Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[sunshineray]

Yeah, I suppose we just have to really hope that they have insurmountable evidence that it was indeed RA who marched them off that bridge. I wonder how they present this significant bit to the jury and how the D might argue against it...

Listening to RA's words of confession with all context and details ought to be pretty persuasive. MO

 

[grannygates]

The paranoia it created destroyed lives. Now that the D is attempting to ride on that same scheme while testing it out on a whole new generation, IMO is the most sickening means of attempting to defend their client that I can possibly imagine. Especially because it’s based on nothing other than speculation and imagination. MOO

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/outintheopen/fighting-falsehoods-1.5056457/satanic-cult-scandal-that-rocked-a-small-saskatchewan-town-in-92-continues-to-haunt-the-falsely-accused-1.5074956

JP received an official government apology and a $1.3 million settlement for malicious prosecution in the '92 Satanic child sex abuse case. Yet, the former police officer says, the heinous false accusations originally made against him will be 'associated with me until I go to my grave.'

I can appreciate the sentiment behind your concerns when it comes to falsely accusing someone of a crime, and I do think that there will be a lawsuit with respect to that topic in some capacity.

With the 3rd parties, the original investigators, FBI and special task force and experts are testifying to their own work, providing reports and evidence they collected in the first years of the investigation.

We would have to defer to one of our legal experts regarding this, as they’re not making an accusation that these people are responsible. They’re highlighting the loose ends and poor quality of investigation surrounding these subjects, suggesting we can’t rule them out as an option especially since there is so much destroyed evidence and they fit the profile of the crime better. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Because he is worried about his wife and mother rejecting him.

Yes that's something Dr. W testified about (day two IIRC). RA was desperate to hear his wife and mother say they would still love him.

 

[MiniMoo]

It wouldn't just be for appearing in the back of a video.

I think the state will be able to show definitively that the man in the video was the one that forced the girls off the bridge at gunpoint.

They can convict him of murder if they can prove he was Bridge Guy. If they can show that he was the one that used a gun to frighten them and take them down the hill, then it will be beyond a reasonable doubt that he was responsible for their deaths. IMO

The footage shown publically of the cell phone video - is it at the end of what Libby German was filming or the very start.

Does anyone know?

 

[iamshadow21]

The footage shown publically of the cell phone video - is it at the end of what Libby German was filming or the very start.

Does anyone know?

We know that there was what was referred to as 'girl talk' and mention of a man, presumably the one following them, earlier, but I don't know if it was part of the same video file. The full audio was played for the families.

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

www.wthr.com

MOO

 

[katydid23]

The footage shown publically of the cell phone video - is it at the end of what Libby German was filming or the very start.

Does anyone know?

I am pretty sure it is close to the start. Because the next thing that happens is he says Down The Hill....but we don't know what happens next except one 'leak' seems to be that one of the girls says GUN....

 

[sunshineray]

I didn't say that it would make him not guilty, or even less guilty at any point? I'm only pointing out, that while a single man who may be RA is on LG's video on the bridge, it doesn't mean that this single male is the only one who was there. Sorry if I was unclear in any way.

Unless of course he confesses with details that he was the only one there. If he has done that, should we not believe him?

 

[chaz]

Random question:
Did CVS ever had a service to digitize paper photographs?

 

[sunshineray]

I definitely don’t know nearly enough about the laws to say what the judge will or should allow in, But I have a hard time understanding how they wouldn’t be able to talk about an investigation that spanned the first 2.5 years of the case.

It will definitely be interesting to see how the judge rules. Would a judge actually not allow the FBI agents to testify at the trial about their participation in the case?

Because RA is the man on trial, not 4 or 5 other guys that thorough investigations have cleared from being involved in the murders of Abby and Libby. It's elemental, MO

 

[MiniMoo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1819796109885112606

Probably not the greatest choice as an expert - it seems she had already decided it was ritualistic as far back as September 2023 on CourtTV. I don't think that was with photos then either as she never got those until April 2024.

If anyone understands it to be different by all means please pitch in.

 

[MiniMoo]

We know that there was what was referred to as 'girl talk' and mention of a man, presumably the one following them, earlier, but I don't know if it was part of the same video file. The full audio was played for the families.

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

www.wthr.com

MOO

It could be girls talking girls talk then noticing him followed up by Libby German swinging around to film him as he gets closer before putting the phone in her pocket, if she did.

If there is more footage and the phone isn't out in the open - audio only really.

 

[sunshineray]

I can definitely understand how someone could make that assumption. I was just stating in the capacity of people convicting bridge guy of the murder for appearing in the back of a video. I don’t believe that one could definitively state that this man was 100% the voice because there is no video, only audio, so no one can definitively state for a fact who that voice belongs to.

I’m more thinking of it in the “convicting this person of the murder” aspect of the requirement of evidence. I think that it is a fair assumption that the investigators would explore the assumption that the person and the voice could belong to the same person.

MOO

They have video. I don't understand why you think the man approaching on video, on the bridge isn't the speaker of G, DTH?

As he's approaching Abby says (paraphrasing) Can't we keep going? and Libby answers, The trail ends. He gets close enough to the girls that Abby says (paraphrasing), Is that a gun? He has a gun. Then the man says, "Guys" Libby mutters, Umm. The next thing you hear is same guy voice, "Down the hill".

How is that NOT the same man that was just videoed crossing the bridge towards them? I don't see how that's in question?

 

[Spartygirl]

The paranoia it created destroyed lives. Now that the D is attempting to ride on that same scheme while testing it out on a whole new generation, IMO is the most sickening means of attempting to defend their client that I can possibly imagine. Especially because it’s based on nothing other than speculation and imagination. MOO

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/outintheopen/fighting-falsehoods-1.5056457/satanic-cult-scandal-that-rocked-a-small-saskatchewan-town-in-92-continues-to-haunt-the-falsely-accused-1.5074956

JP received an official government apology and a $1.3 million settlement for malicious prosecution in the '92 Satanic child sex abuse case. Yet, the former police officer says, the heinous false accusations originally made against him will be 'associated with me until I go to my grave.'

I hope BH and company file against the D team for dragging these innocent men into a double murder case.
Blasting their names when LE already investigated them and cleared them is definitely defamation of character and all other kinds of character/personal damage to them and their families.

 

[ClearAhead]

I can appreciate the sentiment behind your concerns when it comes to falsely accusing someone of a crime, and I do think that there will be a lawsuit with respect to that topic in some capacity.

With the 3rd parties, the original investigators, FBI and special task force and experts are testifying to their own work, providing reports and evidence they collected in the first years of the investigation.

We would have to defer to one of our legal experts regarding this, as they’re not making an accusation that these people are responsible. They’re highlighting the loose ends and poor quality of investigation surrounding these subjects, suggesting we can’t rule them out as an option especially since there is so much destroyed evidence and they fit the profile of the crime better. IMO

A suggestion that someone can’t be ruled out (after LE has no further interest in investigating them) sure seems like an accusation that these people are responsible. They’ve become synonymous to RA’s SODDI defense.

During the hearing McLeland asked each defense witness if any of the named Odenists could be placed in Delphi on February 13, 2017. Each person answered NO yet you suggest “we can’t rule them out as an option”?

 

[sunshineray]

The police questioned his daughter's friends? I don't think I knew this before and its not shocking since I'm so far behind. Where could I go to learn more about this - is there a link pls and thanks?

It was talked about in the link. ISP Holeman's testimony

The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Day Three

Additional content warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide. Today in the Delphi case, we attended the final day of pre-trial hearings. It ended around 8:30 p.m. Our coverage of the first day: https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/2c839e4e-6eee-4c56-b185-f7821df89131 Our...

art19.com

 

[kae27]

Because RA is the man on trial, not 4 or 5 other guys that thorough investigations have cleared from being involved in the murders of Abby and Libby. It's elemental, MO

I keep seeing the word "cleared" being thrown around, but I'm not sure it's being used correctly. Is there a link to a statement from law enforcement that these 4-5 men you referenced were "cleared"? Note that I'm not asking if there was an alibi, nor does the arrest of one person mean others are in the clear. Thank you!

 

[sunshineray]

I hope BH and company file against the D team for dragging these innocent men into a double murder case.
Blasting their names when LE already investigated them and cleared them is definitely defamation of character and all other kinds of character/personal damage to them and their families.

And I think there's something in the law that says they can't...ain't that a kick in the butt. Just zealous lawyers. Like the Mob, "It's not personal, it's business".

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I am pretty sure it is close to the start. Because the next thing that happens is he says Down The Hill....but we don't know what happens next except one 'leak' seems to be that one of the girls says GUN....

We don’t have to guess. It’s clearly explained in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023
Begins on page 123 and description of video of page 124

Libby is video taping Abby walking on the MHB and RA is seen approaching Abby from behind. One of girls says “Gun” and then the man is seen and heard directing the girls down the hill.
The video ends shortly after.
Page 128 states that on the video you can hear the gun being cycled.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

 

[iamshadow21]

We don’t have to guess. It’s clearly explained in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023
Begins on page 123 and description of video of page 124

Libby is video taping Abby walking on the MHB and RA is seen approaching Abby from behind. One of girls says “Gun” and then the man is seen and heard directing the girls down the hill.
The video ends shortly after.
Page 128 states that on the video you can hear the gun being cycled.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

Seen and heard. Brilliant. That puts that to bed, then. BG is the one who spoke, no question.

 

[sunshineray]

I can appreciate the sentiment behind your concerns when it comes to falsely accusing someone of a crime, and I do think that there will be a lawsuit with respect to that topic in some capacity.

With the 3rd parties, the original investigators, FBI and special task force and experts are testifying to their own work, providing reports and evidence they collected in the first years of the investigation.

We would have to defer to one of our legal experts regarding this, as they’re not making an accusation that these people are responsible. They’re highlighting the loose ends and poor quality of investigation surrounding these subjects, suggesting we can’t rule them out as an option especially since there is so much destroyed evidence and they fit the profile of the crime better. IMO

I strongly disagree. It wasn't highlighting being done in the FM, they were accusing those men of murder, still are, so much so that they just spent 6 grand on an Odinist expert to back up the statements in their FM. The DT are very committed to bringing those men into RA's trial as alternative murderers. That's not just highlighting percieved loose ends. MO