Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[sunshineray]

Just a reminder - the only interview we’re aware of IMO that RA “places himself on the bridge” is the same October’22 interview that he states he was on the trails from noon to 1:30, so he really doesn’t place himself on the bridge during the time of the crime. IF he had said what you’re saying then yes the case would be more solid.

Of course he could be lying or mis-remembering..

I bet with 30+ confessions, over provably a year or more, RA may have mentioned again being on the Monon High Bridge. We shall see at trial.

 

[Boxer]

I gave up working on the timeline because I can't make it work on either end of the trail.

The P used the KG departure time as also being the arrival time. If the girls did arrive earlier than that, the whole timeline on that end of the bridge does not work for me.

There's a questionable time gap, IMO, between the timings of the group of 4 and when BB sighted them on the bridge.

Witness saw RA on platform, turned walked back down trail passed A&L on their way to MHB.

 

[mrjitty]

The bottom line for me is that it was the defense's responsibility to inform the court of their needs. They said they did that in an Oct 2023 email. The court has now stated no such email was recieved by the court. The defense also have not mentioned needing 3 weeks in subsequent months, only just recently has it been brought to the attention of the court...after scheduling was done for pre-trial hearings and trial dates...not before, after. I think the question is not how the court communicates, it's the lack of communication from the defense TO the court. AJMO

From my perspective it's game time now.

Either they file to SCOIN to recuse the judge, or they get ready for trial.

I am happy with either outcome to put an end to this back and forth. Personally, even if Gull made an error as to whether she could change the trial date, i don't see how that is grounds to remove her. Maybe they think they can get over the top with the shopping list they allege.

I am not attached to whether the Judge stays or not. IMO the rules about confessions and third party involvement are the same, no matter who the judge is.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

The second the Defense was aware of trial dates was the right time to speak up. IMO they purposefully waited until the Court docket filled up to object. They didn't even come prepared to argue why they'd need the extra time (also purposeful because IMO they propose calling witnesses that won't pass muster and want to try their luck with a new judge).

FWIW if somehow a judge did not effectively manage the court clock and the Prosecution used up all the scheduled time, why would they do that? It would send the trial straight to dismissal, a dismissal of charges or a mistrial. The State would have to START OVER. But that's not what happens. The judge watches the clock. He/she'll hold the State to its proffer, providing the Defense the time it needs before both sides rest. Which is why both sides are sure to let the judge know who they anticipate calling and how long they estimate it taking, something that judges evaluate throughout every trial I've followed.

Defense Counsel is acting like they've never been to trial before.

JMO

To be fair, I think there are some administrative aspects that are odd IMO.

Like why is the state's motion in limine filed and scheduled so late on the 3rd party evidence, when that is the very thing likely to determine the length of trial, and indeed the defence's entire trial strategy? We've known since Franks that this is the defence case.

I have no idea whose fault that is, and perhaps a thread attorney can jump in here - but none of this is secret and I would have expected the parties to discuss whether the 3rd party evidence was coming in at trial and both sides would want that hearing sooner rather than later? In that context i see Gull's email as banging heads together - after all, it's not as if she can file the motions herself!

At the end of the day though, I think defence have made it clear that they'd rather spin the wheel on getting a new judge rather than let Gull rule on the admissions/3rd party stuff - which could cripple their case. So in my view, they weren't planning on going to trial here.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

BBM
I've been meaning to ask this--

Is the Rozzi & Baldwin"s FIRST murder trial ???

The way they are stumbling and bumbling through makes me think it could be their First Murder trial.

I also get the feeling they are waaaaay in over their heads. They haven't followed procedures for anything basically, which makes me think they don't know what the heck they're doing. This case is beyond their legal expertise, I'd love to know the majority of their casework.

They filed a Motion for Speedy Trial in March (7th I believe). Judge Gull by law had to schedule RA's trial within 70 days. So from March 7th until mid May, they didn't raise a red flag AT ALL. The jury here is also going to be sequestered so it is not the same start-end dates as a regular trial IMO.

It's merely another game played by the Defense to get more time because THEY WEREN'T READY. They filed the Motion for Speedy Trial (to save face IMO) without having expert witness testimony secured, all of the depositions taken, even going through all discovery etc. but instead of notifying the court ahead of time when they clearly knew, they waited until the last minute before the hearings, which they had been begging for, to act like it was the Judge and State's fault. Come on Rozzi and Baldwin, do YOUR job.

The Court is not responsible for managing their schedules. It's sadly become more than a circus, it's a miscarriage of Justice for Abby & Libby IMO.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It was known as a Hobson's choice.

I don't agree, Rozzi and Baldwin could have marched out there at 2 pm and presented a case on record. We know they knew this was the subject of the hearing as Hennessy had already prepared a Statement on behalf of Baldwin.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

My feeling is none of this matters now.

One Judge or other will preside over this case. These tactics end one way or the other. There is no reason to think the outcome of the trial will be changed by removing Judge Gull.

IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO
My point was they did tell the judge how many weeks they would need.
She may not have remembered but it's right there in the record.

They never should have so easily accepted the dates she set.

A whole ton of stuff happened between June 2023 and Jan 2024.
There was a lot of unexpected time lost for the D.
Probably a lot of surprises in the volumes of discovery.

It matters not an iota to me whether they were/are ready or not; the judge agreed to change the trial date.
I don't believe she would have done that unless she found the request legitimate.
The additional time also seems to have benefitted Nick.

The Judge set the May trial date because The Defense filed the Motion for Speedy Trial in March, how is Judge Gull to be blamed for that when she is bound by law to hold the trial within 70 days upon that request? It's not up to her to manage the Defense's case or time table. They filed the Motion and she was compelled to set the May trial date, she's not aware of the readiness, or not, of their case.

Rozzi and Baldwin knew of the whole ton of stuff that happened and unexpected time lost, so why file when they weren't ready? Even after they filed the Motion for Speedy Trial, when they saw there was no way they were going to be ready, why didn't they raise the flag before the trial was to begin? The juror questionnaires were already mailed.

This fiasco was just as intentional IMO as their Franks Memo.

JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

I thought the bridge spanning over the highway was called The Freedom Bridge? There's a bit of a parking area on the far side, you walk across over the highway to the trailhead?

Google Image Result for https://dlz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/City-of-Delphi-Freedom-Bridge-3.jpg

You are correct.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Just a reminder - the only interview we’re aware of IMO that RA “places himself on the bridge” is the same October’22 interview that he states he was on the trails from noon to 1:30, so he really doesn’t place himself on the bridge during the time of the crime. IF he had said what you’re saying then yes the case would be more solid.

Of course he could be lying or mis-remembering..

Per the PCA, in the 2017 DD interview he stated RA was on the trails 1330 - 1530.

In 2022 the time changed to 1200 - 1330.

If RA can prove that the latter is the correct timeframe, he should be good to go.

Has RA stated that he’s not BG?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Just a reminder - the only interview we’re aware of IMO that RA “places himself on the bridge” is the same October’22 interview that he states he was on the trails from noon to 1:30, so he really doesn’t place himself on the bridge during the time of the crime. IF he had said what you’re saying then yes the case would be more solid.

Of course he could be lying or mis-remembering..

CO Dan Dulin reported that on his first contact with RA in 2017 he said he was there between 13:30-15:30 per the PCA.

Mr Allen was on the trail between1330-1530. He parked at the old Farm Bureau building and walked to the Freedom Bridge. While at the Freedom Bridge he saw three females. He noted one was taller and had brown or black hair.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

 

[AugustWest]

I also get the feeling they are waaaaay in over their heads. They haven't followed procedures for anything basically, which makes me think they don't know what the heck they're doing. This case is beyond their legal expertise, I'd love to know the majority of their casework.

@girlhasnoname RSBM

You can search by attorney in Indiana records. Baldwin has represented literally over a thousand cases. Not in over his head; this isn't his first rodeo. These are only the ones that have been resolved, not pending.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Rozzi has plenty of experience also; again, literally thousands.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[FrostedGlass]

I don't agree, Rozzi and Baldwin could have marched out there at 2 pm and presented a case on record. We know they knew this was the subject of the hearing as Hennessy had already prepared a Statement on behalf of Baldwin.

MOO

The Indiana Supreme Court saw it differently and re-instated the attys.

 

[Sabex]

We can take this seriously because it IS serious! Why on earth would a Corrections Officer ever be allowed to wear a symbol / badge / affiliation / slogan / political statement etc (I’m not just talking about Odin stuff) to work?? How is that appropriate?? Would you allow a staffer to wear political badges or slogans? How about gang insignia (eg: bloods or crips)? Would you allow pro/anti abortion badges etc? Of course not - so how are Odin symbols / patches permissable? Funny they had to remove the patches after the D raised concerns about them in their legal paperwork... and then... one lovely staffer got a symbol tattoo... on his FACE. If that isn't a giant F-you to the higher ups and everyone else, I'm not sure I know what is? I'd love to know when that particular guy booked himself in for that particular tattoo session... was this before or after he was told to remove patch? EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo
In a professional capacity, no one should be donning such symbols / statements in my view. Its just not acceptable and is bound to create problems where perhaps there wouldn't have been otherwise. Leave your politics and affiliations at home.

Would you expect to be allowed to wear a cross at work?

 

[Sabex]

Thank you. Here's the version with the article, too.

Lebrato:
I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.
RA = 100% innocent
(Odinism) It's a real thing and it's scary.
Confinement officers at the Allen Co. jail aren't even allowed to have facial hair let alone facial tattoos.
He had the case for 79 days as lead council.

EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

Bill Lebrato opens up about accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's trial, alleged inhumane treatment and evidence of white nationalist Odinist involvement.

www.courttv.com

How is Odinism scary?

 

[FrostedGlass]

How is Odinism scary?

We don't know because he didn't elaborate as far as I know.

He had access to the crime scene pictures; maybe there was something about those he thought was scary.

 

[Sabex]

We don't know because he didn't elaborate as far as I know.

He had access to the crime scene pictures; maybe there was something about those he thought was scary.

I'm sure photographs of the murders would be beyond my capacity to bear.

I still don't buy the Odinism angle, for reasons I've mentioned before (Odinists tend to be folkish; they wouldn't hurt one of their own without incredible provocation. Two little girls would be unable to generate the outrage necessary).

Anyone can put twigs in an arrangement. Still calling BS.

 

[girlhasnoname]

@girlhasnoname RSBM

You can search by attorney in Indiana records. Baldwin has represented literally over a thousand cases. Not in over his head; this isn't his first rodeo. These are only the ones that have been resolved, not pending.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Rozzi has plenty of experience also; again, literally thousands.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

From your link out of 1,000 cases shown for Baldwin the majority of his were theft, driving while intoxicated, and drug related. Only 2 of those cases were one manslaughter and one murder. It doesn't surprise me that Baldwin hasn't handled a lot of murder cases, especially a double homicide high profile case at that.

Now to sort through Rozzi's LOL

 

[AugustWest]

From your link out of 1,000 cases shown for Baldwin the majority of his were theft, driving while intoxicated, and drug related. Only 2 of those cases were one manslaughter and one murder. It doesn't surprise me that Baldwin hasn't handled a lot of murder cases, especially a double homicide high profile case at that.

Now to sort through Rozzi's LOL

Criminal procedure doesn't change between differing types of cases.

ETA: Most attorneys will go their whole career not seeing a double murder case. I don't know why you would hold that against someone.

ETA2: I've already counted four murder trials for AB, and I'm still in the first 20 pages of his casework. Not planning on looking through another 1000 to see how many more.

 

[girlhasnoname]

@girlhasnoname RSBM

You can search by attorney in Indiana records. Baldwin has represented literally over a thousand cases. Not in over his head; this isn't his first rodeo. These are only the ones that have been resolved, not pending.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Rozzi has plenty of experience also; again, literally thousands.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Rozzi - Only got through 700 and his specialty seems to be vehicle related, speeding, operating with no license, OWI. He does have more Battery cases, mostly misdemeanor but some Felony ones. The typical drug possession and theft cases.

I didn't see any manslaughter or murder charges yet, but can't keep going through them one by one.

Overall, R&B are your typical successful local lawyers handling the basic, normal cases not highly specialized against murderers.

JMO