Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[somequestions]

Concerning the State's case, we aren't privy to all the evidence that they have...yet. MO

It would be nice to actually know what factual evidence the state has against Richard Allen. In my opinion, at this time the only hard evidence they have against him is the unspent cartridge found at the scene of the crime that toolmark analysis says could only have come from his gun. How solid is the science behind this evidence though? Then there are confessions too, but how detailed are they?

What will be really interesting at trial is to find out if the witness who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 can actually identify him as the person she saw on platform 1. If she cannot or she says she is unsure, the whole timeline might fall apart. Ironically, Richard Allen helps the state by claiming in the PCA that he indeed did walk past the Mears Farm Entrance and saw vehicles there, but did not pay any attention to them as he walked to the Monon High Bridge.

If someone else did murder Abigial Williams and Liberty German, the one conclusion I have come to is that this person came into the Monon High Bridge area and left the Monon High Bridge area without being seen or remembered.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder how closely LE watched RA after that first contact in 2022 - to see if he tried to destroy or move evidence prior to the search. If he is the perpetrator I suspect he had burner phone or phones and perhaps other digital devices that he kept hidden, possibly still hidden. Having said that, he did keep his car, which is interesting. MOO

I would guess that LE never really took their 'eyes' off Allen after their Oct 13th 2022 interview. He knew he was being looked at and would have tried to get rid of anything incriminating as subtlety as possible. Maybe like burning something in a fire pit. He was arrested on the 26th so he had a couple of weeks.

I wonder if LE ever looked through the Allen's trash if it was left outside for pickup?

Getting rid of his car after his interview on the 13th would have only looked more suspicious.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It would be nice to actually know what factual evidence the state has against Richard Allen. In my opinion, at this time the only hard evidence they have against him is the unspent cartridge found at the scene of the crime that toolmark analysis says could only have come from his gun. How solid is the science behind this evidence though? Then there are confessions too, but how detailed are they?

What will be really interesting at trial is to find out if the witness who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 can actually identify him as the person she saw on platform 1. If she cannot or she says she is unsure, the whole timeline might fall apart. Ironically, Richard Allen helps the state by claiming in the PCA that he indeed did walk past the Mears Farm Entrance and saw vehicles there, but did not pay any attention to them as he walked to the Monon High Bridge.

If someone else did murder Abigial Williams and Liberty German, the one conclusion I have come to is that this person came into the Monon High Bridge area and left the Monon High Bridge area without being seen or remembered.

It might be nice to know, but it makes absolutely no sense for the State to disclose what evidence they have against RA to the public. It will come out at trial.

I think the main points will be:
Unspent Bullet matching RA's Sig's ejector markings and brand of bullet possibly
RA's own admission to being on MHB at the time Abby & Libby were there.
RA's own admission to wearing clothing practically identical to BG, including a face covering.
Libby's Video
Evidence seized at the home during the S/W that the D has so, so desperately tried to have thrown out. Franks 1,2,3,4, and so on.
Geofencing and/or Electronic data
RA's own confessions, especially those to his wife and mother.

I think it's enough.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

This is worrying imo because people have been known to falsely confess to crimes they had nothing to do with whatsoever. And worse, people have been convicted and imprisoned as a result of same. Some are eventually freed when the real criminal(s) have been caught, but sometimes they’re not.

I don’t care if RA confessed unless he actually committed the crime. I am hoping he wasn’t fed info by anyone intentionally or not and that if he did the crime, the state has a lot more solid evidence to prove that he did it.

The Truth about False Confessions - Prisons and Justice Initiative

Above are some of the moments from our event “The Truth About False Confessions” held on Tuesday, March 22. Watch the full event and read a description below. Most people instinctively believe that only guilty people confess. But a great deal of both academic research and empirical evidence...

prisonsandjustice.georgetown.edu

To me RA confessing to his wife and mother multiple times in a phone call is key. Also his wife disconnecting that call and then RA going into a meltdown right after. Whether the call coming first before the delivery of discovery to him or after he saw the discovery...it works both ways in my mind.

All those subsequent confessions not being involved with LE interrogations (especially the letters to the warden) also gives them more value to me. It will sort itself all out when we finally get to hear exactly how RA confessed and what he's said. Details not known to the public would be very convincing. Talking about those, I believe that's the main reason the original FM included so much description of the scene, to take away from LE some of those things that only the killer knows, to weaken any further confessions RA might give. I also think it's extremely likely RA's lawyers told him to start confessing falsehoods (I shot them), pretty reprehensible of them, IMO.
All Just My Opinion

 

[somequestions]

I can't at all.

Probably because the sketches were drawn from grainy images and their eyes and noses aren't really the same.

Have just looked for images of RA to go along side those sketches to see better and...

Does anyone know if RA is left handed or not?

It has probably been discussed here before with #188 threads, I'm sure, but looking at BG on the bridge just now and then RA in a few photos - that question crossed my mind for some reason - - maybe because of their poses.

It has been discussed with various theories. The outline of the gun in the jacket from Liberty German's phone video of bridge guy looks like it was in the pocket so as to be pulled out by someone who is left-handed.

From watching Richard Allen play pool, it looks like he is right-handed. This was my own interpretation though.

Also, some crime scene photos were unfortunately released in this case. I have not seen them and do not want to, but crime scene photos can tell a story to an investigator. I have seen a re-creation of the photos and if the re-creation is correct, Liberty German's left hand is over her head. I wondered if maybe the killer dragged her body to where it was found by grabbing her left hand although that does not really prove anything about whether or not the killer is left-handed.

What really matters is the factual evidence against Richard Allen.

Can anyone at least prove how tall the person is in Liberty German's phone video?

 

[girlhasnoname]

He doesn't look like either of those sketches though - not by a long shot.

To me he looks older than the sketch of the younger male and younger than the one of the older male, but he doesn't look like either of them.

Everyone sees things differently. RA looks exactly like the first BG sketch nose, jowls, hooded eyes and the 2nd sketch looks like a younger version of the photo minus the hat and jacket to me.

Maybe LE released that second sketch when they learned about the social media connection to the A_Shots account? 2019 - I think.

MOO

 

[susiQ]

No. Judge Gull was on some kind of committee or something to support livestreaming in Indiana.

She supports it. Just not in her courtroom.

IMO MOO

RBBM
Hypocrite! What is she trying to keep from the public eye in this particular case and why!? JMO

 

[sunshineray]

No. Judge Gull was on some kind of committee or something to support livestreaming in Indiana.

She supports it. Just not in her courtroom.

IMO MOO

I believe it's because of the circus atmosphere that's exploded online and bled right onto the defense that spurred JG to that decision. I'm still hoping she'll pick two or three journalists to hear live streaming audio in a separate room, so some accurate reporting can be given to the public. Even filming it for the court to be released well after a verdict would be a good alternate to live televising. JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

He doesn't look like either of those sketches though - not by a long shot.

To me he looks older than the sketch of the younger male and younger than the one of the older male, but he doesn't look like either of them.

The sketches aren't photos

The 1st sketch is a likeness, IMO, to Libby's video capture of BG and who the witnesses saw, RA=BG

The 2nd sketch, announced at the 2019 presser, when LE said--

"We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have."

The new direction, different strategy released sketch #2 was a brilliant maneuver by LE. IMO

It sure makes sense now after connecting all the dots. JMO

Delphi murders update: ISP shares new sketch, video, audio

Indiana State Police say they will announced a 'new direction' in the 2017 homicides of Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.jconline.com

 

[photographer4]

So...

At any given time the perpetrator could have returned to the scene of the crime a second+ time and especially if, as pointed out before, some of those searchers may have been as far as 15 feet from the girls before they were found.

I wonder if RA was a part of the initial search party or parties.

Was there any logs kept of who was searching? Eg: a copy of drivers license? Or names written down?

 

[Megnut]

The State had probable cause to arrest RA and charge him, he was taken into and remains in custody because proof positive or presumption great, and that was all before any confessions. The State didn't need RA's help, they obviously felt they could prove the charges BARD already. His confessions can only pad that.

When did the State modify the charges? What event precipitated that? The confessions? DNA analysis from Quantico (fiber, animal, human)? Discovery of the murder weapon (Wabash River?), new tips/leads, late returns on hard-to-unlock devices?

I happen to think their evidence bag is very full.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

RBBM
Hypocrite! What is she trying to keep from the public eye in this particular case and why!? JMO

See: Karen Read trial. Maybe stuff like that.

Just a theory.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

Was there any logs kept of who was searching? Eg: a copy of drivers license? Or names written down?

yes. (ETA: just names, I believe) IMO M

 

[TTF14]

I believe it's because of the circus atmosphere that's exploded online and bled right onto the defense that spurred JG to that decision. I'm still hoping she'll pick two or three journalists to hear live streaming audio in a separate room, so some accurate reporting can be given to the public. Even filming it for the court to be released well after a verdict would be a good alternate to live televising. JMO

She said it was because the media pool didn't follow her instructions when she allowed cameras for her public shaming hearing. She didn't specify what she meant by that, but made no mention of the "circus atmosphere." You are of course free to believe what you wish, but I'm going by what Judge Gull actually said.

IMO MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

LG weighed 200 lbs. MOO nobody was carrying her over terrain.

It might be nice to know, but it makes absolutely no sense for the State to disclose what evidence they have against RA to the public. It will come out at trial.

I think the main points will be:
Unspent Bullet matching RA's Sig's ejector markings and brand of bullet possibly
RA's own admission to being on MHB at the time Abby & Libby were there.
RA's own admission to wearing clothing practically identical to BG, including a face covering.
Libby's Video
Evidence seized at the home during the S/W that the D has so, so desperately tried to have thrown out. Franks 1,2,3,4, and so on.
Geofencing and/or Electronic data
RA's own confessions, especially those to his wife and mother.

I think it's enough.

JMO

If nothing was found with respect to the Search Warrant, the Defence Team wouldn’t be working so hard to get it thrown out. There is something BIG in there that may seal the deal.

IMO what we know from an evidentiary perspective is minuscule compared to what the Prosecution actually has.

A trial can’t come soon enough.

MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It would be nice to actually know what factual evidence the state has against Richard Allen. In my opinion, at this time the only hard evidence they have against him is the unspent cartridge found at the scene of the crime that toolmark analysis says could only have come from his gun. How solid is the science behind this evidence though? Then there are confessions too, but how detailed are they?

What will be really interesting at trial is to find out if the witness who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 can actually identify him as the person she saw on platform 1. If she cannot or she says she is unsure, the whole timeline might fall apart. Ironically, Richard Allen helps the state by claiming in the PCA that he indeed did walk past the Mears Farm Entrance and saw vehicles there, but did not pay any attention to them as he walked to the Monon High Bridge.

If someone else did murder Abigial Williams and Liberty German, the one conclusion I have come to is that this person came into the Monon High Bridge area and left the Monon High Bridge area without being seen or remembered.

RA puts himself on the bridge.
The witness confirms a man dressed like BG was standing on the first platform at a certain time. RA, himself, stated that man was him.

 

[sunshineray]

The sketches aren't photos

The 1st sketch is a likeness, IMO, to Libby's video capture of BG and who the witnesses saw, RA=BG

The 2nd sketch, announced at the 2019 presser, when LE said--

"We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have."

The new direction, different strategy released sketch #2 was a brilliant maneuver by LE. IMO

It sure makes sense now after connecting all the dots. JMO

Delphi murders update: ISP shares new sketch, video, audio

Indiana State Police say they will announced a 'new direction' in the 2017 homicides of Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.jconline.com

I've always found it very interesting that in Dec 2018 LE sent DNA to Quantico for "DNA testing research" and in January 2019 CE (who to me was almost a ringer for the first sketch released) was arrested for crimes involving young teenaged girls. Then in April 2019, a new and totally different sketch was released. I don't know if that's all cause and effect but it's interesting.

Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby told RadarOnline.com exclusively that they were hoping for a break in the case of Indiana teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German’s gruesome murders after they sent new evidence to the FBI headquarters in Quantico.

radaronline.com

Randolph Co. sexual abuse suspect draws comparisons to Delphi murderer

The recent arrest of an Indiana man is drawing new attention after reports that he resembles the suspect in the Delphi murders.

www.wthr.com

 

[TTF14]

If nothing was found with respect to the Search Warrant, the Defence Team wouldn’t be working so hard to get it thrown out. There is something BIG in there that may seal the deal.

IMO what we know from an evidentiary perspective is minuscule compared to what the Prosecution actually has.

A trial can’t come soon enough.

MOO

I don't think the point is to get what was found in the search warrant thrown out. The goal is to get the whole case dismissed because the search warrant was obtained illegally, is how I understand it. So of course they are going to keep trying.....their client is in prison and wants out. It's not about an item, it's about a whole life.

IMO MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

RBBM
Hypocrite! What is she trying to keep from the public eye in this particular case and why!? JMO

Why? Maybe because of the SM cranks and circus performers. Judge Gull barred 2 YT-ers from the Contempt hearing from attending any further, it got so bad they almost came to blows.

A Courtroom is a reverant place to be treated with dignity and respect. This will be an emotional trial of Defendant Allen for the brutal murders of Abby & Libby. I don't blame Judge Gull one bit for not trusting the D or their less than trust worthy followers from trying to pull some camera worthy stunts. It's her Court, it's her decision, and I support it.

I wonder if the Due Process Gang will be allowed to attend?

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

She said it was because the media pool didn't follow her instructions when she allowed cameras for her public shaming hearing. She didn't specify what she meant by that, but made no mention of the "circus atmosphere." You are of course free to believe what you wish, but I'm going by what Judge Gull actually said.

IMO MOO

View attachment 520235

It makes sense JG wouldn't mention a circus atmosphere but it's undeniably there in your face, in the courtroom. Youtubers getting kick out of the courtroom. I wonder exactly which media pool personalities, since she did officially mention them, ruined it for all? MO