Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #180

[girlhasnoname]

I thought the same thing...it could. We've discussed before about how the Delphi murders can be the first such crimes for a man of his age, how unusual that would be, no priors. Maybe there were priors?

Perhaps not murder, but I wouldn't be surprised it there was some deviant behavior along the lines. I've said it often, RA is sly like a fox, he knows how to play to an audience. Just watch some of the FB videos out there of him back before his arrest. Happy, helpful, jolly little man hiding in plain sight.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

Disorganization. For a start, anyone who placed themselves at the scene of the crime and resembles a suspect that was captioned on camera by one of the victims should have been gone over with a fine tooth comb. It is common knowledge that suspects insert themselves into an investigation.
A investigation can be likened to putting a puzzle together. You have all the pieces, but where do you start? You look at the picture on the box; the crime. Your find the corner pieces; the evidence. Next you work your way down all the sides; witnesses, suspects, interviews and interrogation. Now you go to the meat of the puzzle, (although by now some of the pieces are already falling into place); the lab results, digital forensics, and tip follow up, the analysis of all these pieces.
Now you just have a few pieces that fit in the remaing spaces. You have your POI’s.
There is one final step that is very important. You need to secure your completed puzzle to its backing if you want it to remain intact; preservation of evidence and case files. You don’t want somebody walking by and tipping the whole thing over.

Awkward, yes. Reasonable, no.

They had Richard Allen served to them on a platter by …..Richard Allen. The lack of follow up, the lost interview tapes, witness recollection. Memories fade over time. They were too scattered, not focused, things fell through the cracks. Things got out of control leaving an opening for all kinds of smoke and mirrors theories.

Thanks so much! Again!

I'd like to sneak in one more question. (always.) (hee hee)

Do you feel strongly one way or the other ... as to the likelihood of accomplices, and those LE hints of more than one participant, more than one released sketch, etc. ?

 

[susiQ]

Food for thought. Perhaps an accomplice who is already now behind bars was the one who identified RA.

All the more reason to identify him. JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

From the 4/5/2023 Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping Order (hearing was in June, JG's denial was in July):

i. Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's copperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3rd, 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen;


12. To further complicate matters, Mr. Allen has suffered from depression dating back to his early years. Upon his incarceration, Mr. Allen was presumably evaluated and medicated by prison medical staff. Up until a visit with Mr. Allen on April 4, 2023, counsel for Mr. Allen found him to be polite, communicative with great eye contact, generally responsive to our questions and exhibiting a good sense of humor on occasion in spite of his false arrest and circumstances. However, Mr. Allen's deteriorating physical condition has been observed by Counsel dating back to the beginning of the new year. As recently as Friday, April 24th, 2023, Attorney Andrew Baldwin met with Mr. Allen with optimistic news about the direction of the case, and Mr. Allen was inquisitive about the information, was thankful about the information and optimistic about the information. Only ten days later (April 3, 2023), Attorneys for Mr. Allen observed a steep decline in Mr. Allen's demeanor, ability to communicate, ability to comprehend and ability to assist in his defense. Simply put, this version of Richard Allen was a very different version than counsel for Mr. Allen had interacted with over the past five months. Mr. Allen appeared to be suffering from various psychotic symptoms which counsel would describe as schizophrenic and delusional. Counsel further believes that in our April 4, 2023 interaction, Mr. Allen seems to be suffering from memory loss and is demonstrating an overall inability to communicate rationally with counsel and family members. Counsel experienced, these symptoms, firsthand, upon visiting Mr. Allen on Monday, April 4th, 2023;

How many times were we told they were keeping information close to the vest because of things that only the murder would know? So I've waited for something to come out in the confessions.

Then we learned that, for almost a week and a half, Westville had all this discovery:
i. Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's copperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3rd, 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen;

That gave me pause. I feared someone would read about the crime scene and feed RA those details. In spite of that, I still wanted to believe that no one would examine the contents of those reports.

Now we learn of the actions of the companions and the c/o interviews, my trust is just gone.

 

[photographer4]

2024 4/11 Allen Memorandum.pdf.pdf

drive.google.com

There were a few things that really stood out to me in this filing - probably been discussed already but I'm so far behind, I thought I'd just jump back in.

Specifically, the D has omitted the information about his "confessions" to his wife and mother. Why? The ones they DO mention only talk about things that are not thought to have happened to Libby & Abby in this case. But of concern is where they indicate that RA admitted to molesting other persons whom he apparently named. Have police spoken with those persons to verify RA's information? Are they likely to be called to testify as to their experiences with RA if those things did happen?

What about the other issues the D mentioned: eg: covering himself with his own feces and "many other socially unacceptable behaviors" - p.10. What the heck? And we're just going to chalk all this up to him having a clinical diagnosis of depression as an adult for which he took some medication, and social isolation in corrections facility?

I have been previously willing to consider that perhaps this wasn't the guy. I probably would have made a decent enough juror - but this is beyond concerning. I don't think I'd make a good juror anymore.

 

[Salah11]

Perhaps not murder, but I wouldn't be surprised it there was some deviant behavior along the lines. I've said it often, RA is sly like a fox, he knows how to play to an audience. Just watch some of the FB videos out there of him back before his arrest. Happy, helpful, jolly little man hiding in plain sight.

JMO

Yep definitely a wolf in sheep’s clothing. <modsnip: Opinion / direct accusation stated as fact>

Moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

The man was in a state of psychosis is the argument due to the conditions he was subjected to. I suspect they have expert testimony in that regard. Of course, there will be those that will believe ANY expert that provides ANY clinical explanation for RA’s “confessions” is a LIAR. JMO
ed:gr

I don't believe ANY expert supporting RA's ability to slip in/out of psychosis is a LIAR, but maybe just a very highly over paid expert witness.

moo

 

[WildHuncher]

Of course, NM failed to mention that RA got the COD incorrect and was likely in a psychotic state. The devil is indeed in the details .

Ah, but the incorrect COD is in confessions to “state actors.” These confessions have not to my knowledge been cited by LE. They aren’t in the PCA. They are “new news.” Why are THEY being suppressed by the D and not the recorded confessions to family?

The D’s motion to supppress is not really addressed to the court at all, but rather the jury pool.

 

[mrjitty]

well this is a hell of a mess. can’t say i’ve come across something like this in a big trial. normally it’s only some jail house snitch or incriminating messages. to tell ao many people he did it is wild.

one thing i will say. RAs lawyers would be a lot happier if he had not made all these confessions.

 

[kae27]

It's worrisome to me, as well. It is going to be interesting to see how the State responds here, because at this point, we still don't know anything about the phone "confessions" to RA's wife/mother. I'm honestly not ready to jump to the conclusion that the D omitted them because they are damning against their client, though. The "confessions" addressed in the memo are the ones that the D claims the State plans to use at trial. Could it be that the phone "confessions" are not of any value to the State? Could they really be incoherent mumbles like the D has described them to be in the past? Or are they the State's lynchpin? We simply don't know yet.

His admissions that he shot the girls in the back are troubling to me, too. If he's malingering and trying to misconstrue the facts, I think that speaks to the mindset of a person quite capable of murdering two girls by himself...and somebody I would have expected to have committed offenses prior to and after, although that's just my own speculation. But if he's innocent and was in a state of psychosis, then that statement could have come from the fact that he was arrested based on a PCA that includes bullet evidence, and he doesn't even know how the girls were actually killed. Or, if he's guilty, did he actually try to shoot them in the back at the CS? Is that how the unspent round got ejected? Did he not originally plan such an up close and personal method of murder and that's what got him to the point of leaving an odd CS and signatures? Again, too many unknowns for me, personally, to make any conclusions.

Of further concern to me is the fact that even if RA is guilty, convicted, and it is never overturned through appeals, I hope EVERYTHING is transparent in how RA ended up in a maximum security segregation unit, unable to meet privately with his attorneys, and otherwise handled like a convicted felon as a pre-trial detainee. I completely understand the need to keep him safe. I just don't want to see a situation where a new precedent is set, paving the way for this kind of handling of more and more pre-trial detainees, especially in regards to not being able to meet privately with their attorneys. To me, that's walking a dangerous line of violating defendants' rights and nobody should be okay with that, IMO.

Fantastic post, top to bottom.

 

[kae27]

RSABBM
With utmost respect, this is where I must disagree. If he was BG, would not all that he was subjected to since his arrest have broken him to the point of revealing who the accomplices were? I cannot take the leap and believe he was involved or that he was BG. He didn’t even know the COD. JMHO

You could absolutely be right. As I said, I'm undecided on all of it but lean this way based on information known right now, which is far from all of the facts that will be articulated at trial. Just hope we'll get there soon.

 

[Emma Peel]

well this is a hell of a mess. can’t say i’ve come across something like this in a big trial. normally it’s only some jail house snitch or incriminating messages. to tell ao many people he did it is wild.

one thing i will say. RAs lawyers would be a lot happier if he had not made all these confessions.

Or ... RA lawyers are happy with all these (different) confessions b/c it supports psychosis and coercion in a way a single confession might not.

Otherwise, we totally agree: hell of a wild mess.

 

[FromGermany1]

Specifically, the D has omitted the information about his "confessions" to his wife and mother. Why? The ones they DO mention only talk about things that are not thought to have happened to Libby & Abby in this case. But of concern is where they indicate that RA admitted to molesting other persons whom he apparently named. Have police spoken with those persons to verify RA's information? Are they likely to be called to testify as to their experiences with RA if those things did happen?

bbm
^^ This!

 

[justtrish]

So you're still on the fence
I think everyone has their own standards for when something clicks in their mind. For example, when I learned that Cristhian Rivera led LE to Mollie Tibbitts body, I was convinced. It clicked. This case hasn't clicked for me, more like grinding and screeching noises.

Well I am not on the fence , but if evidence at trial shows that he didn't do it, I'd be open to it. At this point, I just can't see that he was there, in the that clothing, parking where he said he did, seeing the people that also saw him, and then it was some other random person that nobody saw that was dressed like him.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

How many times were we told they were keeping information close to the vest because of things that only the murder would know? So I've waited for something to come out in the confessions.

Then we learned that, for almost a week and a half, Westville had all this discovery:
i. Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's copperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3rd, 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen;

That gave me pause. I feared someone would read about the crime scene and feed RA those details. In spite of that, I still wanted to believe that no one would examine the contents of those reports.

Now we learn of the actions of the companions and the c/o interviews, my trust is just gone.

Why would the defense ship 1,000 pages of discovery to RA for him to go through it alone, with no one there to advise him, or answer questions, or ask questions. Not even a law clerk. So what happens. RA starts eating it.

 

[TL4S]

I have a dumb question, but I'm legitimately curious. When a person is charged with a crime, do their lawyers share all the discovery with them? Like, for instance, would a murder suspect get to see or read the autopsy reports, crime scene photos, things like that?

 

[layer]

I just can't see that he was there, in the that clothing, parking where he said he did, seeing the people that also saw him, and then it was some other random person that nobody saw that was dressed like him.

I think even Abby was wearing blue jeans. And many people probably had jackets. Did he say he was wearing blue or black? Or was that one of the witnesses?
As for how he was dressed, this is something that has been bugging me. If I was to look at a still of BG for 5 seconds and asked to describe his clothing, I can't imagine that my description wouldn't include the fact that it looks like he was wearing every article of clothing he had in his closet.

 

[vinayd]

I have a dumb question, but I'm legitimately curious. When a person is charged with a crime, do their lawyers share all the discovery with them? Like, for instance, would a murder suspect get to see or read the autopsy reports, crime scene photos, things like that?

Yes they get a copy. We the family have a copy of discovery. Now my question has been does the state have things we haven’t seen?
We have autopsy report but no photos. Not that I’d want to see them. Interesting nonetheless.

 

[Jade]

Of course, NM failed to mention that RA got the COD incorrect and was likely in a psychotic state. The devil is indeed in the details .

No, he didn't.

NM's statement was about the confession to the wife not the newly released confessions.

Psychosis is a loss of reality why would we be surprised he doesn't know what's real and what's not IF in that state?

Psychosis refers to a collection of symptoms that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. During an episode of psychosis, a person’s thoughts and perceptions are disrupted and they may have difficulty recognizing what is real and what is not.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/understanding-psychosis#:~:text=Psychosis refers to a collection,real and what is not.


all imo

 

[kae27]

A staged confession with blatant misinformation is not going to be a problem here IMO.

A staged confession is a fascinating idea. I've been an attorney for 32 years, but don't work in criminal (other than some pro bono I've done), so maybe this happens. But on its face it seems unfathomable to me as a realistic strategy.