Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[sunshineray]

Agree, it looks catty-cornered to me. And I wish there was a view closer to the bench, it almost looks like there may be a trail going off past the bench as well (to the creek?). I guess I need to dig out an old trail map.

I think IIRC Gray Hughes showed the trails and mentioned that bench. It may be where that trail that Libby's Dad took when he was looking for her that goes down to the creek?

 

[FromGermany1]

I don't have the AW in front of me but am I remembering this right?:

According to the Defense's presentation of events, Abby was dressed in Libby's clothes. Correct?

And Libby's phone was found? Under one of the girls? Was it under Abby or Libby?

If it was under Abby, I would speculate that it was in Libby's pocket and went with her jeans undetected, falling out when Abby was moved/repositioned.

If it was under Libby, I have no explanation unless she was able to keep it beneath herself all the while that dreadful day unfolded.

Where would this case be without that?

Extraordinary piece of pivotal evidence.

JMO

If he didn't take Libby's phone with him, because he wanted to prevent tracking/pinging, then he DIDN'T have his own phone with him at the crime scene. Otherwise it would be quite illogical.
That he overlooked the phone, I can't imagine at all. Everybody knows, that teens always have one or even two cellphones; he could see them on the bridge, when they took pics and a video; finally the phone was deposited under his undressed victim. How could he have been so blind? I think, he knew of this phone and left it at the crime scene (what I don't understand because of the video with his own person to be seen in it). IMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

If he didn't take Libby's phone with him, because he wanted to prevent tracking/pinging, then he DIDN'T have his own phone with him at the crime scene. Otherwise it would be quite illogical.
That he overlooked the phone, I can't imagine at all. Everybody knows, that teens always have one or even two cellphones; he could see them on the bridge, when they took pics and a video; finally the phone was deposited under his undressed victim. How could he have been so blind? I think, he knew of this phone and left it at the crime scene (what I don't understand because of the video with his own person to be seen in it). IMO

It's possible that he did something that damaged the phone. That may have encouraged him to believe that evidence would not be found on it .

Please remember that in the earlier days of the investigation, it was said that experts were brought in to help retrieve data.

Can someone recall if they said that the data actually came from a cloud?

 

[Megnut]

If he didn't take Libby's phone with him, because he wanted to prevent tracking/pinging, then he DIDN'T have his own phone with him at the crime scene. Otherwise it would be quite illogical.
That he overlooked the phone, I can't imagine at all. Everybody knows, that teens always have one or even two cellphones; he could see them on the bridge, when they took pics and a video; finally the phone was deposited under his undressed victim. How could he have been so blind? I think, he knew of this phone and left it at the crime scene (what I don't understand because of the video with his own person to be seen in it). IMO

I don't think he knew he'd been recorded.

I think he was aware there was nothing on her phone to incriminate him, perhaps aware of the factory reset.

Therefore no reason to take her phone. I remain of the belief that a phone was used to track the girls. Without their knowledge. If there was a second phone for that, it was removed from the scene.

Plus I think RA was using a phone as well. Just not his phone.

 

[Salah11]

We don’t know that he saw Libby take the video because if Abby was closer to him and also being on the bridge and walking was no easy feat for a man in the his mid 40’s. There is no indication from the recording he knew she had filmed him IMO.

 

[lightofmine99]

MOO: if BG knew he was being filmed, he would've tried to destroy the phone(s) or tried to hide them somewhere in the wilderness. There's also the obvious option of throwing the phone(s) into the creek.

 

[Megnut]

It's possible that he did something that damaged the phone. That may have encouraged him to believe that evidence would not be found on it .

Please remember that in the earlier days of the investigation, it was said that experts were brought in to help retrieve data.

Can someone recall if they said that the data actually came from a cloud?

I don't recall that but her phone could well have been compromised by water if it got wet crossing the creek. Though it's possible they weren't dressed instead forced to undress and carry their clothes across. And an ugly control tactic, holding onto their clothing for dear life in the hopes of being able to dress back into them. The fear of the unknown, just unimaginable.

 

[justtrish]

I don't think he knew he'd been recorded.

I think he was aware there was nothing on her phone to incriminate him, perhaps aware of the factory reset.

Therefore no reason to take her phone. I remain of the belief that a phone was used to track the girls. Without their knowledge. If there was a second phone for that, it was removed from the scene.

Plus I think RA was using a phone as well. Just not his phone.

I don't think he was aware she recorded him either. If he was aware, he never would have told LE he was wearing the exact outfit he was wearing when they filmed him on the bridge! I think he met with the conservation officer and told him about his clothing and where he was BEFORE the still photo was released. I don't think he cared that her phone was tracked because he didn't think it would incriminate him. Taking it 100% would have lead LE to him or at least to his car or a dump location for the phone at some point. He had a better chance of being caught if he took it and tried to dispose of it.

 

[justtrish]

I don't recall that but her phone could well have been compromised by water if it got wet crossing the creek. Though it's possible they weren't dressed instead forced to undress and carry their clothes across. And an ugly control tactic, holding onto their clothing for dear life in the hopes of being able to dress back into them. The fear of the unknown, just unimaginable.

Oh the water is a good thought. I wonder how long it would take to get from the bridge to the water? Maybe the recording was only as long as it took to go from A to B and then when it got wet it quit recording?

I really believe RA with a gun pointed at either of the girls would have caused them both to comply because they wouldn't want to be the reason their friend was shot. These were young girls who maybe believed if they just did what he said, they would be okay. They went along because he had a gun and I think even as a 40 something year old I'd be likely to comply and I KNOW the stats about going to a second location. Fear is a very real thing and a gun has to be up there with one of the most scary things a child can see when being threatened.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I have a lot of things saved about this case.

I just came across this from August 2017:

"State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them."

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

They noticed him. He was likely stalking them.

 

[TheVisual]

Do you mean the position of A&L or BG?


I think this composite by Gray Hughes creates a fairly good estimate. Based on the background in the BG clip.

The trees, bridge and perspective lines up pretty good:

View attachment 492771


I believe the platform to the right of BG would be the last one on the northern side, seen on the left here in a video by youtuber Delphi After Dark. (note the "larger" tree on the right hand side, compared to the one in the BG composite, on the left side for reference.):

View attachment 492772

NOTE: Smartphone cameras generally have a pretty wide focal length, seen here both in the upper and lower image. This makes distances harder to determine, and objects generally tend to look further away than in real life.

It appears that the forked tree behind BG is quite a ways behind him, not like the closeup we have been given.How far between the platforms?

 

[sunshineray]

Defense's Post-Hearing Memorandum for Contempt Hearing, Hennessy
and
Appendix

Memorandum:
Post Hearing Memo defense.pdf

Appendix:
Appendix post hearing brief.pdf.pdf

And it has just reached a level even I, who's so jaded about this defense, could never have imagined. It's despicable. AJMO

 

[TheVisual]

16,000 tips and not one of RA? Wow! I mean, it's so obvious he's BG! JMO

It went up to at least 50,000 tips!

 

[vinayd]

And it has just reached a level even I, who's so jaded about this defense, could never have imagined. It's despicable. AJMO

I’m only at the line about the “wounded sensibilities of a judge”… geesh

 

[sunshineray]

I’m only at the line about the “wounded sensibilities of a judge”… geesh

Hold on tight for the Appendix

 

[Ravenmoon]

"Police said a camera captured the photos of a man near Deer Creek between 1 and 3:30 Monday afternoon, about a quarter of a mile from the spot where the girls were found. ……....


"Sgt. Riley would not say where the picture came from or if a security camera took the photo. "



This comes from an article dated February 16th 2017.

I am under the impression that RA spoke with DD on the 15th before the information about the photo was released. He knew that the 3 girls had seen him, but didn't know that there was a photo that showed him on the bridge.





Police question multiple people in Delphi girls' murders

 

[Salah11]

I have a lot of things saved about this case.

I just came across this from August 2017:

"State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them."

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

They noticed him. He was likely stalking them.

Yep they passed him and likely didn’t give him a thought and then they start to cross and he follows them across and they are trapped all alone at the end of the bridge with no way to go. He then pulls a gun and marches them to their death.

IMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

So, why wasn't he investigated? Also, didn't he report to DD outside of a grocery store?

He was investigated. Arrested. Scheduled for trial.

The grocery store part has bothered me. I have wondered if he knew DD and played him. Nice guy, good citizen RA reports in that he was on the bridge that day, as was asked of the public by LE.

 

[sunshineray]

"Police said a camera captured the photos of a man near Deer Creek between 1 and 3:30 Monday afternoon, about a quarter of a mile from the spot where the girls were found. ……....


"Sgt. Riley would not say where the picture came from or if a security camera took the photo. "



This comes from an article dated February 16th 2017.

I am under the impression that RA spoke with DD on the 15th before the information about the photo was released. He knew that the 3 girls had seen him, but didn't know that there was a photo that showed him on the bridge.





Police question multiple people in Delphi girls' murders

I think this might be Libby's phone camera. LE only released the photo first. JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I think this might be Libby's phone camera. LE only released the photo first. JMO

Oh, it was!
I was pointing out that RA went to DD prior to the photo being released!