Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[zh0r4]

This is where I'm hoping the P unveils some very strong evidence at trial. The PCA makes a lot of assumptions. I'm not saying they aren't compelling, and it was enough for probable cause, but I would like to see more, personally. There are no witnesses to a black Ford Focus, that we are aware of. There is a purple PT cruiser, a smart car, and HH footage of a vehicle that is "consistent" with RA's car driving by. It's not stated if there is footage of it even parking. Not to mention what vehicles were around from noon to 1:30.

Where was the light colored '65 Comet? BB's description of BG is about as accurate to RA as the Comet is to his Focus. Why didn't the PCA provide a description of the car BB saw parked oddly in the CPS lot? Was the car she described the Comet, or a different car? Why was the Comet omitted from the PCA? BB's the only witness who puts BG on the bridge in the moments before the girls got there, so it's important. JMO.

RA has placed himself on the trails at two different times, but without us being able to see the context of how he was asked the question on time, I don't feel comfortable making assumptions about that, either. And he said he saw three girls, but there were four girls who saw the man dressed in all black and/or jeans and blue jacket. Was there a group of three girls near FB around noon? It's just a nagging question in my mind.

Yes, I know all about how notoriously unreliable witness statements are, but the assumptions the P makes in the PCA are only that, an assumption, just like their assumption that the old farm bureau building is the CPS lot. I'd prefer more, which I hope the P will offer at trial. Likely, they have saved the best for last. Maybe the bullet evidence will be stellar. Or the confessions damning. Maybe the similar description of the clothing to what RA said he was wearing will be convincing enough. Perhaps there's solid digital or DNA evidence that the D is lying about there not being any. I truly do hope that, because I want them to have the right guy. I just don't want there to be any doubt. I so hope this.

There is a video of RA’s second interview with a timestamp of when he says he arrived at noon and left at 1:30, cited in the Frank’s Memo on page 109. My concern is whether or not they have proof he said something different the first time, since again, they have lost so many important interviews, why would they have kept anything for that long if they received hundreds/thousands of tips, from someone they didn’t initially consider a suspect? If the tip was lost, when was it found? What does a juror need to feel confident beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant changed his story? Personally I would like a recorded, cited, timestamped interview-that would be extremely compelling to me. Seeing him lie/change his story would prove he did. JMO.


Citations for RA 2nd interview, p. 109

156 Find attached Richard Allen's October 13, 2022 (Exhibit 110), interview. Richard Allen does not realize that he is being interrogated as a suspect until much later in the interview.
157 Exhibit 110 Richard tells Liggett and prosecutor investigator Mullins from the prosecutor's office that he had arrived around noon at the 10:57:40 mark.
158 Exhibit 110 at the 11:53:43 mark.



EDIT: spelling

Source: page 109
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

 

[Boxer]

I know the Frank’s Memo mentioned parking at CPS on pages 105-115ish, but it was in the context “For LE’s timeline to work, RA would have had to be here at this time”/etc “but he wasn’t.” I don’t know if they were saying he had already left or wasn’t parked there? If anyone wants to go back and dig, I’ll link again below.

https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

His Ford Focus passed the Harvest store camera at 1:27.
RA stated he was on the trail 1:30-3:30

 

[Emma Peel]

ISP Carter said that date, February 14, at the press conference. MSM repeated his words.

The article I linked was:
Posted at 6:57 AM, Apr 22, 2019 and last updated 12:15 AM, Feb 11, 2022 (without corrections to the Feb. 14 date)

I understand. Thanks for linking the article - which provides context.

Looks to me like they carried this error through the entire article. The article uses the 14th throughout where it should be the 13th.

From the article you link / BBM on the feb 14 dates below:

Unknown Vehicle

During Monday's press conference, Indiana State Police also requested the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked nearby the day Libby and Abby went missing.

Carter says a vehicle was parked at the old CPS/DCS Welfare building in Delphi on the east side of County Road 300 North, next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway between noon and 5 p.m. February 14, 2017. No details about that vehicle were released, including make and model, color or license plate number.

“We believe you are hiding in plain sight,” Carter said. “For more than two years…. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know – that one day, you will.”

The Two Years Since Delphi Murders

Libby and Abby went missing on February 14, 2017, after being dropped off to go hiking near the Monon High Bridge. Their bodies were found on the back end of a nearby property the following morning.

The Two Years Since Delphi Murders

Libby and Abby went missing on February 14, 2017, after being dropped off to go hiking near the Monon High Bridge. Their bodies were found on the back end of a nearby property the following morning.

Sloppy sloppy sloppy.
Carter messed up (obviously) and the press did no background checking for dates. JMHO

 

[DeDee]

MOO I also think they held the PC as close to where the lost interview with RA was held - I think he met the CO at the Save A Lot which virtually next door to CVS and .4 of a mile from the 2019 PC venue.

My apologies but this case sometimes confuses me. Too many players. Too many POIs. Too many motions. Too much chaos.

The young BG sketch was released in 2019 presser. Are you saying that Carter knew about the Conservation Officer's report before the news conference releasing the young BG with puffy hair?

Never mind. In reading your words again, you're referring to a location of the PC.

I thought that RA called the CO because he personally knew him. I could be wrong though. If he did, there should be a phone record on RA's phone of this call to whomever he dialed to report his presence at the trails.

AMOO

 

[zh0r4]

When a RA ( presumably) is seen walking back to his car muddy and bloody is he heading to where he claims he parked it?

Sorry I have zero knowledge on Delphi locations and car parks and all that jazz.

According to the “muddy and bloody” witness’s own recorded testimony from June 2017, cited and timestamped in the FM p. 115-117, she never said what LE said she did. D has the interview, she never said muddy and bloody (only muddy) and said he was wearing a tan/light colored coat, not a blue coat. So I don’t know how to answer that. These pages do tell the location she witnessed the man “walking down 300 North”:




Source: p. 115-117 citations & timestamps at the bottom of page 116
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

 

[zh0r4]

To further complicate matters...

APR 22, 2019
During Monday's press conference, ISP also requested the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked nearby <>.

Carter says a vehicle was parked at the old CPS/DCS Welfare building in Delphi on the east side of County Road 300 North, next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway between noon and 5 p.m. February 14, 2017. No details about that vehicle were released, including make and model, color or license plate number.
Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer

That's what Carter said about the date so that's what all the MSM wrote.

Mfw ouch my brain. To contribute to the confusion, according to Liggett’s deposition on page 111:

Q: Is it your contention that Richard Alen's black Ford Focus was parked at the old CPS building at 4:00 pm on February 13?

A: Yes.

Q: Is it your contention that Richard Alen's black Ford Focus was parked at the old CPS building at 4:30 pm on February 13?

A: No.

Q: What time do you contend that Richard Allen's black Ford Focus was no longer parked at the old CPS building?

A: Around 4:00.

page 111

Source: page 111
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

 

[DeDee]

I understand. Thanks for linking the article - which provides context.

Looks to me like they carried this error through the entire article. The article uses the 14th throughout where it should be the 13th.

From the article you link / BBM on the feb 14 dates below:

Sloppy sloppy sloppy.
Carter messed up (obviously) and the press did no background checking for dates. JMHO

ISP Carter always spoke in riddles, imoo. In one presser, he speaks of the movie The Shack and the book The Shack then, later, he tells us that The Shack has nothing to do with the murders. Then, in the young BG presser, DC said: "To the Killer who may be in this room"

As sleuths, half of us went underground digging for footage of everyone who was present in the room! As sleuths, half of us went underground digging for nearby shacks, and located a couple, after that presser!

Here is another ex of how the wrong date carried forward:

Investigators also want the public's help in finding the driver of a vehicle left at what Carter calls the old DCS/CPS Welfare building in Delphi near the Hoosier Heartland Highway between noon and 5 p.m. on Feb. 14, 2017.
'We will not stop': ISP releases new suspect sketch, video in Delphi murder investigation

 

[zh0r4]

Also, I've seen articles way back from like 2017 that there had been DNA. I don't know what to think on this.

To add two & two, they have DNA, it isn't RA's.

My understanding is the blood used to paint the alleged fehu rune on the tree was Libby’s blood. Initially they didn’t know whose blood it was. IIRC there was also a DNA sample that couldn’t be processed.

 

[DeDee]

Just my opinion:

I am looking forward to the trial.
It's obvious that LE made mistakes.
At the end of the day, they are human.
I have criticized the secrecy and still feel that some things ( in the early days) should have been released.
I think many would be more supportive of LE if they had been more open.
But, here we are just weeks away from the trial .
I believe that they have the right person in custody. Things line up and fit properly .
The Defense will have the opportunity to defend their client and poke holes in the States case.
It isn't so much being Pro State as it is Pro Abby and Libby.

JMO

#ProAbbyAndLibby

My frustration stems from being a sort of perfectionist, or rather, I prefer things to be in order. If I want to do something, I'm going to do it to the best of my ability. It's natural to expect others should feel and act the same way. The numerous inconsistencies are troubling.

From the beginning, like when The Sheriff had to correct the ISP spokesman, on FEB 14, 2017, because he didn't say the name of the Creek correctly have been most troubling because they kept adding up over the years. I lost my wig in 2019 when they gave us the new young BG sketch. I can only imagine how the survivors in Delphi felt when seeing that happen.

I don't know who murdered these two lovely young girls who should be in college and backpacking this summer through EU. I've known many attorneys in my life who were keenly smart in the courtroom, natural legalese, and marvelously great people to be friends with. I don't know what attracts someone to become a D lawyer but if I ever need one, many here today, would likely know their name. They'd be keenly, wickedly smart in the courtroom.

MOO

 

[DeDee]

This is probably referencing " the comet?"

Ths older model vehicle was on the HWY parked about 150 yards from the old CPS building and is NOT the vehicle that was backed into the Old CPS building.

I could be wrong but I think we can see it parked in the helicopter video where the ISP had the road blocked at Hoosier Highway. I believe it to possibly be the PT Cruiser mentioned by an eye witness.

JMOO based on memory

 

[sunshineray]

ISP Carter said that date, February 14, at the press conference. MSM repeated his words.

The article I linked was:
Posted at 6:57 AM, Apr 22, 2019 and last updated 12:15 AM, Feb 11, 2022 (without corrections to the Feb. 14 date)

ISP Carter was not quoted in that article you linked.

Carter says a vehicle was parked at the old CPS/DCS Welfare building in Delphi on the east side of County Road 300 North, next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway between noon and 5 p.m. February 14, 2017. No details about that vehicle were released, including make and model, color or license plate number.


That was information that was later corrected, as of course it was the day Abby and Libby were abducted and murdered, Feburary 13th. I'm confused, why is this even an issue now?

 

[DeDee]

From upthread, Steeltown Girl:

UPDATE FROM INDIANA STATE POLICE ON APRIL 23, 2019:

Delphi, IN – The Multi-Agency Task Force is providing the below points of clarification after yesterday’s informational news conference.

• A car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5:00 p.m. on February 13,2017
  • We are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time
• The location of the abandoned CPS building was 6931 West 300 North, Delphi, N
• • The building has since been demolished and the lot is vacant
• The Multi-Agency Task Force is seeking tips and information about how the subject depicted in the sketch is linked to the Delphi area.
  • The Task Force is not asking for investigative suggestions
  • Tips on the suspect sketch are our main interestPost 787
• Indiana State Police release new sketch of Delphi murder suspect - Carroll County Calendar

Thanks, I saw the post already! Who receives the community news so they'd see the ISP report? IDK. One good thing is that it covers 5 counties.

 

[zh0r4]

ISP Carter was not quoted in that article you linked.

RSSM

I hadn’t seen this article so just read it. I believe it is important because having a solid, consistent timeline is important. JMO.

From article, where the MSM repeated what DC said at the press conference:

“The Two Years Since Delphi Murders

Libby and Abby went missing on February 14, 2017, after being dropped off to go hiking near the Monon High Bridge.”

Source:

Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer

Exactly what that information is, and how it is expected to help the investigation is unknown at this time, but Indiana State Police have described it as "significant."

www.wrtv.com

 

[sunshineray]

Anyone have any thoughts about the exam release in discovery by the defense?

"Neurophysiology is a branch of physiology and neuroscience that studies nervous system function rather than nervous system architecture."

The exam is dated as occurring very recently, so it can't possible have anything to do with RA's time at Westville and his multiple confessions, where he was supposedly out of his right mind from threats and abuses done by the Odinist guards.

So what happened so recently to cause RA to have problems with his nervous system's condition affecting his mental functions?

And how can a man suffering this physically caused mental disarmament possibly deal with the distribution of his crowdsourcing funds, as the law requires? Maybe he gave his POA to someone?
AJMO and speculation.

Neurophysiology - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[sunshineray]

RSSM

I hadn’t seen this article so just read it. I believe it is important because having a solid, consistent timeline is important. JMO.

From article, where the MSM repeated what DC said at the press conference:

“The Two Years Since Delphi Murders

Libby and Abby went missing on February 14, 2017, after being dropped off to go hiking near the Monon High Bridge.”

Source:

Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer

Exactly what that information is, and how it is expected to help the investigation is unknown at this time, but Indiana State Police have described it as "significant."

www.wrtv.com

It was corrected almost immediately to the 13th. Where's the issue with this now?

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

Ok, so a question: If there was no confession how sure would people be that the evidence we know about so far = RA guilty?

The confession was after the charges/arrest etc so presumably they have relied on other information/evidence to charge him.

Jurors find DNA evidence very convincing and as a lay person I’m finding it very hard to reconcile the released info of no DNA linking RA to the crime scene (despite it being discovered very soon after the murders and it being a very up close and personal murder).

I get that there will be evidence we don’t know about but for me that alone would cast considerable reasonable doubt (ESPECIALLY if there was DNA but it isn’t RA’s).

 

[Salah11]

According to the “muddy and bloody” witness’s own recorded testimony from June 2017, cited and timestamped in the FM p. 115-117, she never said what LE said she did. D has the interview, she never said muddy and bloody (only muddy) and said he was wearing a tan/light colored coat, not a blue coat. So I don’t know how to answer that. These pages do tell the location she witnessed the man “walking down 300 North”:
View attachment 495376

View attachment 495377
View attachment 495378
Source: p. 115-117 citations & timestamps at the bottom of page 116
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

Thanks I believe BG has a brown hoodie on under the jacket so all I can assume is due to the nature of the crime scene he ditched the coat and they saw his jumper.

 

[Salah11]

This has been posted on Kelsi German instagram and she co-signed this. It hits on what one poster said yesterday and it shows the lack of respect being given towards the victims families. The man accused of killing these precious girls and his team should not be using the tag and quite clearly the family don’t want them to either.

Kelsi is a fantastic advocate for the girls.

 

[sunshineray]

Ok, so a question: If there was no confession how sure would people be that the evidence we know about so far = RA guilty?

The confession was after the charges/arrest etc so presumably they have relied on other information/evidence to charge him.

Jurors find DNA evidence very convincing and as a lay person I’m finding it very hard to reconcile the released info of no DNA linking RA to the crime scene (despite it being discovered very soon after the murders and it being a very up close and personal murder).

I get that there will be evidence we don’t know about but for me that alone would cast considerable reasonable doubt (ESPECIALLY if there was DNA but it isn’t RA’s).

There's some possible reasons there's no RA DNA at the scene. Killer wore gloves, a hat as well as a possible pull up face covering. There was no sexual assault. The girls were made to undress and Abby to redress themselves with a gun pointed at them. Could be the reason why there was a cycled shell fallen between them, gun being chambered to intimidate then into the actions the killer wanted performed. I also think, as another poster mentioned earlier, that some kind of chemical agent was possibly used at the crime scene. The few items of clothing RA may have touched winding up in the creek...minus the missing sock.

 

[mrjitty]

This has been posted on Kelsi German instagram and she co-signed this. It hits on what one poster said yesterday and it shows the lack of respect being given towards the victims families. The man accused of killing these precious girls and his team should not be using the tag and quite clearly the family don’t want them to either.

Kelsi is a fantastic advocate for the girls.

View attachment 495405

there’s really no words