thinking in lock step right now. There are clearly many who get it and when the time comes for deliberation, those who do will have the opportunity to convince those who have concerns or doubts. Right now, this jury is under an obligation not to discuss the case or the evidence with each other - but that time is coming. I'm keeping the faith. :)

It's very rare that the jury is in 100% agreement, even in the most obvious of cases, when they first start deliberating. I've done it twice now. But... the conversations (and arguments) that you have in that room help immensely. The last trial I sat on was for attempted murder and we were 7 to 5 in favor of guilt. It tooks three full days, but we all agreed in the end and I can honestly say nobody was swayed. We all felt solid with our final decision. The defendant was found guilty of premeditated attempted murder.
 
Fact: Einstein never took an IQ test

Does Jodi think that his IQ was around 100? (That's what I guess her IQ is.)

Sorry, Jodi. You're average. You have no writing talent, and your pathetic mispronunciations of vocabulary words you memorize is even more pathetic. You are pathetically mediocre.
 
KCL:

During your sister's murder trial, were you ever called into the judge's chambers WITH the murderers?

Do you have any idea what is going on when Samantha is called into chambers with the DT & JA?

I'm just trying to figure out why when they all come out, JA is invariably smirking and the family is crying. Is it just being in close proximity to a monster?

I was never called back in chambers at all that I recall. I was never in close proximity to the murderers once they were arrested (thank God). I can only imagine how that impacts this family.

If I had any idea about what's going on back there I wouldn't share it. I protect the family's privacy 100%.

But last week I did note that JA and team came out looking somber and SAm and Hillary smiling. So...that's good.
 
If this has to do with ALV's stress, why would she seem to be dragging her heels about appearing next week? The judge had to admonish her about her personal issues when it came to deciding which day. This whole thing is so intriguing... we're all going to be speculating until Monday :seeya:

when i heard that she said she couldn't come on Monday, i thought that whatever reason she has to attend means she wants to avoid it and started making excuses, the 'ole "oh, i cant make it, i'm busy that day" is the quickest sidestep method she automatically went for. Judge Stephens is giving her an opportunity to reconsider this when she told ALY Monday or Tuesday,whichever let me know--ALV wants to distance herself from whatever is going to happen and she will not be able to get out of it! i LOL'd when she started with her i have tests to mark or whatever excuse, and JJS said this is a priority
 
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