Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[mrjitty]

Maybe it's like that time the defence omitted to mention to the Judge that MW was a trusted consultant on the Franks motion both in chambers and in filings.

My position is we can't resolve any of this without the source exhibits, but i certainly am sceptical of any bare claims made in motions because they misrepresented many other things like the FBI BAU report and Prof Turco.

IMO you don't do this if you want to have credibility with a Judge.

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

Which videos showed the march of the girls? I've never seen or heard that rumor on any MSM sites. Much appreciated to see that myself.

See #759 by FrostedGlass. I myself can't link, no access.

 

[steeltowngirl]

*Gray Hughes reenactment in linked article.*

Mike Patty told ABC News America that he was proud of both girls, and that although they could not save themselves from the killer, “They didn’t leave each other’s side.

“I don’t know what happened out there that day.

“If there was a chance or opportunity for one to break off or split or make a break for it or whatever.

“But I look at it as you know two young soldiers that covered each other’s back.

“Two best friends … I wouldn’t leave my best friend’s side. and neither did they.”

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/eerie-video-recreates-murdered-teen-girls-last-moments-with-killer/news-story/a72c48b196082eab2ba6c87331edbffd

 

[FrostedGlass]

When videos and theories were created with the march of the girls, going down the hill and crossing the creek, LE (forgot the one officer's name) said, it was wrong and was not, what happened. So I still wonder, what was wrong about the route of their march. Or did they (LE) lie about it?

I wonder about that, too. The reenactments are pretty well laid out; so what are we missing?

 

[FrostedGlass]

While a man had a gun pointing at their heads? Why do people keep speculating the young girls 'could have' made a break for it? They were babies facing a vicious armed killer.He wasn't going to let them run down a garden path and escape.

Did you miss the part where I said:
"IMO, if the girls would have been able to make a break at that point, I think they would have gone on down that path."?

 

[girlhasnoname]

It really is refreshing to read a Motion that spells out why this 3rd party nonsense is just that...nonsense.

<snipped>

The defense, in several hours of presentation of evidence, supplemented by numerous documents and depositions, failed to present any evidence that links Odinism, BH, PW or any of the individuals listed in the State’s Motion in Limine to these murders.

Adobe Acrobat

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

RSBM

On or about is standard legal jargon, in my experience.

On Or About Definition

www.nolo.com

Yes, but it is used when there is uncertainty. If there was a factual date, they would state the factual date.

MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

I thought she was one the people the D wanted to depose again, so she already had been, and the prosecution was calling it harassment?

I only saw her own attorney's motion to quash, which objected on the basis of legal rules such as the required ten day notice. Harassment wasn't mentioned there afaik.

However, the prosection did call it harassment in the motions to quash the D depositions of the following: PW, NW, Leazenby, and expert David Schilling.

 

[girlhasnoname]

What's this about? Anybody know?

Makes more sense to me when you see the list of attorneys.

08/28/2024

Order Issued At request of counsel, Court orders the Clerk of Carroll County to withdraw the appearances of the attorneys delineated in the order, as they were entered as intervenors or for a limited purpose. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn Noticed: Auger, Jennifer Jones Order Signed:

 

[m00c0w]

If a witness says she thinks it might have been blood, isn't that OK, if the blood is not the ONLY thing she was testifying to. If she is also identifying the man she saw walking, with either mud or blood all over him, saying he is ALSO the man in the BG video, I'd think that might be important factually?

Even if it was the only thing she stated to the officer, it would be fine. The “fact” in question would be that she told the interviewing officer X, Y, or Z.

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

Makes more sense to me when you see the list of attorneys.

View attachment 527679

Why would Kevin Greenlee be named? I understand the relationship with the others but Kevin Greenlee?

Where are our legal friends this morning that can help us with this new document?

 

[katydid23]

I don't understand your argument. Here is what the defense team wrote in the FM. The idea that the man seen walking by SC would have blood on him is likely supported by this statement by the FBI's search for RL:

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

(snip)
"Because of the nature of the Victim's wounds it is nearly certain the perpetrator of the crime would have gotten blood on his person/clothing."

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

Pg 24
(snips)
"The evidence will also show that Liggett just flat out lied about what he (Liggett) claimed Sarah Carbaugh told him in 2017 concerning a man walking down the road near the murder scene. For Liggett’s timeline to work, Liggett needed Sarah Carbaugh to describe a man walking down the road wearing a blue jacket, who had blood covering his clothing. However, in 2017 Sarah did not say these things. This did not prevent Liggett from affirming under oath that Sarah Carbaugh did say those things."

"In fact, what Sarah Carbaugh actually told Liggett in 2017, was that she (Carbaugh) observed a man walking down the road wearing a tan coat whose clothes were muddy. Nowhere did Carbaugh claim in 2017 that the man she observed was wearing a blue coat. Nowhere did Carbaugh claim in 2017 that the man she observed was wearing bloody clothes. Nowhere. This truth about what Sarah Carbaugh actually told Liggett in 2017 blows up Liggett’s timeline, which is the likely reason Liggett failed to include this information in his affidavit."

OK, but who is it that is being quoted here and claiming that SC never said what Liggett claimed? Is it one of the D attorneys making that accusation?

Because the court has the full video interviews and ruled that Liggett did not lie about that. So I will go with the court's decision here because I do not think a judge would lie about what they heard on the video interview. IMO MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Why would Kevin Greenlee be named? I understand the relationship with the others but Kevin Greenlee?

Where are our legal friends this morning that can help us with this new document?

I think Greenlee registered an appearance back in 2023 when he requested all those documents that should have been public but were held under seal. Then Judge Gull released a bunch of them after redaction.

So this is cleaning up the record of those attorneys that will no longer be making appearances, I believe.

 

[girlhasnoname]

See #759 by FrostedGlass. I myself can't link, no access.

Thanks,

This article was first released in 2019, with an interesting update paragraph dated Oct 31, 2022 about RA's arrest. A lot had changed from the original article four years later which I'll add the snip here for clarity.

<snipped>

Delphi Murders Update 2022​

On October 31, 2023, at a press conference, Indiana State Police, the United States Marshals Service and the Carroll County Prosecutors Office announced that an Indiana man, Richard Allen, was arrested the week prior in connection with the murder of German and Williams. Allen, 50, of Delphi, has been charged with two counts of murder. No other details about the case were released. Allen entered a not guilty plea at an initial hearing. He is being held without bond.

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why would Kevin Greenlee be named? I understand the relationship with the others but Kevin Greenlee?

Where are our legal friends this morning that can help us with this new document?

IANAL but I would say because they filed Motions at one time and are no longer part of the case Intervenors or Limited Appearances. KG is a lawyer who filed a Motion on behalf of TMS.

moo

EBM: Added for clarity

 

[katydid23]

Did you miss the part where I said:
"IMO, if the girls would have been able to make a break at that point, I think they would have gone on down that path."?

No, I didn't miss that part. Which is why I said 'speculation' about the girls being able to make a break. They had a gun to their heads...

 

[TTF14]

I don't think it's been said but I believe she's been deposed once.

I don’t think so. Or if they have we have no way of knowing. IMO.

 

[shonyakay]

Would the kidnapper want to walk two girls at gunpoint towards private property and driveways?

Imo, I don't believe the girls were targeted in advance except when BG seen them on the bridge and saw an opportunity to trap them basically.

I don't think this act was totally thought through by him. I think it was more a crime of opportunity that day.

He led them "Down the Hill" which is by that path. Probably to just quickly get them off the bridge into the closest wooded area out of view from the bridge and that path to SA them. When you cut across that path and keep walking you get closer to the water. That particular area would have been kind of hard to see from the bridge and that path.

My opinion may change after hearing testimony at RA's trial though because I need to know if he regularly carried a gun or not.

Or if he often wore his jacket to work which could explain why he had a box cutter with him.

I need to know about his browser history. Was he looking at things like forced SA with or without elements of murder?

What are your thoughts on where BG went after BB saw him on the 1st platform before the girls arrived at the bridge?

Do you think he left the bridge and walked back in the direction BB did and happened to see the girls on the trail after having been dropped off?

Or do you think he went further across the bridge to the other end and then when the girls proceeded to walk toward the end of the bridge
he then started walking back across the bridge turned back and went after the girls?

 

[WildHuncher]

He said he was on the bridge.
He’s confessed with details over 61 times.
He put himself in those clothes along with the too long pants.
It doesn’t matter whether people think it looks like him or not.
He’s still on that bridge. Nobody can take him off.

View attachment 527587


Edit: edit
Edit: can’t spell either

I can see the outline of his Sig Sauer printing through his jacket. Not everyone does and I wasn’t the first to spot it. Can’t unsee it now, though.

 

[justtrish]

Yes, but it is used when there is uncertainty. If there was a factual date, they would state the factual date.

MOO

I think the only reason they can't state Feb 13th is because there was not a witness that can say that is exactly when they took their last breath. What if it was 12:01am on the 14th when one of the girls took their last breath, then somehow the defense would say something was not "factual" because she didn't pass on the 13th. I think it makes sense to use that wording, not because anyone thinks they were brought back to the location and killed on the 14th, but because there is not a witness to state that the exact time they ceased to breath was in fact on the 13th.

Imo, I don't believe the girls were targeted in advance except when BG seen them on the bridge and saw an opportunity to trap them basically.

I don't think this act was totally thought through by him. I think it was more a crime of opportunity that day.

He led them "Down the Hill" which is by that path. Probably to just quickly get them off the bridge into the closest wooded area out of view from the bridge and that path to SA them. When you cut across that path and keep walking you get closer to the water. That particular area would have been kind of hard to see from the bridge and that path.

My opinion may change after hearing testimony at RA's trial though because I need to know if he regularly carried a gun or not.

Or if he often wore his jacket to work which could explain why he had a box cutter with him.

I need to know about his browser history. Was he looking at things like forced SA with or without elements of murder?

What are your thoughts on where BG went after BB saw him on the 1st platform before the girls arrived at the bridge?

Do you think he left the bridge and walked back in the direction BB did and happened to see the girls on the trail after having been dropped off?

Or do you think he went further across the bridge to the other end and then when the girls proceeded to walk toward the end of the bridge
he then started walking back across the bridge turned back and went after the girls?

I think once BB turned around to head back toward her car, BG walked the same direction as BB.. he left the bridge and then either walked slowly or he made it to the bench and sat down, once Abby and Libby passed him (weather he was still walking or sitting on the bench), he then followed them. He would not have the advantage of knowing there was nobody else back by the bridge and he could also watch behind him to see if anyone else was coming along from that direction. I think the girls found him creepy and maybe that is why the proceeded all the way across the bridge. I suspect they thought this older man wouldn't cross the bridge, but then he did and THAT was what really sent the alarm bells off. He was already creepy (probably for similar reasons the girl that was part of the group of girls that passed him near Freedom Bridge felt he was creepy) and now he was walking toward them on that remote end of the MHB.

I don't think he crossed the bridge to the other side until the girls did. I don't think he'd try to pass by them and then turn around to come back while on that bridge. I think if he was on the other side and started walking toward them, they could have walked back toward the beginning of the bridge and the risk would be that others would come walking down the trail and he'd have zero control over that or them.

All my opinion.