Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[statt#1]

My opinion of the path at the end of the bridge is this. That is the railroad bed, and it's exactly where the orange/red metal gate was.....can't see it around the corner in that vid, simple as that. And my opinion also is, that the reason it was gated is because the private property beyond where the old rail bed passes through had issues with trespass at that spot. My opinion also is that the area beyond the gate, the rail bed, wasn't as easily passable as one might assume.

I actually studied this rail bed early on, years ago, as a potential escape route for the killer. It would have provided an escape staying in a wooded area away from easy detection, and it dumps out on to W 200 N between Pine Grove Missionary Baptist Church and PTI Machinery.

None of that would necessarily keep the girls from trying to escape around the gate, or through the woods to that private property/home, however, with a 40 caliber sig waving around at you, and some crazed lunatic murderer ordering you down the hill, when you're 13 years old or so, my guess is that the terror of that situation would preclude you from making rational decisions. In fact, fearing for your life, you'd probably do exactly as you were told. Imagine if BG/RA had already grabbed Abby by the arm, and had a firm grip on her, while he was pointing the gun at Libby, and saying "down the hill".

 

[tlcya]

one reason I have never felt there was more than one killer is that I feel it would be rather easy for one grown armed man to control two young girls. All one would need to do is exert physical control over one while threatening the other with their own death or the death of their friend.

You scream, I kill her/you.
You try to run, I kill her/you.
You don't disrobe, I kill her/you

and so forth.

They are out of view of any other witnesses, if one screams, sure others might hear and come looking for the source but one or both girls could easily be dead by the time help arrived, if it ever did.

JMO MOO

 

[shonyakay]

It really bothers me that LE is so confident in saying that the unfired round supposedly found between Libby and Abby's bodies comes from RA's gun, based on the "tool marks" left on the .40 cal round made by the guns ejector. From what I understand, tool mark identification is by no means accepted science. The science behind tool mark analysis is all funded by government law enforcement and so it tends to support the conclusions law enforcement wants to hear.

https://illinoislawreview.org/wp-content/ilr-content/articles/2011/1/Giannelli.pdf

Additionally, I believe there was no photograph of the round as it was found at the crime scene. So isn't this also a problem?

Additionally, from what I recall, the round was not found when the crime scene was still closed and controlled--it was found 3 days later after the crime scene was "released". Isn't this another problem?

LE asserting this round came from RA's pistol is an overreach on LE's part. in my opinion, and I feel that the defense will have no problems poking holes in this supposed link to RA.

I can't provide links so all of the above is JMO. Thankfully RA "confessed" to the crime numerous times (or so prison officials say) so even if the round is excluded, there should be enough to convict RA of the murders.

JMO

When Holeman questioned RA before his arrest in October 2023 he mentioned that they have had that round since February 14. He also mentioned that it was by the foot of one of the girl's, it was logged, taken, and photographed.

 

[susiQ]

When Holeman questioned RA before his arrest in October 2023 he mentioned that they have had that round since February 14. He also mentioned that it was by the foot of one of the girl's, it was logged, taken, and photographed.

I’ve heard it said previously that LE are allowed to lie in an interview/interrogation to illicit a confession? Am I mistaken?

 

[shonyakay]

I’ve heard it said previously that LE are allowed to lie in an interview/interrogation to illicit a confession? Am I mistaken?

They are allowed to lie. I guess we won't know for sure until the trial if that was or wasn't the case here.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Excellent analysis of what likely transpired.

As though Libby or Abby had time or clarity of thought to Google property records and determine if it’s better to trespass than die.

They were children, in the daytime, in an area local to them (albeit in my eyes an awful place to hang out, that rotten bridge) and confronted by the absolute worst scenario possible. They must have been cognitively incapacitated by the terror approaching them. Then physically incapacitated once the assaults began.

There was really no way out for them, IMO, and the only miracle of the day was that somehow, Libby, in extremis, managed to video BG.

JMO

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.

Highlighted by me for focus.
IMOO
I don't know where that idea comes from. Of course they didn't do that. Since the beginning many, many of us have wondered how and why they got from the bridge to the spot where they were killed. We covered almost every scenario imaginable.

What's different about discussing it now?

 

[Vaderman]

I'm beginning to think RA could confess for a 62nd time, produce videos/photos of the crime being committed, and his guilt would still be in doubt. :|

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you for posting this map; it's one I've been looking for. I was thinking it was one GH put out and the drop off time of 1:35 was of special interest to me.

Yes I think it's an early on one...before the right time was confirmed at 1:49, probably after KG's and her boyfriend's phone convo was verified by phone records.

 

[susiQ]

I'm beginning to think RA could confess for a 62nd time, produce videos/photos of the crime being committed, and his guilt would still be in doubt. :|

And I’m beginning to think that if other characters finally confessed, produced videos/photos of the crime being committed (with no RA in sight), they would still be cleared! JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

See who owns the surrounding property:

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&PageID=0

IMO the railroad owns the property from the end of the bridge to that center vertical line. The homeowner owns the area at the bottom with three blue lines.

 

[shonyakay]

Yes, thank you. That's the path I was referring to and people are claiming it isn't there. I just didn't have a link to it. IMO, if the girls would have been able to make a break at that point, I think they would have gone on down that path.

Another video that shows that path.

 

[Charlot123]

It is MOO that the murders were not ritual killings NOR were they staged to appear to be ritual killings.

Mass hysteria is a thing. People having personal grudges against others is a thing. It is MOO that those two factors are at play in this case and have been since the early days. I blame social media, reddit, etc for this instance of that phenomenon.

Hampstead Hoax - Wikipedia

Satanic panic - Wikipedia

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia

Fall River murders - Wikipedia.

I am thinking, probably. But why not only DC, but Bob Ives, seemingly a logical person able to coherently express his thoughts, called the “signatures” “non-secular”? For six years, we were thinking about “signatures”. We heard of five. Were there any? I mean, can the LE tell between a signature and a blood splatter? Was LE victims of mass hysteria? The local ones, maybe, but they sent the case to GBI. Odd.

 

[tlcya]

I am thinking, probably. But why not only DC, but Bob Ives, seemingly a logical person able to coherently express his thoughts, called the “signatures” “non-secular”? For six years, we were thinking about “signatures”. We heard of five. Were there any? I mean, can the LE tell between a signature and a blood splatter? Was LE victims of mass hysteria? The local ones, maybe, but they sent the case to GBI. Odd.

A signature crime is a crime which exhibits characteristics idiosyncratic to specific criminals, known as signature aspects, signature behaviours or signature characteristics. Where a modus operandi (MO) concerns the practical components of a crime which can also be unique to one suspect, signature aspects fulfill a psychological need and, unlike the MO, do not often change.
Signature crime - Wikipedia.

I can't speak to LE or their frame of mind and neither can anyone here. But it is MOO they were not victims of mass hysteria. IMO the public was and that is what brought in kookoo for coco puff tips about odinites and Facebook posts etc. Which LE then had to follow up.

It is MOO that they did so and found no actual evidence to link any of those suspects to this crime.

ETA I believe signatures was referring to specific elements of the crime scene but NOT that they refer specifically to blood spatter. That is a DT construct that I do not believe to be true. [edited to clarify]

 

[Willow Knight]

It is MOO that the murders were not ritual killings NOR were they staged to appear to be ritual killings.

Mass hysteria is a thing. People having personal grudges against others is a thing. It is MOO that those two factors are at play in this case and have been since the early days. I blame social media, reddit, etc for this instance of that phenomenon.

Hampstead Hoax - Wikipedia

Satanic panic - Wikipedia

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia

Fall River murders - Wikipedia.

If I may jump off your post. I strongly agree with the above, my opinion is strong. This was a sexual motivated horrific crime. Nothing I have seen or heard even remotely insinuates ritual/sacrifice killing. Nothing.

The crime shrieks of anger, sexual dysfunction by an evil, broken person. A person that has no regard for the rights of others. Was he angry he wasn't getting the respect and adoration he felt he deserved? Did he resent other men that appeared confident and content with themselves?

Did he feel the need to prove he could control?

The way these innocent young girls were murdered is unspeakable. It was close up and salvage. He is a monster. Let him have his trial, a fair trial, then should the evidence find him guilty BARD, get him off the streets and spend the rest of his pathetic life in prison. Hopefully alone.

Abby and Libby. We care.

 

[susiQ]

Edit to a previous post. Link to FM below


Was AH lying when she repeated what BH said to her, FM pg 56, throwing his former friend PW under the bus and implicating him in the murders? Is PW lying when he denies BH's narrative and then gives his own account of why he fell out with his bestie?
FM pg 17, 18

Is TH lying when she tells LE that JM borrowed her car on or around Feb 13th to visit his Vinlander (white supremest) "brothers" in Delphi or is JM lying when he said he's never been to Delphi in his life? FM pg 18. Not to mention that TH recorded 3 conversations from JM's phone where in two of them he was looking to pay money for people they could harm or kill? FM pg 19. Was TH fabricating when she said, JM & BH are two of the most violent men she has ever known? FM pg 19. Of course, this is her "opinion" but may well be based in fact. Was EF lying when he identified himself as having been on a bridge where two girls were murdered, and AW was a pain in the *** and troublemaker to his sister MJ? FM pg 91 Or when he told her that he gave her horns? FM pg 98 <modsnip>
I believe EF was telling the truth about where he was and why. MOO Personally, I feel he was duped into believing he was being "initiated" into the Vinlander "brotherhood." MOO TH spoke of "blood in and blood out" meaning acceptance into the secret group. FM pg 19 How sad that he got mixed up (likely early in his life) with people like JM and RAbr.
FM pg 19

Many will discount all this "circumstantial evidence" yet champion that RA can indeed be convicted on the flimsy circumstantial evidence they have on him. The problem as I see it, is there's much more convincing circumstantial evidence pointing to third party actors than RA. I believe if JG denies a SODDI defense, this will most assuredly be appealed.
Everything that is not linked is MOO.


Attach files


Post


Memorandum in Support of Motion for Franks Hearing.pdf
Supplemental Motion for Franks Hearing.pdf FM2
Defendants Additional Franks Notice.pdf FM3

 

[Willow Knight]

Unfortunately, BB and SC’s descriptions in no way align. Two different men. SC reported seeing a muddy man (not bloody) wearing a tan jacket (not blue). This is part of the discovery. FM pg 115,116. Whatever one thinks of the FM, one cannot deny a taped interview that will likely come into evidence at trial. Someone lied on the PCA and this will be exposed. JMHO

All my opinion.

I do not believe the two witnesses saw two different men. BG had a tan top under his blue jacket, IMO by seeing the image of BG on Libby's phone. One witness saw BG when he had his blue jacket on, the other saw BG with the blue jacket off. IMO Or BG's blue jacket was open in front and the tan was showing in front.

Yes, let's wait for trial and the witness to testify. To imply we, the public, have heard all interviews by all witnesses is simply not true. To state someone lied on the PCA based on the FM is questionable, is this the same FM that stated one victim was hung from a tree?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I’ve heard it said previously that LE are allowed to lie in an interview/interrogation to illicit a confession? Am I mistaken?

No, you are not mistaken. The only exception is LE is not allowed to lie to a juvenile in a few states, and Indiana just passed that law last year IIRC. No link, just my knowledge of factual information.
AMOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

No, you are not mistaken. The only exception is LE is not allowed to lie to a juvenile in a few states, and Indiana just passed that law last year IIRC. No link, just my knowledge of factual information.
AMOO

I found that shocking. I thought that was just something they did in the movies.

https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/indiana-police-will-no-longer-be-able-to-lie-to-children-to-gain-confessions/

 

[susiQ]

No, you are not mistaken. The only exception is LE is not allowed to lie to a juvenile in a few states, and Indiana just passed that law last year IIRC. No link, just my knowledge of factual information.
AMOO

Thank you! Although, I find this shocking! JMHO

 

[shonyakay]

Highlighted by me for focus.
IMOO
I don't know where that idea comes from. Of course they didn't do that. Since the beginning many, many of us have wondered how and why they got from the bridge to the spot where they were killed. We covered almost every scenario imaginable.

What's different about discussing it now?

I believe the OP you were replying to was posting this in reply of someone who mentioned that Libby may have been concerned about trespassing that day when she was in fear for her life.