Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[sunshineray]

I can definitely understand how someone could make that assumption. I was just stating in the capacity of people convicting bridge guy of the murder for appearing in the back of a video. I don’t believe that one could definitively state that this man was 100% the voice because there is no video, only audio, so no one can definitively state for a fact who that voice belongs to.

I’m more thinking of it in the “convicting this person of the murder” aspect of the requirement of evidence. I think that it is a fair assumption that the investigators would explore the assumption that the person and the voice could belong to the same person.

MOO

They have video. I don't understand why you think the man approaching on video, on the bridge isn't the speaker of G, DTH?

As he's approaching Abby says (paraphrasing) Can't we keep going? and Libby answers, The trail ends. He gets close enough to the girls that Abby says (paraphrasing), Is that a gun? He has a gun. Then the man says, "Guys" Libby mutters, Umm. The next thing you hear is same guy voice, "Down the hill".

How is that NOT the same man that was just videoed crossing the bridge towards them? I don't see how that's in question?

 

[Spartygirl]

The paranoia it created destroyed lives. Now that the D is attempting to ride on that same scheme while testing it out on a whole new generation, IMO is the most sickening means of attempting to defend their client that I can possibly imagine. Especially because it’s based on nothing other than speculation and imagination. MOO

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/outintheopen/fighting-falsehoods-1.5056457/satanic-cult-scandal-that-rocked-a-small-saskatchewan-town-in-92-continues-to-haunt-the-falsely-accused-1.5074956

JP received an official government apology and a $1.3 million settlement for malicious prosecution in the '92 Satanic child sex abuse case. Yet, the former police officer says, the heinous false accusations originally made against him will be 'associated with me until I go to my grave.'

I hope BH and company file against the D team for dragging these innocent men into a double murder case.
Blasting their names when LE already investigated them and cleared them is definitely defamation of character and all other kinds of character/personal damage to them and their families.

 

[ClearAhead]

I can appreciate the sentiment behind your concerns when it comes to falsely accusing someone of a crime, and I do think that there will be a lawsuit with respect to that topic in some capacity.

With the 3rd parties, the original investigators, FBI and special task force and experts are testifying to their own work, providing reports and evidence they collected in the first years of the investigation.

We would have to defer to one of our legal experts regarding this, as they’re not making an accusation that these people are responsible. They’re highlighting the loose ends and poor quality of investigation surrounding these subjects, suggesting we can’t rule them out as an option especially since there is so much destroyed evidence and they fit the profile of the crime better. IMO

A suggestion that someone can’t be ruled out (after LE has no further interest in investigating them) sure seems like an accusation that these people are responsible. They’ve become synonymous to RA’s SODDI defense.

During the hearing McLeland asked each defense witness if any of the named Odenists could be placed in Delphi on February 13, 2017. Each person answered NO yet you suggest “we can’t rule them out as an option”?

 

[sunshineray]

The police questioned his daughter's friends? I don't think I knew this before and its not shocking since I'm so far behind. Where could I go to learn more about this - is there a link pls and thanks?

It was talked about in the link. ISP Holeman's testimony

The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Day Three

Additional content warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide. Today in the Delphi case, we attended the final day of pre-trial hearings. It ended around 8:30 p.m. Our coverage of the first day: https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/2c839e4e-6eee-4c56-b185-f7821df89131 Our...

art19.com

 

[kae27]

Because RA is the man on trial, not 4 or 5 other guys that thorough investigations have cleared from being involved in the murders of Abby and Libby. It's elemental, MO

I keep seeing the word "cleared" being thrown around, but I'm not sure it's being used correctly. Is there a link to a statement from law enforcement that these 4-5 men you referenced were "cleared"? Note that I'm not asking if there was an alibi, nor does the arrest of one person mean others are in the clear. Thank you!

 

[sunshineray]

I hope BH and company file against the D team for dragging these innocent men into a double murder case.
Blasting their names when LE already investigated them and cleared them is definitely defamation of character and all other kinds of character/personal damage to them and their families.

And I think there's something in the law that says they can't...ain't that a kick in the butt. Just zealous lawyers. Like the Mob, "It's not personal, it's business".

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I am pretty sure it is close to the start. Because the next thing that happens is he says Down The Hill....but we don't know what happens next except one 'leak' seems to be that one of the girls says GUN....

We don’t have to guess. It’s clearly explained in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023
Begins on page 123 and description of video of page 124

Libby is video taping Abby walking on the MHB and RA is seen approaching Abby from behind. One of girls says “Gun” and then the man is seen and heard directing the girls down the hill.
The video ends shortly after.
Page 128 states that on the video you can hear the gun being cycled.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

 

[iamshadow21]

We don’t have to guess. It’s clearly explained in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023
Begins on page 123 and description of video of page 124

Libby is video taping Abby walking on the MHB and RA is seen approaching Abby from behind. One of girls says “Gun” and then the man is seen and heard directing the girls down the hill.
The video ends shortly after.
Page 128 states that on the video you can hear the gun being cycled.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

Seen and heard. Brilliant. That puts that to bed, then. BG is the one who spoke, no question.

 

[sunshineray]

I can appreciate the sentiment behind your concerns when it comes to falsely accusing someone of a crime, and I do think that there will be a lawsuit with respect to that topic in some capacity.

With the 3rd parties, the original investigators, FBI and special task force and experts are testifying to their own work, providing reports and evidence they collected in the first years of the investigation.

We would have to defer to one of our legal experts regarding this, as they’re not making an accusation that these people are responsible. They’re highlighting the loose ends and poor quality of investigation surrounding these subjects, suggesting we can’t rule them out as an option especially since there is so much destroyed evidence and they fit the profile of the crime better. IMO

I strongly disagree. It wasn't highlighting being done in the FM, they were accusing those men of murder, still are, so much so that they just spent 6 grand on an Odinist expert to back up the statements in their FM. The DT are very committed to bringing those men into RA's trial as alternative murderers. That's not just highlighting percieved loose ends. MO

 

[sunshineray]

The footage shown publically of the cell phone video - is it at the end of what Libby German was filming or the very start.

Does anyone know?

BG was not that far from the girls, almost to them. GH did a video of measurements, figuring out where BG was in the video, going by certain trees, the platforms, and other things. It was years ago so I don't have it handy but worth a watch.

 

[sunshineray]

I am pretty sure it is close to the start. Because the next thing that happens is he says Down The Hill....but we don't know what happens next except one 'leak' seems to be that one of the girls says GUN....

I'm pretty sure Anna, Abby's Mom, discusses what she heard on the audio in this interview

 

[Cyber sleuth]

BG was not that far from the girls, almost to them. GH did a video of measurements, figuring out where BG was in the video, going by certain trees, the platforms, and other things. It was years ago so I don't have it handy but worth a watch.

Yes he is not just innocently behind them. He approaches them at the end of a dangerous bridge, he pulls a gun, he says “Guys… down the hill” and cycles the gun.
In early audio releases you could hear the gun being cycled. IMO.
The full video has been described on many motions including the one I cited earlier.
All my opinion

 

[Tealgrove]

Yes that's something Dr. W testified about (day two IIRC). RA was desperate to hear his wife and mother say they would still love him.

I’ve never heard mention of him saying he wants his daughter to still love him. Anyone?

 

[sunshineray]

I keep seeing the word "cleared" being thrown around, but I'm not sure it's being used correctly. Is there a link to a statement from law enforcement that these 4-5 men you referenced were "cleared"? Note that I'm not asking if there was an alibi, nor does the arrest of one person mean others are in the clear. Thank you!

It was testified to over and over in the recent hearings and discussed here a lot. Those men, after much investigations, cannot be placed anywhere near the crime scene where and when the girls were murdered.
The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings
Parts 1, 2 & 3 are at this link.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[grannygates]

A suggestion that someone can’t be ruled out (after LE has no further interest in investigating them) sure seems like an accusation that these people are responsible. They’ve become synonymous to RA’s SODDI defense.

During the hearing McLeland asked each defense witness if any of the named Odenists could be placed in Delphi on February 13, 2017. Each person answered NO yet you suggest “we can’t rule them out as an option”?

I don’t personally agree that the defense should be obligated to meet a higher standard of evidence than the state has in its own case, but that’s just my person opinion. There are already established rules already in place for third party defense so I expect the court to just follow those.

I do think that some information could possibly come out of the geofence report that was done and the list of names that was provided by the FBI agent. That’s definitely a wait-and-see though.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

They have video. I don't understand why you think the man approaching on video, on the bridge isn't the speaker of G, DTH?

As he's approaching Abby says (paraphrasing) Can't we keep going? and Libby answers, The trail ends. He gets close enough to the girls that Abby says (paraphrasing), Is that a gun? He has a gun. Then the man says, "Guys" Libby mutters, Umm. The next thing you hear is same guy voice, "Down the hill".

How is that NOT the same man that was just videoed crossing the bridge towards them? I don't see how that's in question?

I just don’t take things as facts unless there is actual evidence of it being a fact. It doesn’t mean that I think it’s impossible. I just don’t think it’s the only possible option.

 

[grannygates]

Probably not the greatest choice as an expert - it seems she had already decided it was ritualistic as far back as September 2023 on CourtTV. I don't think that was with photos then either as she never got those until April 2024.

If anyone understands it to be different by all means please pitch in.

That was when the Franks was released and Court TV asked her to come on as an expert. She clarified several times (as did Vinny) that it was just her impression of the description in the filing and she had not seen any photos nor any discovery.

 

[grannygates]

It was testified to over and over in the recent hearings and discussed here a lot. Those men, after much investigations, cannot be placed anywhere bear the crime scene where the girls were murdered.
The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings
Parts 1, 2 & 3 are at this link.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

Do you know if the Murder Sheet discuss the current status of the alibis of the Rushville subjects? Or do you know if there’s a transcript online to do a keyword search?

 

[sunshineray]

I just don’t take things as facts unless there is actual evidence of it being a fact. It doesn’t mean that I think it’s impossible. I just don’t think it’s the only possible option.

I just don't understand what you mean? There is video with audio...and it was taken by one of the victims to boot. How is that not actual evidence?

 

[kae27]

It was testified to over and over in the recent hearings and discussed here a lot. Those men, after much investigations, cannot be placed anywhere near the crime scene where and when the girls were murdered.
The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings
Parts 1, 2 & 3 are at this link.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

Thanks. I am familiar with the recent hearings and was asking about the technical term "cleared" and not a second-hand interpretation. Granted, I am being persnickety about the word, but that comes with being an attorney, I guess! I'll assume that this has not been stated by LE.