Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[Boxer]

He said that he assumed because the old farm bureau building was nowhere near the trail or bridge.

In addition a car that looks like RA'S was spotted at the old CPS building at the time that RA himself said he was arriving.

JMO

RA said he parked there (old building) and walked to the FB then in to the trail.

 

[DeDee]

I'm wondering why Detective Liggett was limited to believing RA was referring to the old CPS building... couldn't he have simply pointed at a map and asked RA where he was parked?
That seems... off

To further complicate matters...

APR 22, 2019
During Monday's press conference, ISP also requested the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked nearby <>.

Carter says a vehicle was parked at the old CPS/DCS Welfare building in Delphi on the east side of County Road 300 North, next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway between noon and 5 p.m. February 14, 2017. No details about that vehicle were released, including make and model, color or license plate number.
Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer

That's what Carter said about the date so that's what all the MSM wrote.

 

[layer]

RA said he parked there (old building) and walked to the FB then in to the trail.

Seriously, you're comfortable with this? The biggest double homicide in the history of that county and... it's just easier to assume what RA meant than take 10 seconds to get him on record with a specific location?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I responded to this with some location info.

I wanted to ask ... has no one here ever asked why LE just assumed he meant the CPS building?
Especially when no RA car was seen at the CPS building? Surely LE had a reason?

It's good that you bring this up.
It really didn't make much sense but then there were the witnesses who saw the man, saw the cars parked at the CPS building, etc and then it just became easy to believe the PCA.

It wasn't until the D shed some light on things that brings us where we are now.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Seriously, you're comfortable with this? The biggest double homicide in the history of that county and... it's just easier to assume what RA meant than take 10 seconds to get him on record with a specific location?

They have the car on video.

They didn't need him to point to anything.



What we have is a summary of what RA told DD and what he told LE prior to his arrest.

 

[TL4S]

He said that he assumed this because the old farm bureau building was nowhere near the trail or bridge.

In addition a car that looks like RA'S was spotted at the old CPS building at the time that RA himself said he was arriving.

JMOView attachment 495356

This is where I have trouble giving benefit of doubt to RA. I don't know if it's right for TL to infer within a PCA that RA meant the CPS building, unless RA confirmed that, but it's a reasonable guess nonetheless, IMO. Why would RA park at the Farm Bureau lot to go to the trails? It doesn't make sense. It's not close to a trail that leads to Freedom Bridge. It appears to be just as close for him to walk from his house or CVS than the Farm Bureau building, and either way you're walking all through town.

Unless there is digital data to show RA whereabouts there, or cameras footage of his car parked there, or him walking downtown, it's hard for me to buy that scenario.

JMO. Again, this is why I'm on the damn fence.

 

[Emma Peel]

I’m really stuck on the information that says there is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene.

There are witnesses saying BG was muddy and bloody so how did the murder truly leave NO dna. Or is this not a confirmed fact?

The no DNA linking RA to crime scene is reported to be stated by LE in LE's depositions, per the Defense Franks Memo #1 & exhibits.

PCA states an eyewitness saw "muddy and bloody" man walking along a road whilst driving ... the "bloody" is challenged by the Defense; Defense contends that said witness said "muddy" only.

JMHO

today's Reply filing from the Defense:
Adobe Acrobat

 

[layer]

February 14

Like the killer returning to the scene of the crime?
Or the typical lack of attention to detail that has plagued this case?

 

[snooptroop88]

If the murders had happened inside a bedroom or a vehicle, I'd expect to find some DNA left behind. But with the crime scene being outside in a vast forest, I think it is harder to find forensics in the aftermath. JMO

Compared to an outdoor scene, evidence at an indoor scene is generally less susceptible to loss, contamination and deleterious change.
Destruction or deterioration of evidence due to environmental conditions such as heat, cold, rain, snow and wind are problems associated with outdoor scenes.

Archived | Crime Scene and DNA Basics for Forensic Analysts | Outdoor​

Yep, agreed, and thanks on this! I remember reading a long time back that outdoor CS scenarios are problematic for DNA. But for a lot of these "outdoor" CS situations, the discovery of CS isn't made for very long periods, sometimes years. Here in this case, the CS was discovered relatively quickly, and I know there was at least some rope left at the CS, and I'd wonder why no DNA. I'm thinking he must have worn gloves, and this would be supported by the many pairs of gloves they took from RA's home. But again, if this murderer was careful enough to wear gloves and avoid all DNA, he is either so sloppy or so--???-- that he leaves a phone? It's odd to me. Also, I've seen articles way back from like 2017 that there had been DNA. I don't know what to think on this.

 

[Emma Peel]

They have the car on video.

They didn't need him to point to anything.



What we have is a summary of what RA told DD and what he told LE prior to his arrest.

but ... the HHStore video ... isn't a match/lock for RA's vehicle. LE's description is "resembles" ... but we'll see that video at trial.

Today's filing suggests the D very recently got that HHS video to work on ... perhaps that's why the D felt able to assert what they did about RA not parking at the location LE assumes he parked at.

I'm just noodling here ... so don't mind me too much. JMHO and some noodle on the side.

 

[Emma Peel]

To further complicate matters...

APR 22, 2019
During Monday's press conference, ISP also requested the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked nearby <>.

Carter says a vehicle was parked at the old CPS/DCS Welfare building in Delphi on the east side of County Road 300 North, next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway between noon and 5 p.m. February 14, 2017. No details about that vehicle were released, including make and model, color or license plate number.
Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer

That's what Carter said about the date so that's what all the MSM wrote.

Wow.
Did no one ever ask Carter to clarify? Seems someone in MSM would have ... at some point. jmo

 

[Cyber sleuth]

The no DNA linking RA to crime scene is reported to be stated by LE in LE's depositions, per the Defense Franks Memo #1 & exhibits.

PCA states an eyewitness saw "muddy and bloody" man walking along a road whilst driving ... the "bloody" is challenged by the Defense; Defense contends that said witness said "muddy" only.

JMHO

today's Reply filing from the Defense:
Adobe Acrobat

She further stated, it appeared he had gotten into a fight.

Defense didn’t want to address this because it supports the idea that the person that she witnessed leaving the crime scene could have been disheveled, clothes torn, blood on his clothes, twigs and leaves on his clothing, perhaps scratches on his face and and hands as well.
Perhaps the word “bloody” was the adjective that collectively described the physical characteristics that she saw/described more succinctly. JMO
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[Boxer]

Of course

Seriously, you're comfortable with this? The biggest double homicide in the history of that county and... it's just easier to assume what RA meant than take 10 seconds to get him on record with a specific location?

1. The alternative is that he parked in downtown Delphi and walked to FB.
2. Allen's language is clear, he parked and walked to the trail.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Just my opinion:

I am looking forward to the trial.
It's obvious that LE made mistakes.
At the end of the day, they are human.
I have criticized the secrecy and still feel that some things ( in the early days) should have been released.
I think many would be more supportive of LE if they had been more open.
But, here we are just weeks away from the trial .
I believe that they have the right person in custody. Things line up and fit properly .
The Defense will have the opportunity to defend their client and poke holes in the States case.
It isn't so much being Pro State as it is Pro Abby and Libby.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Seriously, you're comfortable with this? The biggest double homicide in the history of that county and... it's just easier to assume what RA meant than take 10 seconds to get him on record with a specific location?

Do you think a person saying they parked and walked to a trail would mean in any context that they they parked miles away?

 

[FrostedGlass]

This is where I have trouble giving benefit of doubt to RA. I don't know if it's right for TL to infer within a PCA that RA meant the CPS building, unless RA confirmed that, but it's a reasonable guess nonetheless, IMO. Why would RA park at the Farm Bureau lot to go to the trails? It doesn't make sense. It's not close to a trail that leads to Freedom Bridge. It appears to be just as close for him to walk from his house or CVS than the Farm Bureau building, and either way you're walking all through town.

Unless there is digital data to show RA whereabouts there, or cameras footage of his car parked there, or him walking downtown, it's hard for me to buy that scenario.

JMO. Again, this is why I'm on the damn fence.

It's just really odd, isn't it? Like his vehicle coming from the east. We sure had a lot of speculation on that one.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Wow.
Did no one ever ask Carter to clarify? Seems someone in MSM would have ... at some point. jmo

It was walked back before the end of that day.
Carter got caught up in his emotions and misspoke.
It was clarified that he should have stated February 13th

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It's just really odd, isn't it? Like his vehicle coming from the east. We sure had a lot of speculation on that one.

IMO he wanted to see who was at the cemetery and he could get a glimpse of the trails and bridge on the way. Perhaps he even pulled in and dropped something off on the way. He knows the answer to this question. It wasn’t him leaving the trails at 130 as he later stated. Because he didn’t park east of the Hoosier hardware store.
JMO

 

[Boxer]

It was walked back before the end of that day.
Carter got caught up in his emotions and misspoke.
It was clarified that he should have stated February 13th

MOO by the 2019 PC I believe Carter knew there was a missing report from the CO with the details of name etc. lost. Thats why he said a big mistake was made but it wasnt intentional.

 

[Boxer]

IMO he wanted to see who was at the cemetery and he could get a glimpse of the trails and bridge on the way.
JMO

He used to live in Mexico In. east of Delphi so going to a pub or other thing there is likely too.