Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[mrjitty]

Not unless there is corroborating evidence to support the confession. Their prime suspect made 60+ confessions and is known to have been on the bridge with the victims----so that other confession is moot.

Not wanting to get in the weeds, but the D did not even produce the witness or make the argument in their written summary in support after the hearing. So why would the Judge take into account arguments that the defence didn't even make?

This is the whole problem with the Franks omnibus and various motions to dismiss - there are lots of things claimed that the D has not produced any evidence for. Then they quietly abandoned those arguments at the hearing ...

MOO

 

[statt#1]

Perhaps the person is already in jail.

"statt#1 said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that if SODDI, and there is evidence to that fact, then why hasn't SODDI been named and/or arrested? Why hasn't DT, Prosecution, FBI, ISP, or any other authority brought charges against this person?

My opinion on the matter, NODDI.....NO other dude did it "

Am I really to believe that no LE, FBI, Attorney, or any other player in this case that had direct evidence of another player's involvement in these murders would keep that information from coming to light? Why would they do that? Who would protect the identity of another murderer in this case? I don't get it.

 

[Salah11]

I just hope he pleads guilty to avoid delaying this even further. He needs to take responsibility and deal with the consequences of what he has done. He has already confessed 60+ times, so it shouldn’t be too much of a hardship.
If he doesn't do the right thing, then get rid of those defence attorneys and actually get people who have his best interests at heart because they certainly do not. Also, anybody else RA gets in can not do a worse job at this stage, so it's a no-lose situation.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

"statt#1 said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that if SODDI, and there is evidence to that fact, then why hasn't SODDI been named and/or arrested? Why hasn't DT, Prosecution, FBI, ISP, or any other authority brought charges against this person?

My opinion on the matter, NODDI.....NO other dude did it "

Am I really to believe that no LE, FBI, Attorney, or any other player in this case that had direct evidence of another player's involvement in these murders would keep that information from coming to light? Why would they do that? Who would protect the identity of another murderer in this case? I don't get it.

I saw when you posted that before and skipped over answering; but since you asked again...

I've read Indiana's exoneration cases and I wonder the same thing myself. "Why would anyone do that?"

Browse the National Registry of Exonerations

www.law.umich.edu

 

[statt#1]

I saw when you posted that before and skipped over answering; but since you asked again...

I've read Indiana's exoneration cases and I wonder the same thing myself. "Why would anyone do that?"

Browse the National Registry of Exonerations

www.law.umich.edu

That's a good link, but still, in my mind doesn't answer the question. Maybe I'm just missing the point completely. Help me out here Exactly where is the evidence? And why is it being kept from coming to light? You know, the evidence that someone other than the accused murdered these girls? I opine it's not out there, and never came to light, because there is none.

"Am I really to believe that no LE, FBI, Attorney, or any other player in this case that had direct evidence of another player's involvement in these murders would keep that information from coming to light? Why would they do that? Who would protect the identity of another murderer in this case? I don't get it."

 

[Salah11]

Are RA lawyers in on the conspiracy as that would explain why they have done such a poor job so far?

IMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

That's a good link, but still, in my mind doesn't answer the question. Maybe I'm just missing the point completely. Help me out here Exactly where is the evidence? And why is it being kept from coming to light? You know, the evidence that someone other than the accused murdered these girls? I opine it's not out there, and never came to light, because there is none.

"Am I really to believe that no LE, FBI, Attorney, or any other player in this case that had direct evidence of another player's involvement in these murders would keep that information from coming to light? Why would they do that? Who would protect the identity of another murderer in this case? I don't get it."

That whole issue you're talking about is now OT (my understanding)

 

[girlhasnoname]

I just hope he pleads guilty to avoid delaying this even further. He needs to take responsibility and deal with the consequences of what he has done. He has already confessed 60+ times, so it shouldn’t be too much of a hardship.
If he doesn't do the right thing, then get rid of those defence attorneys and actually get people who have his best interests at heart because they certainly do not. Also, anybody else RA gets in can not do a worse job at this stage, so it's a no-lose situation.

MOO

In a perfect world, but I don't see it happening here. I always thought S&L would have done a far better job at defending RA than Rozzi and Baldwin.

JMO

 

[Willow Knight]

I've said before when discussing this particular item that I do believe it was 'his trophy'.

I also think that while he was in the frenzy of committing the crime he forgot that he racked his weapon as recorded when 'on the bridge', so he racked it a second time at the crime scene itself for whatever reason. Then saved that second racked bullet as his 'trophy' (a little bit of 'this is the bullet I controlled them with' and I can revisit it anytime). He just didn't realize that he ejected the first one onto the ground between Libby and Abby when he did so.

So the bullet taken from the wooden keepsake box should be a match for the bullet found at the crime scene?

 

[iamshadow21]

So the bullet taken from the wooden keepsake box should be a match for the bullet found at the crime scene?

It depends on things we don't know.

Was the keepsake bullet cycled through a gun? The same gun?

Was the keepsake bullet the same kind of ammunition? Calibre, brand, batch?

Calibre matches - both were .40 cal, but I don't think we know the rest.

LE will know these things, but at this point, we don't.

 

[Salah11]

In a perfect world, but I don't see it happening here. I always thought S&L would have done a far better job at defending RA than Rozzi and Baldwin.

JMO

I agree


It feels like Rozzi and Baldwin were more concerned with the social media aspect and getting those people on side than actually sitting down and finding some concrete evidence of what they were claiming which has backfired spectacularly. IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

I saw when you posted that before and skipped over answering; but since you asked again...

I've read Indiana's exoneration cases and I wonder the same thing myself. "Why would anyone do that?"

Browse the National Registry of Exonerations

www.law.umich.edu

Wouldn’t it be interesting to know how many wrongful convictions were a result of juries being presented with hearsay, speculation, rumors, conjecture or theory? Then perhaps it will become clear why only admissible evidence is allowed in the courtroom.

ETA
Hypothetical, say the defense presents a SODDI theory and RA is acquitted. Doesn’t it stand to reason the public perceives the SODDI is the guilty party and justice to be served, that person ought to face charges accordingly? But wait, there’s no admissible evidence upon which to base a conviction, only hearsay, speculation, rumors, conjecture and theory. The SODDI has no way of ever being exonerated. MOO

 

[SouthEnd]

IMO and from the cases I have followed, most wrongful convictions are associated with tunnel vision from LE early on the case. Majority of false convictions come from juveniles. I don't see most of the markers in RA's case, if anything it would be the one case that breaks the mold if it is somehow proven to be a false confession that leads to wrongful conviction, IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why would you be happy about a defendant's lawyers "sinking him before getting to trial"? Excellent chance for a verdict being overturned on appeal. I want the guilty party or parties found guilty by the book, that leaves no doubt about his guilt OR the lawfulness of how everything was obtained, how he was housed, etc. And I want the entire thing to stick once and for all.

I don't believe RA can appeal based on ineffective counsel as that was brought up during the SCOIN Oral Arguments in January by one of the SCOIN Judges to RA's Defense Attorney Leeman. He said it was a waived issue or would be at approx the 1:06 min mark during a YouTube posting of the actual videoed and audio recorded session.

I cannot link it here because what I listened to and saw it from is an unapproved WS source that has some conversation before the recording is played, but there is a complete audio and video recording of the entire Oral Argument session out there.

MOO

EBM: Added clarification

 

[girlhasnoname]

So the bullet taken from the wooden keepsake box should be a match for the bullet found at the crime scene?

Possibly, I don't know if we can say that definitively yet, but it is unusual to have the same caliber unspent bullet in a keepsake box on your MBR dresser IMO.

 

[shonyakay]

At the hearings I think NM gave a preview as to what RA's confessions contain...

He tried to SA the girls but ended up murdering them before that could happen. He used a box cutter as the murder weapon. He covered the girls with sticks to try to hide them.

 

[shonyakay]

Does anyone here know where the pickup spot was that DG was suppposed to pick the girls up at?

 

[ClearAhead]

I agree


It feels like Rozzi and Baldwin were more concerned with the social media aspect and getting those people on side than actually sitting down and finding some concrete evidence of what they were claiming which has backfired spectacularly. IMO

Your comment reminds me of something that was mentioned on the recent MS podcast. I’m probably not quoting it 100% correctly but it got me thinking...

Some might believe Baldwin and/or Rossi are the greatest defense attorneys in the world and walk on water, but the fact is regardless of a person’s perception of them, it is not synonymous to whether RA is actually guilty or innocent of the crimes he’s accused of committing. The court simply assigned them to defend an indigent client, they did not choose him.

So I do wonder if people who defend RA are truly convinced of his innocence or if they’re defending the reputations of B&R? And if RA is found guilty, that doesn’t necessarily prove B&R are lousy attorneys. A conviction is simply a matter of overwhelming evidence.

Conversely, if R&B are brilliant attorneys, does that mean RA must’ve been wrongly accused and deserves to walk — if he indeed committed the murders of Libby and Abby?

Just something to think about…..

MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Does anyone here know where the pickup spot was that DG was suppposed to pick the girls up at?

The same place they were dropped off at, across from the Mears farm. Access to that area has since been closed as it was private property.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree


It feels like Rozzi and Baldwin were more concerned with the social media aspect and getting those people on side than actually sitting down and finding some concrete evidence of what they were claiming which has backfired spectacularly. IMO

I think they are heavily influenced by the recent Karen Read strategy and the Barry Morphew dismissal in 2022

The former strategy we have discussed. The later approach was to attempt to overwhelm the court and prosecution with misleading and sprawling motions.

I think Scott Reisch is correct that they over litigated it whereas in the Morphew case the defence was much more skilled in bamboozling the court about discovery violations and supposed alternate suspects.

MOO