Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[m00c0w]

No. I’m a long time gun owner and I’ve done my own research about ballistics and how unreliable it is. It doesn’t make any logical sense to me personally. There’s no science behind it, no computers etc. Its just some guy looking in a microscope.

I don’t trust that the human eye is capable, with any degree of trusted certainty, of matching a bullet to a random gun using just the ejector and extractor markings.

If there was a control group of 20 guns and a human was able to say which one was most likely, like they do in police-involved shootings directly after the event, I could include that in my considerations. But in this case, it is one gun out of hundreds of thousands of sig sauers in America, so I don’t think that is believable to me on its face, with my own experience and research.

Not to mention the issues regarding who actually found the bullet, how it was found several inches in the ground, several weeks after the crime scene tape was taken down, How long was it in the ground for, why are we supposed to believe that it belongs to this crime and the missing chain of custody afterwards.

Im a far ways off from believing this one.

Although we know this tool mark stuff is allowed in Indiana under Turner. But if you read the case law about that.. eek. I very much disagree with it. but I’m not a judge, I don’t make the rules. i’m just here to talk about them!
All MOO

I guess my thing here is... The cops just managed to find someone who admitted to being on the trails that day, that also owned a matching firearm? Believing in toolmark forensics or not, just those two things together are an incredible coincidence. Start adding in some of the other factors such as description, lack of an alibi... and the only explanation one starts to come up with is that someone had to have decided to frame RA back in 2017, planted the round at some point in the days after the homicides, and then waited several years to spring the trap. For... reasons unknown.

JMO

Edit for clarity

 

[twall]

Has anyone written what RA’s reaction was to hearing these gruesome details?

Not written but spoken on Court TV tonight. Kevin, Aine, Susan Hendricks and Dr. Judy Ho were on the second hour of Vinnie's show tonight hosted by Ted Rollins, watching now live on my TV as it is wrapping up at 10:00 pm so no link yet.

 

[Spartygirl]

From: https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-expert-reveals-details-about-girls-deaths/

“In my opinion, this was a textbook ritual murder. It has all the elements listed there,” Perlmutter testified. Perlmutter also testified that she was positive that the sticks were placed in a ritualistic manner and not with the intention of covering up or hiding the body.

When asked by the prosecution, “If the defendant made a statement that the branches were there and he tried to cover the bodies with them, would that change your mind,” Perlnutter said no.

Prosecutor McClure noted that Perlmutter was paid to testify and has no official blood splatter training.

Note by me: the expert's list of "things you find in ritual murders" included "atypical blood splatter," which is why the prosecutor wanted to note this.

Also:

The prosecutor also pointed out that Perlmutter went on CourtTV and said that the killing was a ritual killing last November. But she testified today she did not see any evidence or any crime scene photos until this April. The prosecutor pointed out she made the determination that Libby and Abby were ritualistically killed on CourtTV before seeing evidence in the case.

Well, now we know where that $12,500 bill R & B are billing the state for is going.
the trip to GA was a nothing burger that resulted in ...Nothing

But they need $$ to pay a so called expert who made a determination PRIOR to even seeing evidence of the murders of Libby and Abby.

SMH and JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The transcripts from these hearings should be out in a couple weeks so we’ll be able to read everything that’s happening in these court hearings. There are people who have already collected money to buy them and will be sharing with the public MOO

IIRC transcripts are quite costly. I want to say maybe $1.50 per page. So, these 3 days of hearings could have a hefty price when it comes to transcription of it all.

Off to see what I can find for Indiana though as it could be less/more. Dunno'

 

[katydid23]

The prison section is called solitary confinement, per the prison. It’s not a discussion in semantics over whether he has contact with other people in general.

I think that is a very important discussion about semantics. 'Solitary Confinement' in its standard form can be severe and cruel. And yet we see that RA's situation seems different in important ways.

Here is standard definition of Solitary Confinement:

While there is no universally agreed definition of solitary confinement – often also called ‘segregation’, ‘isolation’, ‘lockdown’ or ‘super-max’ – it is commonly understood to be the physical isolation of individuals who are confined to their cells for 22 to 24 hours a day, and allowed only minimal meaningful interaction with others.

Contact with family or visitors is often restricted or denied altogether, despite the fact that contact with family in particular, has been shown to be an important factor in successful rehabilitation.

Solitary confinement increases the risk of torture or ill-treatment going unnoticed and undetected, and it can in itself constitute torture and ill-treatment, in particular where it is prolonged or indefinite.

OK, RA had his own tablet, with which he could call family or friends whenever he felt like it. He could watch films and listen to music. So this does not fit with the usual definition of 'solitary' confinement. Contact with friends and family was not restricted.

And there were trustees who stood just outside his cell and many conversed with him.

As to 'torture or mistreatment going unnoticed'---he was being filmed and watched 24/7, for his own protection. There was no indication that he was actually being tortured or mistreated, in spite of the D's claims.

There are two incidents of him being tased but that is what happens to any of the inmates if they defy the guards. That does not rise to the level of torture.

As to his psychosis, there are a few potential causes. It was probably a combination of al of them. Depression from being incarcerated and charged with a serious crime, mixed with longstanding MH issues and possibly exacerbated by feelings of guilt and remorse. JMO

They discuss in detail in testimony yesterday about RA being housed in solitary confinement, the hole, the shoo, administrative segregation, whatever synonym you want to use.

This is directly from the prison staff who work at the prison and once the transcripts are released we can read for ourselves.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

Update from the Carroll County Comet: Carroll County Comet

"Day three in Carroll County Circuit Court gave a glimpse into the Defense’s evidence supporting a third-party suspect being responsible for the crimes.
Dr. Dawn Perlmutter, a scholar and author who works consults for the FBI, testified this morning that the deaths of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were, in her opinion, “textbook ritualistic killings.”
Perlmutter cited what she called crime scene indicators of ritualistic murder, including the location where the girls were killed. She likened the area near the Monon High Bridge to “casting a circle” sanctifying a space in a “clearing” near trees and a body of water. This she said is a “strong indicator” of an Odinist practice.

So a 'place in a clearing near trees and a body of water' is a ritual circle?

Isn't it also a picnic place, a good campsite, a good place for teens to chill, a make-out spot, a place for hikers to rest, and a good place to take selfies?

The date of the girls’ deaths coincide with an Odinist sacrificial holiday that starts at sundown in Feb. 13 and ends at sundown on Feb. 14.

If that is a known 'sacrificial holiday'---did she provide a list of sacrificed murder victims from that known date?

The murder weapon she said she believed to be a ceremonial knife. Prosecutor Nick McLeland mentioned in cross examination that perhaps it was not a ceremonial knife, but rather a box cutter. We learned yesterday from law enforcement testimony that they searched a dumpster behind CVS for an CVS issued box cutter they allege Richard Allen tossed in the trash."

 

[katydid23]

She goes into great detail listing all the subjects she looks for when deciphering a crime scene and what her opinion is on each one in this case. It’s very interesting IMO

How many Odinist ritual sacrifices has she deciphered over the years?

 

[katydid23]

Are you saying that this highly qualified woman is making this up, putting her reputation on the line, all for money? Dawn Perlmutter, Ph.D.

Has this highly qualified woman done a lot of research on previous Odinist ritual sacrifices? How many?

 

[MiniMoo]

Has this highly qualified woman done a lot of research on previous Odinist ritual sacrifices? How many?

Wouldn't take much to read about one and set it up to look like a ritual sacrifice.

 

[katydid23]

Or, her initial opinion based on secondhand information was only solidified when she saw the actual evidence. I am not sure what the issue is here.

I'd like to see what she has based it on. That 'clearing by water and trees' means nothing. It is not Odinist any more than it is a good place to make s'mores.

And that 'known' date for ritual sacrifices---I'd like her to give us a list of all the known Odinist sacrifices on that known date she has studied in the past.

ANYONE in the woods with 2 dead victims that they want to camouflage could toss tree branches and leaves on top. That doesn't automatically make them Odinists. IMO

 

[TTF14]

Despite how long today was, I think lots of people aren't going to be sleeping so great tonight.

A lot came out today. Wow.

IMO MOO

 

[katydid23]

Also,if the Defense is saying that the timing is inaccurate as far as what has been established, does this expert believe that the bodies were placed in that area in the Middle of the night and then the ritual took place?

Or, were the girls taken elsewhere and brought back alive at night and THEN a ritual took place in pitch darkness? But, somehow these Heathens were able to make an elaborate set with ritualistic symbols?

Can someone please tell me exactly what the defense is saying?

Make it make sense please!

And the group ritual sacrifice was then taking place in the middle of the night, right there, while there were still family, friends and first responders looking for the girls?

 

[twall]

Testimony on Thursday also provided answers to why ISP took temporary custody of another person of interest, Kegan Kline, and spent weeks searching the Wabash River under a bridge near his Peru home. This happened a few months before Allen's arrest in 2022.

Kline reportedly lied to detectives that he and his father were at a cemetery near the wooded area where the girls were found on the day of the homicides. He also told police his dad threw a knife and cell phone into the river while they drove over the bridge on the way home.

Searchers found many knives and cell phones in the water but nothing of value to the investigation, one officer testified on Thursday evening.

Delphi homicide suspect Richard Allen to be moved back to county jail

Delphi double homicide suspect Richard Allen is heading back to county jail.

www.wlfi.com

So KK lied? I'm shocked!

 

[katydid23]

Yes it is talked about with some details by the warden, the internal affairs officer and the psychologist who testified yesterday. The warden said that they do not do any sort of background check on the inmate companions regarding their charges etc but they are the trustee inmates. They get time off their sentences if they get useful information. IMO It’s basically a jail house snitch program lol

The psychologist said that she was against the inmate companions because they are not allowed to speak to the person that they are watching. This was an issue from the beginning, as the inmates were constantly breaking the rules and talking to RA, asking questions, spreading this around other inmates and telling their friends at home.

MOO

So what is the difference between that, and RA being in Gen Pop?

If he was going out to regular meals and exercise etc, all the inmates would be able to talk to him, ask questions, spread things around, etc.

So they place the most trusted 'trustee' inmates at his door, who speak to him, listen to him, and now there are complaints about that.

I THOUGHT the complaints were about him being isolated in solitary with no contact with others? NOW the complaint is that he has daily contact with others?

 

[Andieinsyd]

It seems to me that the crime scene likely has some indications of a ritualistic killing. Purdue Prof will IMO be less adamant but won’t rule it out and Dr Dawn Perlmutterfrom today will testify strongly to that. So are D going all in with one or all three of their preferred Odinists or just leaving it broad? Because this would make the link much more challenging IMO given they haven’t broken the alibis of the three as far as I know.
MOO

 

[katydid23]

Why do you supposed he has sat there for 3 days in court now, not declaring his guilt?

Probably because his team is promising to blame it on the Odinists and he will soon be free.

 

[Andieinsyd]

How many Odinist ritual sacrifices has she deciphered over the years?

I’d also be very interested to see accounts of other murders which had similar elements.

 

[katydid23]

The trustees take their jobs very serious. I linked an article many threads back about how some are traumatized by the things they see. Calling them “actors” is a stretch. People are on suicide watch and their fellow prisoners are there to provide a lifeline. Sounds humane.

I completely agree.

First people are complaining that he is being kept isolated with no human contact at all.

Then the complaints are about fellow inmates, being paid to prevent him from killing himself, by sitting outside his door and communicating with him.

So which one is it?

 

[katydid23]

Westville doesn't exactly have a reputation for its altruism. These are all convicted felons getting paid to do this job.

Who else is going to do the job?

If guards were placed outside his door to watch him, that would be considered awful.

So fellow inmates, who have nothing but time on their hands sit there and often converse with him, and get money for their snacks and toothpaste.

Convicted felons are getting paid to do the job because they are right there and willing to work.

Would it be better if no one was there looking out for him and speaking to him?

 

[katydid23]

The trustee inmate is supposed to watch and write down what they observe. They are not allowed to speak to the other inmate.

There was issues immediately with these inmates talking to RA, asking questions about his case, spreading this information amongst other inmates and calling their friends and family at home and discussing things that they said to RA and That he said in return.

These particular trustees that we are discussing do not have a good reputation regarding following the rules of this program as testified by the prison staff yesterday.

MOO

Of course they are going to speak to each other. They are incarcerated with very little interaction with others available.

I think it is a good thing that he has fellow inmates sitting right there---especially if they communicate with him. If it wasn't for the fact that he was sometimes confessing, people here would probably be happy that he had this human interaction, imo.