Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[mrjitty]

Wouldn’t this be excuses RA’s defense should’ve been presenting to the court if they had any merit? As the D didn’t, neither disclosure nor medications were a suspected cause for his confessions. (Of note, only mention of anything significant preceding his confessions was he had found religion.) The D blamed the confessions on his incarceration and suggested it should be considered coercion by the state. The Judge disagreed and ruled the confessions are in.

Judge rules accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's alleged confessions can be used as trial evidence

A judge ruled multiple confessions that Richard Allen allegedly made in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in 2017 can be used as evidence at trial.

abc7chicago.com

“The statements given by the defendant were unsolicited by any of the individuals and were voluntarily given without coercion or interrogation," Special Judge Fran Gull wrote in the ruling. "The evidence shows he specifically sought out the Warden by written communication he initiated, and verbal statements he offered to the guards, inmates, mental health professionals, and medical personnel."

I think you've nailed the issue.

The factors like psychosis etc go to the weight the jury will ultimately give these confessions, but they don't make the confessions involuntary - and I guess that is why the D did not appear to make that argument.

Just as a question of common sense, I think you are going to struggle with the idea confessions to wife/mum/doctor are 'involuntary' - even in a context of incarceration.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Can you please site a source for this?

This is extremely irresponsible to post without a source in my opinion.

It was mentioned at the hearings in the Holeman testimony by Defense Attorney Rossi actually. Lines12 to19 on page 15 in the link below.

I know I read it somewhere else and Holeman just rings a bell on being the source. I'll try and keep looking for that one too.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[sunshineray]

I’d be more convinced if (when) someone finally asks if RA began to confess before or after he received disclosure, and when his mental health issues are better examined and detailed (eg: had he had medications? Which? When? Given by whom? Why? What amount? Side effects that are common? Rare but can happen etc). Moo. If we are going to lock someone up and throw away the key then hopefully it’s an airtight case that jurors and the victims family can feel ok with down the road. I can’t think of anything worse than possibly feeling reservations or wondering if the guy convicted is the right guy.

In Harshman's testimony he mentions a specific date of March 21, 2023 as the beginning of RA's come to God moment. Then Harshman testifies that a few days after the confessions started.

Lines 12 to 25 on page 9 on through pages 10-11
in the linked pdf.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/delphi-3-day-hearing-dectective-brian-harshman-testimony-pdf.529492/

 

[Melted]

I could very easily see this happening just based on how many people I have seen online who do not believe RA is guilty at all, vs how many believe he is - based only on whatever has been made public to date (erroneously or otherwise) by either side! moo

To be fair, at this point I don’t think RA is guilty.

I believe that could easily change once I hear the states case.

A lot of people are strictly basing his innocence off the lack of publicly available information.

For me personally, following this case since day one. It’s a gut feeling, I believe he possibly played a role in it but I don’t think he was the killer.

 

[sunshineray]

I think you've nailed the issue.

The factors like psychosis etc go to the weight the jury will ultimately give these confessions, but they don't make the confessions involuntary - and I guess that is why the D did not appear to make that argument.

Just as a question of common sense, I think you are going to struggle with the idea confessions to wife/mum/doctor are 'involuntary' - even in a context of incarceration.

MOO

Yes I agree. And Harshman's testimony bears it out that it was shortly after RA's come to God moment on March 21, 2023 that RA began confessing. I think at trial the specifics of that change of heart will be laid out in great detail.
I just recently posted the line numbers and pages Harshman talks about this during his hearing testimony. MO

Edit: here they are again

Lines 12 to 25 on page 9 on through pages 10-11 in the linked pdf.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/delphi-3-day-hearing-dectective-brian-harshman-testimony-pdf.529492/

 

[shonyakay]

It was mentioned at the hearings in the Holeman testimony by Defense Attorney Rossi actually. Lines12 to19 on page 15 in the link below.

I know I read it somewhere else and Holeman just rings a bell on being the source. I'll try and keep looking for that one too.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

Thanks for posting this. I had posted before that I was pretty sure that there was a statement about his daughter's friend having been talked to.
Since it was stated right after the box cutter information from Holeman, I assumed that is what Holeman talked to the daughter's friend about. With the transcript, now I see that it could just mean any thing RA said while in DOC.
Btw, my comment was deleted because when I posted it I couldn't post a link to the source because it is unapproved here.

 

[shonyakay]

To be fair, at this point I don’t think RA is guilty.

I believe that could easily change once I hear the states case.

A lot of people are strictly basing his innocence off the lack of publicly available information.

For me personally, following this case since day one. It’s a gut feeling, I believe he possibly played a role in it but I don’t think he was the killer.

The first time I saw RA's mug shot picture when he was arrested, I thought, that don't look like bridge guy.
I guess I was expecting a physical match to be obvious right away. However, RA appears to have been heavier in 2019 as opposed to pictures of him in 2016. Also the BG video is so grainy that the man looks different in almost every frame even though we know it is the same man during the video. At some points BG in the video looks older, at other times younger.
When the PCA came out I believed RA was guilty
based on the timeline that he gave via Dulin's report.
Ever since then the evidence/testimony keeps leading towards him, not away from him imo.

 

[sunshineray]

Perhaps it’s this?

BBM

Richard Allen reportedly made ‘confessions’ to inmates, guards; attorneys say he was in ‘state of psychosis’

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Richard Allen reportedly made “incriminating statements to both inmates and guards” during his time in prison awaiting his double-murder trial. His attorneys want…

fox59.com

“Allen also reportedly expressed sorrow to another inmate over “molesting Abby, Libby and others which he specifically named.”

Thanks ClearAhead for finding this!
Now it makes sense to me. Reading this and then Holeman's recent hearing testimony transcript where Attorney Rossi's mentions RA's daughter's friends. It was just in my mind it clicked, remembering somewhere hearing RA had mentioned molesting others. So just my brain function thinking it was all from one statement and now my opinion putting the two together as possibly connected but separate statements. AJMO