Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[FrostedGlass]

Seems clear to me it is facing away from the trails, which would be logical unless you're there to look at hikers rather than nature. Was that a point of contention somehow?

View attachment 492769

It's not a point of contention for me.

He said he walked to the bridge, out to the platform and then sat on the bench; he said he didn't see anyone except the 3 girls at the beginning.

If he was sitting on a bench facing the creek, it's possible that he really didn't see anyone because they were behind him.

 

[Megnut]

We often ask where BG was when the girls approached the bridge. Hiding behind a tree?

He didn't need to hide.

They didn't know their fate was in his sick hands.

I suspect they passed by him. And he was creepy. Said something or said nothing but was creepy. Then when he was coming toward them on the bridge, Libby decided to video him. She didn't know, couldn't have known she was going to die, but she maybe did want to video him to show others later, who is this guy? Creepy.

As he got closer, how the fear must have mounted.

So frightening.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Ok then I did understand it. I believe the things I mentioned, together, are the proof. As far as do I think LE has expert digital audio or video proof that we will look at and say, there you go that's RA's face, that's RA's voice?...I don't know exactly what they have yet. I can make a guess there's more video and audio. I believe a frame or two showing Abby slightly were removed from the video. I also think there's more audio and what was released was also edited to not hear the girls.

MOO There probably is no more audio or video, MOO it ended with "gun" as LG hid the phone and the recording stopped.

 

[Boxer]

That’s your opinion. Not mine. I don’t know that he lied based on the evidence available.

Still, his path crossed theirs according to his own statement.

 

[Megnut]

I don't have the AW in front of me but am I remembering this right?:

According to the Defense's presentation of events, Abby was dressed in Libby's clothes. Correct?

And Libby's phone was found? Under one of the girls? Was it under Abby or Libby?

If it was under Abby, I would speculate that it was in Libby's pocket and went with her jeans undetected, falling out when Abby was moved/repositioned.

If it was under Libby, I have no explanation unless she was able to keep it beneath herself all the while that dreadful day unfolded.

Where would this case be without that?

Extraordinary piece of pivotal evidence.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I also believe, as I mentioned, that it is BG's voice.

Wether it's RA, that's a different story. If they don't have better video or audio than the released samples, I think there's no way to prove identity based on the phone material.

BG is wearing the exact clothes in the video that RA said he was wearing and that BG is also on a structure a witness saw him on right as the girl's were approaching it to walk across and then Libby videoed him on it. Having an up close ID on that video mostly likely doesn't exist (unless BG has a mole or scar somewhere, caught on video, that was subsequently matched to RA) or we'd have seen it and RA would have been arrested long ago.

 

[layer]

Where would this case be without that?

Extraordinary piece of pivotal evidence.

JMO

See, I respectfully disagree. My impression is that the phone has been more of a curse than a bonanza to the investigators. All that fixation on the video and the audio and sketches and the press conferences... all they needed to do was investigate the people known to be near the scene that afternoon. Murder Investigation 101.

<modsnip>JMHO

 

[Oculus]

BG is wearing the exact clothes in the video that RA said he was wearing and that BG is also on a structure a witness saw him on right as the girl's were approaching it to walk across and then Libby videoed him on it. Having an up close ID on that video mostly likely doesn't exist (unless BG has a mole or scar somewhere, caught on video, that was subsequently matched to RA) or we'd have seen it and RA would have been arrested long ago.

I don't believe that there's any clearer video either.

 

[Oculus]

See, I respectfully disagree. My impression is that the phone has been more of a curse than a bonanza to the investigators. All that fixation on the video and the audio and sketches and the press conferences... all they needed to do was investigate the people known to be near the scene that afternoon. Murder Investigation 101.

<modsnip>JMHO

I agree. They started from the wrong end of the thread.

 

[susiQ]

Still, his path crossed theirs according to his own statement.

He said he saw three girls, not two. You’re assuming their paths crossed. JMO

 

[Megnut]

See, I respectfully disagree. My impression is that the phone has been more of a curse than a bonanza to the investigators. All that fixation on the video and the audio and sketches and the press conferences... all they needed to do was investigate the people known to be near the scene that afternoon. Murder Investigation 101.

<modsnip>JMHO

Hopefully it was never the only evidence they had.

IMO it will serve as part of a dramatic closing argument.

When coupled with material and digital evidence, it will drive home what happened that day.

JMO

 

[twall]

03/25/2024	Memorandum/Brief Filed POST HEARING MEMORANDUM Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 03/25/2024
03/25/2024	Document Filed Richard Allen Appendix Attachment to Post Hearing Memorandum Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 03/25/2024

 

[sunshineray]

I don't have the AW in front of me but am I remembering this right?:

According to the Defense's presentation of events, Abby was dressed in Libby's clothes. Correct?

And Libby's phone was found? Under one of the girls? Was it under Abby or Libby?

If it was under Abby, I would speculate that it was in Libby's pocket and went with her jeans undetected, falling out when Abby was moved/repositioned.

If it was under Libby, I have no explanation unless she was able to keep it beneath herself all the while that dreadful day unfolded.

Where would this case be without that?

Extraordinary piece of pivotal evidence.

JMO

It was under Libby according to a prosecution filing. I cannot remember which filing but I believe it was talked about and linked in the last thread. IIRC

 

[Megnut]

He said he saw three girls, not two. You’re assuming their paths crossed. JMO

He saw a group of girls and based on timing, that matches up with the four juveniles on the path. Based on corroborating details, he would have been on track to pass the two girls as he left the bridge (to go sit on a bench) and they were on track to pass him as they approached the bridge while he moved away from the platform.

Both on course.

 We weren't there and Abby and Libby can't tell us so we don't know who saw whom. He could have gone off path and hid until they passed. They could have gone off path and didn't see him then but it remains the case that they were on track. Train A and Train B were on track to collide.

With deadly results.

JMO

 

[Vern]

Wow! They knew three years prior that their recording system was “bad” and they didn’t take any action to replace it?? I’d call that negligence. JMHO

The negigence would be upon those who failed to fund the procurement of a replacement system.

Absolutely zero of which is exonerating for RA. And actually goes to support that this was NOT done intentionally and with mailce in order to "maybe lose evidence that maybe exonerated RA" (as the defence would so put it).

 

[Ravenmoon]

There are so many observant and intelligent people that post regularly here on WS.

I find the difference of opinions fascinating.

I can see why many feel that RA isn't the right fit as the killer when you have, what seems to be, unsavory characters that just more closely fit the bill. Some of the people that are part of the Asaturu group are....em, creepy. Having said that, creepy people are in every community.

Do we know how many people were questioned before RA was arrested? Dozens? Possibly hundreds? Did LE keep recordings of all of them? Are they required to once they ruled them out?

EF would have been such an easy suspect if LE was just wanting someone to frame . Why not just go that route? The guy has issues. He loves to spin tall tales. I assume that stems from him being overlooked by people throughout his life.

LE had so, so many options if they wanted to make an arrest to get the community out of their hair. Yet, they didn't.

RA would be so far off from the image that most of us see in our minds when we think about who would be capable of killing the girls.
But with the little bit of information that we have, I believe that they have the right guy.

GK, TK, DN ,PW, JM , CE, and so many others fit this situation. They really wanted to find the person responsible and clearly weren't looking for just anyone. There is no deep love between the FBI, ISP, Delphi and the Vinlanders. The FBI and the police would jump at the opportunity to put them away for good, not protecting them.

To be clear, I don't see anyone here ( posting on WS) as inferior or ill intended. I do wonder if some are uninformed or just new to the case and haven't been weighing the possibilities as long as many of us have.

I have learned something from each person here. I appreciate all of you. <modsnip - off topic>


JMO

 

[susiQ]

He saw a group of girls and based on timing, that matches up with the four juveniles on the path. Based on corroborating details, he would have been on track to pass the two girls as he left the bridge (to go sit on a bench) and they were on track to pass him as they approached the bridge while he moved away from the platform.

Both on course.

 We weren't there and Abby and Libby can't tell us so we don't know who saw whom. He could have gone off path and hid until they passed. They could have gone off path and didn't see him then but it remains the case that they were on track. Train A and Train B were on track to collide.

With deadly results.

JMO

With respect, I’m not convinced, although you are. That’s okay. As far as I’m concerned the timing of RA’s visit to the trails and bridge are not set in stone, at the moment. We don’t even know for a certainty if his phone was there or not. He says he was on his phone. I hope there is confirmation either way during the trial. JMO

 

[Salah11]

With respect, I’m not convinced, although you are. That’s okay. As far as I’m concerned the timing of RA’s visit to the trails and bridge are not set in stone, at the moment. We don’t even know for a certainty if his phone was there or not. He says he was on his phone. I hope there is confirmation either way during the trial. JMO

Witnesses and RA beg to differ with you there I’m afraid.

 

[Vern]

Yes, and I would like to know how they could establish that.

Surely his mouth cannot be seen moving in sync with the audio anywhere in the video... If that were the case, they would have a fairly clear visual of his face.

Nah; perhaps the phone was lowered down so that perp could not tell they were being recorded ... the legs of BG come into frame, the words, "DTH" are uttered and the click is heard.

That puts it BARD for this girl to the utterer being the bridge guy. Evene if no legs etc are seen as the phone is by then in her pockt, the girls didn't record any other guy in the area - especially one in such close proximity to them, who was self-admittedly in the immediate are dressed in similar clothing at the same time. Neither have any other witness' attested to any other males being in the area during the timeframe in question.

BARD = BARD.

 

[layer]

The negigence would be upon those who failed to fund the procurement of a replacement system.

I have to keep reminding myself how small Delphi is. Moscow ID has a population of roughly 26,000, which would make it nearly ten times bigger than Delphi. In that case the coroner called out for the quadruple homicide was also a registered nurse at Gritman Medical Center. And a defense attorney. Gotta love small towns.