Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[sunshineray]

People say a lot of things on these forums. That certainly doesn't make the same comments good legal advice.

That's a good hedge

 

[sunshineray]

Why would I, as a defense attorney for a person accused of double murder, and after hearing my client has confessed, then advise my client to make more confessions, then try to have all the confessions suppressed prior to trial? Why would I make life harder on myself by doing that? If I didn't want the confessions to be heard at trial, why add more problems to deal with?

That fact scenario will never make sense to me. It sounds completely ludicrous. IMO

Maybe because you're an attorney with integrity and ethics. I've seen only the opposite from these attorneys. Maybe they want the notoriety? As far as why ask for the confessions to be squashed, playing both sides of the coin? The extra work...would they really care when looking to future benefits? I've seen nothing from AB&BR to think that the very worst of behaviors aren't in their wheelhouse. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

IMO
RA's attys didn't seem too distressed over the admissions to his wife and mother.
The D were the ones who brought the issue up.
I think they said something something about the jury hearing it in context.

I wouldn't expect a defendant's lawyers to come out and say, we're so very upset our client has confessed so many times. No they did exactly what you'd expect, our client's mental and physical health is so compromised, he's living like a POW. He's so stressed out...look threatening Odinists in the prison! MO

 

[grannygates]

When a person is exposed to psychological torture for years, they will go crazy. The confessions that we know of are like “i shot them in the back”, so we have no clue the extent of the confessions. I’m sure if they try hard enough, they can get him to say anything.

Meanwhile, another person (not being actively tortured) confessed twice and said his DNA would be there.

It would be wonderful if law enforcement did a DNA test when someone tells them that they spat on the crime scene but there’s no mention of that anywhere. One can only hope.

 

[AugustWest]

Maybe because you're an attorney with integrity and ethics. I've seen only the opposite from these attorneys. Maybe they want the notoriety? As far as why ask for the confessions to be squashed, playing both sides of the coin? The extra work...would they really care when looking to future benefits? I've seen nothing from AB&BR to think that the very worst of behaviors aren't in their wheelhouse. AJMO

IF they wanted the confessions/statements thrown out, there would be no future benefit. The confessions would be (1) not thrown out, and as a result the defense would need to attempt to have even more confessions thrown out; or (2) the confessions would be thrown out, wouldn't be shown to a jury, and therefore would be as though they never existed at all.

I don't see bad behavior by the defense. The worst they have done, IMO, is to hire a person who turned out to be a thief.

 

[gremlin444]

That and the fact that this jury was going to be sequestered, which would obviously made it even harder. IMO

In addition to the impact on the court's calendar, juries definitely have to be taken into consideration when looking at length of a trial and/or the need to limit it. The longer a trial is expected to go, the harder it is to find jurors who are able and willing to serve for that amount of time. And if an open ended trial starts going longer, then you run a high risk of jurors needing to drop out due to the threat of losing their jobs and/or other life events. The Murdaugh trial was open ended and estimated to last 3 weeks--it ended up lasting 5 weeks and 2 days. After the 3 week mark, one juror was told by their employer that they weren't going to be able to keep their job waiting for them and the court had to speak with the employer to resolve the situation and reassure them of a new estimated timeline for the end of the trial. The longer a trial is, the higher risk you run of losing jurors to illness/life events and needing to start going through your alternates. The Murdaugh trial had 6 alternates, and by the time deliberations started they were down to 1 (after having to get rid of a main juror right before deliberations started).

 

[sunshineray]

When a person is exposed to psychological torture for years, they will go crazy. The confessions that we know of are like “i shot them in the back”, so we have no clue the extent of the confessions. I’m sure if they try hard enough, they can get him to say anything.

Meanwhile, another person (not being actively tortured) confessed twice and said his DNA would be there.

It would be wonderful if law enforcement did a DNA test when someone tells them that they spat on the crime scene but there’s no mention of that anywhere. One can only hope.

If who tried hard enough?

 

[grannygates]

re: no restriction on prosecution time and definitive end dates on criminal trials.

Since I read that I've been scouring the internet to determine if this has ever been done in a criminal trial. I haven't found anything that says that this happens or is normal. The legal professionals that I've found that are talking about this judges order are saying exactly the opposite. its unheard of in their history.

Obviously I haven't exhausted the entire internet of information. But if its real, there has to be something out there that says this has happened before and I'm just not finding it. Does anyone have any links that say this is something that happens?

 

[TTF14]

It would be wonderful if law enforcement did a DNA test when someone tells them that they spat on the crime scene but there’s no mention of that anywhere. One can only hope.

RSBM

Seems like all they did was give a puzzling look and chin scratch. "Hmm, what an odd thing to say. Oh well, carry on."

MOO IMO

 

[mrjitty]

So a week has gone by since Judge Gull's denial of the recusal motion.

I wonder how long until we see some signs of life in the case? Perhaps the rescheduling of the delayed hearings? Would that set off another run at SCOIN?

MOO

 

[TTF14]

I am not a lawyer. I did take business law in college, which is in no way equivalent to your knowledge. (too many years ago) Always thought slander/libel had to meet three ingredients. Something like, had to be false, had to have been stated to a third party, and had to cause damage?

Maybe start using the word accused, along with IMO or MMO?

BBM

I'm actually kind of surprised that's not already a rule here on WS. Guess it would be a nightmare to enforce, though.

I loved Business Law in college . I had the best professor!

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

re: no restriction on prosecution time and definitive end dates on criminal trials.

Since I read that I've been scouring the internet to determine if this has ever been done in a criminal trial. I haven't found anything that says that this happens or is normal. The legal professionals that I've found that are talking about this judges order are saying exactly the opposite. its unheard of in their history.

Obviously I haven't exhausted the entire internet of information. But if its real, there has to be something out there that says this has happened before and I'm just not finding it. Does anyone have any links that say this is something that happens?

I would imagine that it sometimes does happen, especially when juries are sequestered. Judge Gull saying that's the only way she has ever done it and has never heard of trials have open-ended end dates are what I take issue with.....it just can't possibly be true unless she lives in a bubble! IANAL, but I have watched a lot of trials (none with sequestration for the whole time that I can recall) and have never seen it, not once.

Seems to me that it's much more typical for trials to be scheduled "extra long" to provide a cushion. And if they end "early" then that opens up the schedule for emergency hearings or a quick scheduling of hearings for other cases, etc. There's no shortage of crime in this country, so I doubt it's difficult to fill up those slots or get caught up on paperwork!

@AugustWest - what say you about this topic?

IMO MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

INDIANAPOLIS, Ind.- On Thursday, investigators say they had recovered DNA evidence from the Delphi crime scene where two girls, 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German, were found murdered.

This comes from an article that was published in the early days of the investigation.

Someone had commented about DNA.
This commentary does state that DNA exists.

https://fox59.com/news/dna-evidence-recovered-in-delphi-murder-investigation/

 

[sunshineray]

re: no restriction on prosecution time and definitive end dates on criminal trials.

Since I read that I've been scouring the internet to determine if this has ever been done in a criminal trial. I haven't found anything that says that this happens or is normal. The legal professionals that I've found that are talking about this judges order are saying exactly the opposite. its unheard of in their history.

Obviously I haven't exhausted the entire internet of information. But if its real, there has to be something out there that says this has happened before and I'm just not finding it. Does anyone have any links that say this is something that happens?

Who said there was no restrictions on the prosecution's time?

 

[grannygates]

Who said there was no restrictions on the prosecution's time?

The judge's order. I shared a screenshot earlier on but I can find and repost.

 

[sunshineray]

INDIANAPOLIS, Ind.- On Thursday, investigators say they had recovered DNA evidence from the Delphi crime scene where two girls, 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German, were found murdered.

This comes from an article that was published in the early days of the investigation.

Someone had commented about DNA.
This commentary does state that DNA exists.

https://fox59.com/news/dna-evidence-recovered-in-delphi-murder-investigation/

And Sheriff TL mentioned in a December 2018 article, which I've posted numerous (and will again if someone missed it), that DNA was sent to Quantico for "DNA research".

 

[grannygates]

INDIANAPOLIS, Ind.- On Thursday, investigators say they had recovered DNA evidence from the Delphi crime scene where two girls, 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German, were found murdered.

This comes from an article that was published in the early days of the investigation.

Someone had commented about DNA.
This commentary does state that DNA exists.

https://fox59.com/news/dna-evidence-recovered-in-delphi-murder-investigation/

I read the PCA for RL last night and it mentions that there were hairs and fibres found at the crime scene. I dont think we ever find out what happened with those?

 

[sunshineray]

INDIANAPOLIS, Ind.- On Thursday, investigators say they had recovered DNA evidence from the Delphi crime scene where two girls, 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German, were found murdered.

This comes from an article that was published in the early days of the investigation.

Someone had commented about DNA.
This commentary does state that DNA exists.

https://fox59.com/news/dna-evidence-recovered-in-delphi-murder-investigation/

And Sheriff TL mentioned in a December 2018 article, which I've posted numerous (and will again if someone missed it), that DNA was sent to Quantico for "DNA research".

 

[TTF14]

And Sheriff TL mentioned in a December 2018 article, which I've posted numerous (and will again if someone missed it), that DNA was sent to Quantico for "DNA research".

Hopefully it matches RA!

IMO MOO

 

[SleutherGirl]

And Sheriff TL mentioned in a December 2018 article, which I've posted numerous (and will again if someone missed it), that DNA was sent to Quantico for "DNA research".

What exactly does DNA "research" mean in this context? Maybe they tried to use genealogy and failed?