Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[steeltowngirl]

Here is the link again because everyone seems to be missing it. The important bit bolded and red by me:

Indiana Jury Rules

"Excluded from public access" means NO public access to jury questionnaires or their answers (it does not say "just the answers' are excluded - it says the questionnaires are excluded). Thanks WANE lawyers for not being able to find this little bit of legality; is WANE searching for new legal advisors yet? That bit specifically refers to "Jury questionnaires" (!!) in Indiana. IE: Jury questionnaires are not included for public access.

"Individual voir dire or side bar interview" happens in the courtroom during actual jury selection and juror's responses during those phases may sometimes be kept from the public (ie: excluded from public access) too.

Good catch @Vern and thank you.
Reading the second point carefully, as you did, makes it clear that the first point is saying that the entire questionnaire is not to be made public - not just the responses - all of it. As you note, the second point is regarding responses to questions in the courtroom (vs. on the questionnaire).

 

[shonyakay]

In no world is solitary confinement in a maximum security state prison better for a defendants mental health or safety than a solitary cell in a county jail.

So there’s that.

It was stated the mental health care provided was far more superior and more frequent when RA was in maximum security.

 

[Spartygirl]

In no world is solitary confinement in a maximum security state prison better for a defendants mental health or safety than a solitary cell in a county jail.

So there’s that.

I believe he was sent to Westville for safe keeping and yes they had better medical health available than other facilities.
He had his Ipad to call and communicate with family, he had control of his overhead lights, etc.
He had others to confess to or talk with outside his cell.
In county jail...I believe he has NONE of that, he will still be a marked man and now with much less protection and less mental health care.
JMO

 

[Melted]

It was stated the mental health care provided was far more superior and more frequent when RA was in maximum security.

Solitary confinement in a maximum security prison and mental health care are literally the exact opposite of each other

 

[photographer4]

Couldn't the fact that the questionnaire was published on WANE mean that the public got access to it?

"Juror Safety and Privacy" ... thanks WANE.

if they don’t identify who it came from, like juror number etc then I do not see how this could place anyone who may end up a juror at risk? Am I missing something?

 

[photographer4]

Yes. Excellent point!

I guess we'd need to know what instructions/oaths the receivers of the questionnaires got. KWIM?

Can they be put under oath just by receiving something in the post?? Seriously asking!

 

[photographer4]

I AGREE, However, it was for HIS safety and psychiatric care that he was placed elsewhere.

But, Hey, if his Defense team thinks he is better off in a county jail, which would be more Unsafe and less help available to him,
well, they got their wish granted by the Judge who only favors the Prosecution team.
So, there's that !!!

Maybe they don’t view whatever was offered by way of medical attention at the prison as being “help” for RA or his mental health? It’s subjective. I can’t say that I’d find that setting helpful for his mental health if I were his lawyer. Mooooo.

 

[photographer4]

In my opinion only

I believe that defense submitted sufficient evidence of a 3rd party culprit at Fridays hearing.

That is the only possible thing I can think of for both defense and prosecution agreeing for the first part of the hearing to be private and then for the judge to cancel the second part.

This obviously would not exonerate RA, but it would change the states entire case.

JMO

If that happened then I imagine there will be filings this week to delay trial until other(s) are arrested etc. Would the state want to delay and try both at once? Or?

 

[photographer4]

Good catch @Vern and thank you.
Reading the second point carefully, as you did, makes it clear that the first point is saying that the entire questionnaire is not to be made public - not just the responses - all of it. As you note, the second point is regarding responses to questions in the courtroom (vs. on the questionnaire).

If it is law that these questions from the questionnaire are to be confidential between the court and the recipient, then would we expect consequences for the publishing agency via the court? Eg: a fine or something? Would this be public info? Not asking you specifically just jumping from your post is all.

If it was actually fraudulent (the doc, not the report), what recourse if any would the court have??

 

[photographer4]

It was stated the mental health care provided was far more superior and more frequent when RA was in maximum security.

More superior in what way / how did they mean this? Just curious.

 

[sunshineray]

Kindly provide a link that tells us this is what happened.

Thank you.

I'm not the OP but there's this...

This article mentions that in the first FM...

"The attorneys say that evidence showed that both girls were naked when their throats were cut and that Abby Williams was then redressed in Libby German’s clothes."

It also mentions the gun...

"In it [Libby's video], the suspected killer approaches them on an abandoned railway bridge and orders them to go “down the hill.” One of the girls can be heard saying he had a gun.

That are many other mentions about both these things that I've read and we've talked about them here so many times.

The part about the "strange" man is subjective of course but I think if either girl recognized BG, that probably one of them would have been spoken it as he approached?

Defense In Delphi Murders Claims Cult Killed Girls As ‘Ritualistic Sacrifice’

Richard Allen's lawyers described the crime scene in graphic detail in a motion arguing that cult members were responsible for killing Libby German and Abby Williams in 2017.

www.google.com

 

[photographer4]

I believe he was sent to Westville for safe keeping and yes they had better medical health available than other facilities.
He had his Ipad to call and communicate with family, he had control of his overhead lights, etc.
He had others to confess to or talk with outside his cell.
In county jail...I believe he has NONE of that, he will still be a marked man and now with much less protection and less mental health care.
JMO

I wonder what his current cell conditions are like? Why couldn’t he still have access to a tablet for entertainment / outside contact if he’s still in solitary? Just curious.

 

[sunshineray]

if they don’t identify who it came from, like juror number etc then I do not see how this could place anyone who may end up a juror at risk? Am I missing something?

It could place the fair trial at risk, IMO...needs to be looked into and verified as to where it actually came from. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe they don’t view whatever was offered by way of medical attention at the prison as being “help” for RA or his mental health? It’s subjective. I can’t say that I’d find that setting helpful for his mental health if I were his lawyer. Mooooo.

If an inmate is ramming his head into walls and drinking and eating from the toilet, you're saying whatever psychiatric and medical help the prison had and gave him was not helpful at all? Didn't Dr W testify that RA improved. I believe the warden also testified to the same.

I wonder why after hearing all that RA was doing, if they were alarmed, why his lawyers didn't ask for him to be thoroughly evaluated? To me, that's the million dollar question. AJMO

 

[shonyakay]

Solitary confinement in a maximum security prison and mental health care are literally the exact opposite of each other

He received almost daily medical check ups and mental health care by mental health staff there.

 

[shonyakay]

More superior in what way / how did they mean this? Just curious.

At the recent hearings it was testified to that RA had more mental health resources available to him there and much more frequently at that.

 

[shonyakay]

Solitary confinement in a maximum security prison and mental health care are literally the exact opposite of each other

Are you aware that RA was given special accomodations that others were not?

I don't have a problem with that though since he was/is a pre-trial detainee.

RA was allowed family visits.
He was given a tablet that he could use anytime to listen to music, watch movies, and make phone calls.
When he broke that tablet they replaced it for him free of charge.
He was offered a T.V. but he declined it.
He had the privilege to buy new clothes, shoes, and socks. Which he did.

Poor thing.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Judge Fran Gull ordered the first part of the hearing to be behind closed doors. No reporters. No one from the public allowed in.

Moments later, Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland came out and went into a room with the families of Abby Williams and Libby German.

On Friday morning, the defense filed a motion that would shorten the length of time the Indiana Department of Correction and the Indiana Attorney General can take to respond to their requests for documents. They’re making the request so that both sides can have enough time to review those documents before the trial in October.

The prosecution also filed a motion to prevent the defense from interviewing third-party suspects under oath that the defense team said is responsible for the murders. They claim that testimony is not relevant and would not prove Richard Allen’s innocence.
Friday.

Reporter: No transparency during Delphi murders hearing - 95.3 MNC

Transparency was nonexistent in the Carroll County Court, Friday, for a status hearing on the Delphi murders case. I-Team 8’s Kody Fisher was in the court. He explains what happened. Judge Fran Gull ordered the first part of the hearing to be behind closed doors. No reporters. No one from...

www.953mnc.com

 

[Andieinsyd]

It’s a strange thing the way we treat people who are suicidal. In Australia, if someone is actively suicidal we tend to lock them in hospital psych wards, take away their phone, shoelaces, belts from bathrobes and can keep them there involuntarily so long as they are deemed a risk to themselves or others. This is not people accused of crime, this is any one of us. And public psych wards tend to not be particularly therapeutic places, but the idea is to completely remove access to any means of suicide. And it generally works, at least for the time the person is there. I’d go as far as to say that this experience can be quite traumatising for some.
Similar principal seemingly applied with RA and prison, not saying it was the right decision but do think it was deemed the safest option at the time.

 

[susane7]

I thought it was interesting that SC and BB did NOT want to do a sketch but they felt pressured to. BB's sketch looks nothing like BG in the video. Yet she described the same clothes as SC and agrees BG from the video is the man she saw.

Doug Carter and Murphy are mocked for saying they believe both sketches are the same man yet evidence clearly indicates this is the case.

I agree with all your post. Regarding the sketches, according to Murder Sheet Holeman also testified he always trought the sketches is the same person. I never gave importance to the sketches because they are just sketches, not photos but I always thought this crime was by a lone wolf, so it makes sense the sketches is the same person but from different witnesses. I don't understand the obsession with the sketches. Son of the San killer had 10, 20? different sketches and he was just a serial killer, not 20 or 30 different persons, Earons the same thing, Richard Ramirez the same, etc. They were just different sketches from the same person but from different witnesses.